M73 - Fowl Play - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[bozotheclown]

Bozo you are not a clear either.

I don't mind being voted out. I'm VT. When I die you will see that. (or I guess Miller)

I am clear in my own mind.

Maybe you are the flipper who chose VT.

So then Maniac is clear and Jamiet is scum based off that logic....?

Maybe, but there are other possibilities.

[President Eden]

interestingly, while Maniac not flipping Janitor is concededly a partial refutation of my Janitor-under-fire theory, it could still implicate somebody like Beetlejuice or glum.

or it could just be refuted

[President Eden]

I mean, one of two things must inherently be true:
1. Jamie is mafia and was lying about the copscan (in this case Jamie is probably Flipper and was hoping he'd get lucky on picking Maniac as Miller)
2. Maniac was the Flipper who picked VT

shouldn't it be:
1. Jamie is mafia and trying to bait us into thinking that maniac was flipper? in this theory, scum are very sure that damo was an investigative pr, and with town dancing around it, jamie could live there for a while.
2. same thing?

there is added veracity to #1 stemming from the use of the Janitor role N2.

[Fluminator]

I have to ask because I haven't figured it out yet, who is beetlejuice?

[Bonatogether]

I think VT was probably the best option for the flipper to choose, because any other role would be resolved when the real PR/miller was revealed. In order for town to win, we are going to have to hit the flipper, so we are going to be dealing with inaccurate information at some point unless we lose with the flipper surviving.

Regardless of Maniac's alignment, TFB, ghug, and Sabi are all good scum candidates, so I think they all should be voted out at some point. They all independently tried to save celaph on D1 and D2. It could be just that simple.

Bozo you are not a clear either.

I don't mind being voted out. I'm VT. When I die you will see that. (or I guess Miller)

I am clear in my own mind.

Maybe you are the flipper who chose VT.

bozo you're a funny guy

[Bonatogether]

I have to ask because I haven't figured it out yet, who is beetlejuice?

the flying boat, who will show up if you say his name 5 times

[TheFlyingBoat]

I think VT was probably the best option for the flipper to choose, because any other role would be resolved when the real PR/miller was revealed. In order for town to win, we are going to have to hit the flipper, so we are going to be dealing with inaccurate information at some point unless we lose with the flipper surviving.

Regardless of Maniac's alignment, TFB, ghug, and Sabi are all good scum candidates, so I think they all should be voted out at some point. They all independently tried to save celaph on D1 and D2. It could be just that simple.

as I’m thinking about this puzzle more, maybe you are right. while VT is very “passive” in that it doesn’t let mafia make any plays, the deceptive power is pretty apparent here. we only have a good shot at working through it because of Jamie’s scan, but it even has added value there by creating some doubt about Jamie (however slight it seems to be, judging from everyone’s reactions) which could potentially be WIFOMed out.

whereas if the Flipper chooses anything else, then eventually you end up with an extra dead role that shouldn’t be there, and the deception is largely lifted.

Really? I think based on my strategic thoughts either Doc to force a 1v1 with the Doc or GF to allow the real GF to get off free post-scan are the ways to play Flipper. If not for the scan claim by Jamie would we all be this confused? Hell, would we even think he could be the flipper if not for the scan? So what does he gain if not for the scan claim induced chaos?

Chances are Flipper choosing VT is useful at best to get a miskill on one, maybe two town. Like maybe I would look pretty bad for being the original pusher of the Celaph-Maniac scum team narrative, especially given how hard I pushed it, but it would largely not inhibit the rest of the game too hard as the people who get MKed because of it aren't guaranteed to be PRs unlike the case with a forced 1v1 backed fackeclaim+flip.

The count is off, but that is about it, no?

[Bonatogether]

i have thoughts about that day but i'm keeping my mouth shut

that's why catchup is small

i think our essential situation is basically the same as it was coming into the day. game plan doesn't change for tomorrow

[TheFlyingBoat]

I have to ask because I haven't figured it out yet, who is beetlejuice?

the flying boat, who will show up if you say his name 5 times

I thought it only needed to be said only three times. Have I been appearing too often?

[Bonatogether]

I have to ask because I haven't figured it out yet, who is beetlejuice?

the flying boat, who will show up if you say his name 5 times

pyxxy notably +1ing multiple of my recent posts but not the one where i call him out for not responding to my read on him from celaph reread, still hasn't responded

[bozotheclown]

This is very rudimentary wagon analysis with no context, but the people who never voted Celaph at eod are:

Sabi
Bozo
Jamiet
Rdr

Jamiet and apparently Bozo are currently better assumed as town right now I think.

Sabi and Rdr, what be your defenses?

ghug also never voted for celaph.

Can you tell me what you think about TFB's voting record, considering he was a wagon D1 and D2?

He voted Maniac instead though who is probably scum. Ghug is looking cleaner and cleaner

TFB looked to barely be a wagon end of day 1. I'm a little sad I missed an opportunity to run him up day 1 though.

Second day being the counterwagon lessens the cred for sure, but I have a hard time believing right now all 3 wagons would be scum.

ghug avoided voting for celaph for 2 days then argued that the mafia were likely bussing celaph D2. According the PE's theory, you are probably the janitor.

[pyxxy]

part where I said some things

notably responding to boat man but not me

Okay as a first-time player, a whole bunch of y'all love to go tl;dr about entire phases and then try to snipe people for "not responding".

If you're going to snipe, post the post(s) that you think the person is dodging. This helps everyone else aka the people you're trying to convince that something is fishy re: dodging because then everyone can easily see the point you're trying to make.

Would you mind relinking your post, Bona? Pretty please

Was it your adventures Day 3?

Bona's adventures with a spreadsheet part 3: revenge of the ISO

[BesharamSabi]

For D2? I put my vote in and was gone for EOD because I was in a client meeting from 230ish-5ish central time.

I explained my D1 like a few pages ago.

Is that really your defense for D2 after what happened yesterday with Maniac?

I'm a little confused your first reaction to the flip is Jamiet is scum.
I could see someone thinking that, but considering you voted Maniac day 2 before it was cool, you probably thought he was scum initially. I would expect your first gut feeling to be Maniac was flipper, not Jamiet was scum.
Can you clarify more where you're coming from?

I was scum reading Jamiet before he claimed cop.

[pyxxy]

I have to ask because I haven't figured it out yet, who is beetlejuice?

the flying boat, who will show up if you say his name 5 times

pyxxy notably +1ing multiple of my recent posts but not the one where i call him out for not responding to my read on him from celaph reread, still hasn't responded

Do I need to tap the sign, Bona?

Why are you trying to rush me just like Blamp did?

pyxxy refreshing the thread and liking my post asking ppl to vote him instead of providing any sort of explanation

Would you rather I rush an explanation so that you can just keep hammering me now that EOD is approaching?

[Fluminator]

ghug also never voted for celaph.

Can you tell me what you think about TFB's voting record, considering he was a wagon D1 and D2?

He voted Maniac instead though who is probably scum. Ghug is looking cleaner and cleaner

TFB looked to barely be a wagon end of day 1. I'm a little sad I missed an opportunity to run him up day 1 though.

Second day being the counterwagon lessens the cred for sure, but I have a hard time believing right now all 3 wagons would be scum.

ghug avoided voting for celaph for 2 days then argued that the mafia were likely bussing celaph D2. According the PE's theory, you are probably the janitor.

I notice ghug voted you day 1. Are you sure this isn't just subconscious resentment for that?

Would it make sense for scumghug to try to swing the vote from a scum onto another scum who would appear as a miskill and be given absolutely no credit for the bus?

[BusinessLamp]

What was the thing regarding pxxy about the flipper thing that has people townreading him?

the only thing I remember is that damo made a note about pyxxy being town but something about a flipper

One selection from http://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?wo ... t=D2-&g=73:

Jamie and I in lockstep. brain needs to accept pyxxy into his towncore and together we all flourish

Pixxy comes across as pretty town to me so far, not sure the basis for Brainbomb's scumread there.

Jamie seems to be my biggest advocate that's awkward

Blamp used to love me but then we had a scuffle around my TFB quote fuckup and my questioning of his voting timings.

for the record I think you’re town at the moment lol. I didn’t really care that much about the TFB quote I was just playing bad cop to try to get a better reaction

[worcej]

I think VT was probably the best option for the flipper to choose, because any other role would be resolved when the real PR/miller was revealed. In order for town to win, we are going to have to hit the flipper, so we are going to be dealing with inaccurate information at some point unless we lose with the flipper surviving.

Regardless of Maniac's alignment, TFB, ghug, and Sabi are all good scum candidates, so I think they all should be voted out at some point. They all independently tried to save celaph on D1 and D2. It could be just that simple.

Bozo you are not a clear either.

I don't mind being voted out. I'm VT. When I die you will see that. (or I guess Miller)

I am clear in my own mind.

Maybe you are the flipper who chose VT.

I fucking love seeing bozo have a sense of humor - it's making this game experience a real treat for me lol

[pyxxy]

Jamie seems to be my biggest advocate that's awkward

Blamp used to love me but then we had a scuffle around my TFB quote fuckup and my questioning of his voting timings.

for the record I think you’re town at the moment lol. I didn’t really care that much about the TFB quote I was just playing bad cop to try to get a better reaction

...oh.

Then please tell Bona to stop bullying me

Especially if Bona is just gonna throw a bunch of stuff at me to get me to react and then just dip for the rest of the phase.

[rdrivera2005]

Interesting flip. I think the most likely explanation is Naniac is flipper as I don't see much reason for scum to fake claim a guilty on him.

But I think it's better wait for tomorrow to discuss some possibilities.

[TheFlyingBoat]

I think VT was probably the best option for the flipper to choose, because any other role would be resolved when the real PR/miller was revealed. In order for town to win, we are going to have to hit the flipper, so we are going to be dealing with inaccurate information at some point unless we lose with the flipper surviving.

Regardless of Maniac's alignment, TFB, ghug, and Sabi are all good scum candidates, so I think they all should be voted out at some point. They all independently tried to save celaph on D1 and D2. It could be just that simple.

In what world did I try to save Celaph D2? Do you not read my posts or explanations? Do you have your blinders on so tight you can't see any alternate possibilities? Occam's razor exists for a reason. Chaqa literally did the exact same thing I did for the exact same motivations, because it was the smart thing to do. I maintain a 6-6-5 EoD that ended the way it did gave us way more info than the Celaph vs me 9-8 all day you seem to have wanted.

It made Chaqa look incredibly good to me, made Blamp look better than he otherwise would have, gave possible scum targets given what we know about maniac. If we had done what you wanted, far too many town would have been able to get away with the defense pyxxy invoked for his vote on me at the end had his vote got in a few seconds earlier as we would have lost a day of good discussion and let multiple scum escape easily.

I think the overall narrative explanation (which you never bothered to engage with) I gave for who is scum and who isn't is explains the wagon actions of D1 and D2 far better than your list. I think it's possible there were some scum on the maniac wagon D2 before it melted away. Jamie strikes me as the obvious possibility if you assume that Maniac is not the flipper. Ghug strikes me as the likely possibility if you assume that Maniac is the flipper.

Chaqa would have had to be hard bussing celaph D1 and D2, which is possible but not very likely, while you avoided voting for celaph D1 and encouraged the Maniac wagon D2 by your vote and did not return to celaph until he was back in the lead and had the momentum with only 5 minutes left.

I agree, I do not think Chaqa is scum (which you would know if you actually ever read my posts). You keep claiming I "avoided" voting for Celaph, yet you completely seem to ignore any and all explanation for it. I heavily scum read him all through D1. I continued those scum reads into N1. I continued those scum reads into D2 and coupled it with an early vote. I then continuously push for the Celaph wagon the entire day. I later switch onto Maniac and EXPLICITLY say I will switch back to Celaph at EOD. When I went to post my vote, only Chaqa showed up on my screen as having voted, so in my mind I thought I was putting Celaph back in the lead from a tied wagon.

If you think Maniac is the flipper, then I don't know how you think I am scum given my posts pushing the Maniac-Celaph scum team from N1 onwards works unless you think my big brain play is to bus the Godfather, the most important scum role to keep alive and the Flipper that chose VT, a vote I would literally get zero credit for if not for the Jamie scan causing us to discuss seriously whether or not Maniac is the flipper.

If he isn't the flipper and is just a VT then there are some much bigger more obvious scum players than me. Like your scum teams just don't make sense in context and I don't get why you refuse to engage in a discussion of the narrative I posted during the day at all.