M73 - Fowl Play - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[rdrivera2005]

I will read the case later but I do know ghug was genuinely hurt by whatever happened 3 months ago. (He's mentioned it outside the game to me before)
I do not fully understand what is going on between you two tbh.

I can’t 100% speak for eden, but I can say his tone does not translate to text well. I don’t really remember what happened three months ago, but in various discussions I’ve had with eden where ghug has come up, it’s never been a discussion point, so I wonder if eden is even aware of this issue

this is true. on the point of tone, this is something that bothers me because I feel I go out of my way to be painstakingly clear about what I think. if I were mad at ghug and trying to bully him out of the game, you’d know it. I feel I very plainly stayed calm and collected and did not make it personal. you’d have to go very far out of your way to read anything else into it and come away with a contrary interpretation. and if you do that, that can’t possibly be on me. how the fuck am I supposed to account for people adding in emotion I don’t feel to reach a conclusion I don’t hold, which runs contrary to the things I did say? I feel like I’m held to this impossible standard where at all times I’m expected to know exactly what everyone is really thinking and feeling and be able to predict every last way they’re possibly going to respond and if I ever get anything wrong then it’s not just an error but an indictment of me as a person. it’s really exhausting and nobody here even comes close to living up to that, so why do I have to?

I think you keep pushing that Ghug's reaction is only because he is scum is tone deaf and that's what made Ghug to bail out.
It's only your fault? Of course not, but you should try to look from the other side, because you are still acting as you were just calling a scum play when everyone around is telling you that Ghug is really annoyed and feeling bad about that. In the end this is just a game and making other people to feel bad isn't worth to get a win.

[President Eden]

Can confirm that ghug brought up several times about the fight outside of the game so its NAI. I do think it's a tone deaf move by eden to think it's some scummy tactic

it’s curious that you think it’s tone deaf when I have no knowledge of any of this discussion or of his alignment.

knowing that I don’t know about the discussion and bearing in mind the “uneven” progression, to put it diplomatically, why would you expect me to instantly read him town and think he’s acting in good faith? that presupposes an awful lot about his alignment, IMO.

Not put him as town but don't wave him bringing up the fight as a reason he's scummy. Bringing up the fight is NAI.

You two just need to communicate.

the way he brought it up is shitty and scummy. period. that fucking matters. he brought it up to get gotcha points and try to antagonize me. there was no constructive or good faith purpose to what he did. it’s exactly what mafia would do. and on the heels of an accusation whose core theme is “ghug is doing what mafia would do in this situation,” you cannot expect me to see through that.

let me give all of you a free tip on how to persuade me. do not try to manipulate me emotionally. (unless you’re being funny that’s different, it’ll probably not work but it might) it’s a scummy fucking thing to do. it’s not what somebody trying to get to the truth does. not only is it bad practice in the game, but my default assumption will always be that if you’re opting to manipulate me emotionally instead of engaging me logically. this assumption is not always true obviously, but it serves a very valuable defensive purpose for me as it filters toxic people out of my life, and I judge the loss from it being wrong to be a price worth paying. you will never get what you want from me by trying to manipulate me emotionally and you will probably just make an incredibly annoying enemy for yourself. so I advise not doing it. thanks for coming to my ted talk

[President Eden]

I can’t 100% speak for eden, but I can say his tone does not translate to text well. I don’t really remember what happened three months ago, but in various discussions I’ve had with eden where ghug has come up, it’s never been a discussion point, so I wonder if eden is even aware of this issue

this is true. on the point of tone, this is something that bothers me because I feel I go out of my way to be painstakingly clear about what I think. if I were mad at ghug and trying to bully him out of the game, you’d know it. I feel I very plainly stayed calm and collected and did not make it personal. you’d have to go very far out of your way to read anything else into it and come away with a contrary interpretation. and if you do that, that can’t possibly be on me. how the fuck am I supposed to account for people adding in emotion I don’t feel to reach a conclusion I don’t hold, which runs contrary to the things I did say? I feel like I’m held to this impossible standard where at all times I’m expected to know exactly what everyone is really thinking and feeling and be able to predict every last way they’re possibly going to respond and if I ever get anything wrong then it’s not just an error but an indictment of me as a person. it’s really exhausting and nobody here even comes close to living up to that, so why do I have to?

I think you keep pushing that Ghug's reaction is only because he is scum is tone deaf and that's what made Ghug to bail out.
It's only your fault? Of course not, but you should try to look from the other side, because you are still acting as you were just calling a scum play when everyone around is telling you that Ghug is really annoyed and feeling bad about that. In the end this is just a game and making other people to feel bad isn't worth to get a win.

the core of my case on ghug has nothing to do with his outburst, which I concede is probably NAI based upon the new (to me anyway) info brought to light about how he felt.
my point is that if I already feel strongly that someone is mafia and then they have an unexplained no context outburst which, whether by coincidence or otherwise, looks exactly like mafia making a play to muddy the waters, I cannot fairly because expected to magically see through that. if someone thinks I’m being ridiculous here then they’re really not considering it from my POV.

[President Eden]

it’s curious that you think it’s tone deaf when I have no knowledge of any of this discussion or of his alignment.

knowing that I don’t know about the discussion and bearing in mind the “uneven” progression, to put it diplomatically, why would you expect me to instantly read him town and think he’s acting in good faith? that presupposes an awful lot about his alignment, IMO.

Not put him as town but don't wave him bringing up the fight as a reason he's scummy. Bringing up the fight is NAI.

You two just need to communicate.

the way he brought it up is shitty and scummy. period. that fucking matters. he brought it up to get gotcha points and try to antagonize me. there was no constructive or good faith purpose to what he did. it’s exactly what mafia would do. and on the heels of an accusation whose core theme is “ghug is doing what mafia would do in this situation,” you cannot expect me to see through that.

let me give all of you a free tip on how to persuade me. do not try to manipulate me emotionally. (unless you’re being funny that’s different, it’ll probably not work but it might) it’s a scummy fucking thing to do. it’s not what somebody trying to get to the truth does. not only is it bad practice in the game, but my default assumption will always be that if you’re opting to manipulate me emotionally instead of engaging me logically. this assumption is not always true obviously, but it serves a very valuable defensive purpose for me as it filters toxic people out of my life, and I judge the loss from it being wrong to be a price worth paying. you will never get what you want from me by trying to manipulate me emotionally and you will probably just make an incredibly annoying enemy for yourself. so I advise not doing it. thanks for coming to my ted talk

nice I accidentally a sentence somehow.

** if you’re opting to manipulate me emotionally instead of engaging with me logically, you probably have no argument and you probably don’t have my best interests at heart

[BesharamSabi]

You two just need to talk it out after the game.

Like actually talk it out.

[President Eden]

You two just need to talk it out after the game.

Like actually talk it out.

what alignment do you think ghug is, and why?

[BesharamSabi]

You two just need to talk it out after the game.

Like actually talk it out.

what alignment do you think ghug is, and why?

He was townie before n2 for me. Now null. His weird defense of celaph throughout D2 is odd.

[President Eden]

So there is no appeal from me to save my sorry ass.

The only two explanations right now are I’m the miller and Jamie really does have a guilty scan or I’m VT and Jamie is running some kind of play as town and believes I’m scum so much that he is banking on me flipping scum to fool mafia that he had a scan. Maybe that would’ve worked if I was scum, but I’m not.

I think no matter what I flip Jamie is now town.

I don’t understand why people are asking investigators for N2 scans. That’s just dumb.

If I had to go out on a limb, scum are Brainbomb, DemonDHK, maybe TFB.

You need to kill me now. Too many people are factoring in that I’m scum before my flip and wasting time on analysing wagons based on false information.

I don’t blame any of you for ending the life of this handsome and innocent man.

Thanks for GMing Bob and Durge. I’ve enjoyed my time as a chicken.

This is one of those rare times that a VT should keep fighting. Towns wincon is actually advanced by my self voting.

##vote Maniac ##vote End

hey, I haven’t endvoted because I want to hear more. why brainbomb, Demon, and maybe TFB? at least for me, part of what caused me to suspect you is not being able to follow your train of thought with suspects and not-suspects.

[bozotheclown]

Can confirm that ghug brought up several times about the fight outside of the game so its NAI. I do think it's a tone deaf move by eden to think it's some scummy tactic

it’s curious that you think it’s tone deaf when I have no knowledge of any of this discussion or of his alignment.

knowing that I don’t know about the discussion and bearing in mind the “uneven” progression, to put it diplomatically, why would you expect me to instantly read him town and think he’s acting in good faith? that presupposes an awful lot about his alignment, IMO.

Not put him as town but don't wave him bringing up the fight as a reason he's scummy. Bringing up the fight is NAI.

You two just need to communicate.

Everything PE said, whether correct or not, was game related. I think ghug's reaction was scum indicative and my preference would be to resolve ghug's slot today.

[BesharamSabi]

it’s curious that you think it’s tone deaf when I have no knowledge of any of this discussion or of his alignment.

knowing that I don’t know about the discussion and bearing in mind the “uneven” progression, to put it diplomatically, why would you expect me to instantly read him town and think he’s acting in good faith? that presupposes an awful lot about his alignment, IMO.

Not put him as town but don't wave him bringing up the fight as a reason he's scummy. Bringing up the fight is NAI.

You two just need to communicate.

Everything PE said, whether correct or not, was game related. I think ghug's reaction was scum indicative and my preference would be to resolve ghug's slot today.

Bozo, kindly, you don't know ghug outside of the game so I feel like you don't know what is going on outside of the game. Him bringing up the fight is NAI.

[BesharamSabi]

You can scum read me for this. I don't care.

Let's drop this.

Let ghug and Eden talk it out after the game is over.

That's all

[Chaqa]

You can scum read me for this. I don't care.

Let's drop this.

Let ghug and Eden talk it out after the game is over.

That's all

Sabi scummY

[Chaqa]

Demon, mind switching your hammer vote to Maniac?

[DemonRHK]

I have no thoughts or feelings on players or gamestate.

What soes everyone want to do for the next 32 hours?

[DemonRHK]

Demon, mind switching your hammer vote to Maniac?

I could be convinced. Maniac is scum. But right now there would need 4 more hammers.

I don't want to let this slot free back into the wild.

[DemonRHK]

Demon, mind switching your hammer vote to Maniac?

I could be convinced. Maniac is scum. But right now there would need 4 more hammers.

I don't want to let this slot free back into the wild.

3, just woke up.

[Chaqa]

Demon, mind switching your hammer vote to Maniac?

I could be convinced. Maniac is scum. But right now there would need 4 more hammers.

I don't want to let this slot free back into the wild.

I’m relatively opposed to flipping Flum today.

Like I said before, I actually thought ghug was a PR, so I’m not as convinced Flum must be scum yet.

Maniac meanwhile, needs to go, and we don’t want to waste 48 hours on it. Look what the Durga day did to momentum last time

[DemonRHK]

Demon, mind switching your hammer vote to Maniac?

I could be convinced. Maniac is scum. But right now there would need 4 more hammers.

I don't want to let this slot free back into the wild.

I’m relatively opposed to flipping Flum today.

Like I said before, I actually thought ghug was a PR, so I’m not as convinced Flum must be scum yet.

Maniac meanwhile, needs to go, and we don’t want to waste 48 hours on it. Look what the Durga day did to momentum last time

If we find the extra hammers, I will swap under protest.

If Flum is scum and he makes it to the QT, we will never get him up.

[Chaqa]

I could be convinced. Maniac is scum. But right now there would need 4 more hammers.

I don't want to let this slot free back into the wild.

I’m relatively opposed to flipping Flum today.

Like I said before, I actually thought ghug was a PR, so I’m not as convinced Flum must be scum yet.

Maniac meanwhile, needs to go, and we don’t want to waste 48 hours on it. Look what the Durga day did to momentum last time

If we find the extra hammers, I will swap under protest.

If Flum is scum and he makes it to the QT, we will never get him up.

I don’t really agree with that last bit. As long as eden is alive, Flum will hang eventually, and if eden dies, at least a few of us will make sure to honor his views.

[BusinessLamp]

@TFB why is Sabi unlikely scum

can we just use this time to have a referendum on Sabi and their alignment, thanks everyone