M73 - Fowl Play - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[BusinessLamp]

like it doesn't seem like there's any way for me to productively engage or defend myself. i could spend the time trying to solve myself but it seems like it'll be largely ignored

[President Eden]

idk im annoyed the last pages or whatever have seemed super clique-ish between chaqa/eden/sabi in a way that’s unfun

well, in the midst of all that, I wrote quite a bit attempting to narrow things down and solve the game which had nothing meaningful to do with either Chaqa or Sabi (some analysis of them, but not singling them out to the expense of everyone else).

I cannot help that Sabi cannot help but reply to anything which even lightly tangentially mentions them and turns the entire thing into a personal indictment of them.

my vote is entirely rhetorical to make the point that a townie going back and declaring things they’ve done “so sus” is 100% counterproductive.

[BesharamSabi]

like it doesn't seem like there's any way for me to productively engage or defend myself. i could spend the time trying to solve myself but it seems like it'll be largely ignored

That's fair.

##Unvote

[BesharamSabi]

idk im annoyed the last pages or whatever have seemed super clique-ish between chaqa/eden/sabi in a way that’s unfun

well, in the midst of all that, I wrote quite a bit attempting to narrow things down and solve the game which had nothing meaningful to do with either Chaqa or Sabi (some analysis of them, but not singling them out to the expense of everyone else).

I cannot help that Sabi cannot help but reply to anything which even lightly tangentially mentions them and turns the entire thing into a personal indictment of them.

my vote is entirely rhetorical to make the point that a townie going back and declaring things they’ve done “so sus” is 100% counterproductive.

OK message is clear. To be fair I have been thinking of my stupid defense of tfb since he flipped and I dunno how to explain it away.

[BesharamSabi]

Wait blamp my vote was on Flum not on you:?

[BusinessLamp]

idk im annoyed the last pages or whatever have seemed super clique-ish between chaqa/eden/sabi in a way that’s unfun

well, in the midst of all that, I wrote quite a bit attempting to narrow things down and solve the game which had nothing meaningful to do with either Chaqa or Sabi (some analysis of them, but not singling them out to the expense of everyone else).

I cannot help that Sabi cannot help but reply to anything which even lightly tangentially mentions them and turns the entire thing into a personal indictment of them.

my vote is entirely rhetorical to make the point that a townie going back and declaring things they’ve done “so sus” is 100% counterproductive.

OK message is clear. To be fair I have been thinking of my stupid defense of tfb since he flipped and I dunno how to explain it away.

what made you so sure tfb was town? being wrong isnt a scum-tell, its about the motivation

[President Eden]

if we want to talk about people who have gotten a massive pass

##VOTE worcej

to my knowledge this is the first vote cast on worcej the entire game

[BesharamSabi]

well, in the midst of all that, I wrote quite a bit attempting to narrow things down and solve the game which had nothing meaningful to do with either Chaqa or Sabi (some analysis of them, but not singling them out to the expense of everyone else).

I cannot help that Sabi cannot help but reply to anything which even lightly tangentially mentions them and turns the entire thing into a personal indictment of them.

my vote is entirely rhetorical to make the point that a townie going back and declaring things they’ve done “so sus” is 100% counterproductive.

OK message is clear. To be fair I have been thinking of my stupid defense of tfb since he flipped and I dunno how to explain it away.

what made you so sure tfb was town? being wrong isnt a scum-tell, its about the motivation

Because he seemed like his usual self. He's always slightly scummy when town, always smug and arrogant and never really answers peoples question. Add in the factor he appeared to want me to formulate opinions/reads better (which made me think he wanted me to be better and not because he was buddying me).

Also out of game friend bias made me explain away his behavior. I think my bar for his townie Ness is low.

[Fluminator]

I take it back, I don't know how to read blamp.

But that effort wallpost makes me think he should live another day. Partly to spite Chaqa. Partly because that wifom argument he uses of "he wouldn't do that as scum".
I think his self meta argument is a complete lie and he knows it's weak, but I think he thinks he's dead anyway and it's just him using his remaining time to set up a scum meta he can manipulate in the future. I don't see him using such a weak self meta argument otherwise.

Can we kill DemonRHK actually? I think he's going to provide the least value to the pool. And self voting for reactions is the cringiest play in the book.
##Vote DemonRHK

[BesharamSabi]

I take it back, I don't know how to read blamp.

But that effort wallpost makes me think he should live another day. Partly to spite Chaqa. Partly because that wifom argument he uses of "he wouldn't do that as scum".
I think his self meta argument is a complete lie and he knows it's weak, but I think he thinks he's dead anyway and it's just him using his remaining time to set up a scum meta he can manipulate in the future. I don't see him using such a weak self meta argument otherwise.

Can we kill DemonRHK actually? I think he's going to provide the least value to the pool. And self voting for reactions is the cringiest play in the book.
##Vote DemonRHK

There needs to be a way to read out of game friends without biases in mafia tutorial

[President Eden]

Lamp, can you explain your stance on worcej for me more?

I wasn’t under the impression that you had worcej in a towncore. prior to you stating as much today, your ISO doesn’t have a lot of references to him one way or another, and at least in reading worcej’s thoughts on Maniac, I don’t see what you’re claiming is the basis of having him in your towncore. namely, you state that the basis of towncoring him is that he was reticent to kill Maniac, but in his last reads given before Jamie’s fake reveal, he had Maniac in a tier to his own just above Jamie, TFB, and Sabi as his most suspicious people.

concededly worcej has been a bit of a blind spot for me all game, so it’s plausible I missed something that would lead you to have that impression. but I definitely did not have the impression that you regarded him as so likely to be innocent, and am surprised to see you specifically appealing to him amongst several other people who I presume constitute your towncore at this point.

[worcej]

I am curious what your POE is built upon and why each of us are in it.

you may have seen it by now, but I intentionally withheld the reasoning in the hopes that we would get participation and explanation from people in the pool.

that said, do you think you shouldn’t be in it, or that other people should be further ahead of you in it? if so, why? if not… why not?

I don’t think I shouldn’t be in POE - I am just more interested what is separating it.

I am of course in the POE because I am not you, bozo, or Jamie - but I guess I am a little flabbergasted that I am lower than others who defended known scum know several times while I was 100% onboard with flipping celaph since subbing in and now just need to start analyzing TFB to find some more potential connections.

[worcej]

That’s like calling it pig bacon or cow beef

There's vegan milk, vegan bacon, vegan steak

But they are descriptors to override the default of milk, bacon, steak, etc.

Pretty Sus if you ask me

Hot take: being vegan is stupid.

Just stick at vegetarian and stop making more ridiculous artificial food to offset your need to ‘protect animals’

[worcej]

RGB 1.2.

note that these rankings ARE subject to change as things progress. I’ll try to provide one at EON to be sure that I leave you with some guidance, but this is a snapshot of the present moment and not the be-all-end-all.

1. President Eden
2. bozotheclown
3. Jamiet99uk
4. Chaqa
5. brainbomb
6. Bonatogether
7. pyxxy
8. BesharamSabi
9. Fluminator
10. DemonRHK
11. rdrivera2005
12. worcej
13. BusinessLamp

towncore. functionally unimpeachable given current information IMO. very strong presumption of innocence that would likely require some very major plot twist to occur to overcome - for instance, all of the Doc, JOAT, and Doc save from last night being in the POE.

probable town, but within POE. enough circumstantial evidence exonerating them in my mind for now, but if the game isn’t over after working through the reds, these people are where I want to look next.

POE pool. the remaining mafia are most likely among this group.

What makes Chaqa, BB, and Bona green?

If it’s based on your reads, I say that they should be blue and not explicitly green.

[BesharamSabi]

There's vegan milk, vegan bacon, vegan steak

But they are descriptors to override the default of milk, bacon, steak, etc.

Pretty Sus if you ask me

Hot take: being vegan is stupid.

Just stick at vegetarian and stop making more ridiculous artificial food to offset your need to ‘protect animals’

And for that

##VOTE worcej

[worcej]

if we want to talk about people who have gotten a massive pass

##VOTE worcej

to my knowledge this is the first vote cast on worcej the entire game

It is and I am somewhat shocked I haven’t gotten more for trying to be nicer and not as much as a dick. Usually change gets you killed.

[worcej]

But they are descriptors to override the default of milk, bacon, steak, etc.

Pretty Sus if you ask me

Hot take: being vegan is stupid.

Just stick at vegetarian and stop making more ridiculous artificial food to offset your need to ‘protect animals’

And for that

##VOTE worcej

How does a non-binary Samurai defeat their foes?

They slash them.

[worcej]

##vote sabi

Semi joke but also they’re one in my POE as potential scum still based on the celaph and TFB positions they took.

[President Eden]

What makes Chaqa, BB, and Bona green?

my reads, yea.

If it’s based on your reads, I say that they should be blue and not explicitly green.

this is a disagreement on confidence I think. green is not reserved for mechanical clears / people who more or less 100% cannot be mafia. (the underline is meant to indicate those people.) green is for people who I am comfortable enough are town that I don’t think it’s worth the risk of eroding town cohesion by considering killing them. webdip towns are notorious for tinfoiling their way into killing people who should be obviously clear on very specious reasons, so I am seeking to preempt that by explicitly building a pool of people I won’t kill, and moving on from there.

will this strategy lose to a mafia being in the green? maybe. for one I don’t expect to survive to endgame, so it won’t be up to my personal declaration that they’re in the green. for another, new information will come out, which may cast doubt on the underlying purpose of them being in green, and warrant a reexamination.

do I need to produce a plan of attack that is 100% guaranteed to win in all circumstances? no.

do I advertise this plan as such? no.

(the last two rhetorical questions are less for you and more for people who are undoubtedly naysaying this approach to the game in god chat or in their own minds right now)

[worcej]

What makes Chaqa, BB, and Bona green?

my reads, yea.

If it’s based on your reads, I say that they should be blue and not explicitly green.

this is a disagreement on confidence I think. green is not reserved for mechanical clears / people who more or less 100% cannot be mafia. (the underline is meant to indicate those people.) green is for people who I am comfortable enough are town that I don’t think it’s worth the risk of eroding town cohesion by considering killing them. webdip towns are notorious for tinfoiling their way into killing people who should be obviously clear on very specious reasons, so I am seeking to preempt that by explicitly building a pool of people I won’t kill, and moving on from there.

will this strategy lose to a mafia being in the green? maybe. for one I don’t expect to survive to endgame, so it won’t be up to my personal declaration that they’re in the green. for another, new information will come out, which may cast doubt on the underlying purpose of them being in green, and warrant a reexamination.

do I need to produce a plan of attack that is 100% guaranteed to win in all circumstances? no.

do I advertise this plan as such? no.

(the last two rhetorical questions are less for you and more for people who are undoubtedly naysaying this approach to the game in god chat or in their own minds right now)

I don’t discount your approach but just some choices notably have me confused on the logic.

I have been towning Chaqa for awhile but Bona has been drifting down on me as he stays around. I need to look closer at TFB-Bona interactions to see if my thoughts are fair or not, but my immediate reaction to TFB’s flip was to downgrade Bona as a town read