M73 - Fowl Play - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[Jamiet99uk]

I'm mad, man. I don't know what to tell you.

You were incredibly hurtful to me last time, you never apologized for it, and I was really trepidatious about playing with you again. I wrote up a much longer response to your wall yesterday, realized it was the same sort of escalation to your over-aggressive, bad-faith rhetoric that got us into the same position last time, and tried to disengage, especially given the way you'd already fought with someone you consider a friend and not a scourge upon the community.

I feel like I need to argue with you before you kill me en-route toa long string of miskills that lose us the game, but I also feel like doing so ensures emotional distress for everyone, because neither of us is able to let things go. The result is me being more frustrated and lashing out, but your lack of grace in dealing with me or with Chaqa is also a pretty fair thing to criticize.

this is a better attempt to sway the audience but it’s not going to work

Fuck you, man.

I'll sub out this time, I guess.

Don't kill Blamp. He's town.

Oh Ghug, come on, there is no need for that.

Take a step back, eat a banana, and think about someone you love.

[Jamiet99uk]

get out of here with this BS. Don’t try to goad me into self-defense

Assume for a moment the JOAT shot is happening tonight always.

Give me two names you would shoot.

Jamie and Sabi.

He didn't ask you.

Your name isn't Chris.

[Jamiet99uk]

get out of here with this BS. Don’t try to goad me into self-defense

Assume for a moment the JOAT shot is happening tonight always.

Give me two names you would shoot.

literally exactly what worcej said lol. Jamie or Sabi.

Well now I'm offended, Christopher.

[Jamiet99uk]

this is a weird ass goddamn game. Jamie and I havent lost our shit and everyone else has

I hate the two of you being civil to each other. I have to keep a slight scumread in the back of my head because of it.

He did post a slightly mean TikTok at me, and I suggested his voice sounds like the Zombocom voice.

Does that make you feel better?

[Jamiet99uk]

this is also in bad faith, and the last time you feigned wounds about this you were mafia trying to discredit me

President Eden, you seem to be very emotional at the moment. Is everything okay? You've had multiple exchanges with people in this game where you've either lost control of your emotions, or threatened to do so. There was your whole thing with Chaqa over the Bozo read and whatever the "Royal Guard" issue was, then your response to my commentary on your Bozo scan, and now this exchange with Ghug.

My advice? Recognise the hallucinatory nature of reality. Receive all phenomena with equanimity. Meet mistakes with forgiveness and determination. And most of all, do what you want, with love in your heart.

I feel like this is also bad faith but intentionally as a form of cheeky humor.

if you’re serious and I’m misunderstanding, I was completely level in dealing with ghug the entire time. maybe I come off differently than I think over text, but I feel like the difference between e.g. both my exchanges with ghug last night and today, vs my “exchange” (to put it lightly) with Chaqa, is really tonally clear, or should be.

I think ghug is mafia and was employing desperate emotionally manipulative tactics to try to messy up the thread enough so people would write off everything I said about him as personally invested and not worthy of real consideration. his go-to tactic when I’m on his case is to rile me up so people don’t listen to me. this time I think I recognized it for what it was and didn’t take the bait. then—possibly genuinely angry—he subbed out as a ploy to make people think he’s really super serious about it so they’ll just ignore that he’s clearly caught mafia.

Well I saw another brewing emotion-storm and it involved you again. But I guess it was Ghug being emotional, rather than you, in this case.

I hate to say it, but you may be right in that Ghug is more inclined to react like this as scum. I hope I'm wrong.

I also hope Ghug does not quit.

[Jamiet99uk]

They’ll step on your fingers as you reach the crest.
They’ll try to convince you you’re the same as the rest.
They’ll kick you and beat you for nothing at all...

But you follow the call.

Yeah.

[Chaqa]

I had Chipotle for lunch and it was very good.

[brainbomb]

I expect there is a high liklihood I die tonight and If I do, continue onward friends and gl.

[Jamiet99uk]

I had Chipotle for lunch and it was very good.

But Sabi hasn't been eliminated yet.

[worcej]

Depends on who the flipper is - I can see some bullshit like this from only a couple players.

Well, he's saying it would be celaph.

Quite so, Ghug.

Jamie: Is there a world where Celaph is flipper?

Worcej: Well that depends who the Flipper is!

As I said after my post, I accidently hit submit on my cellphone with my fat freedom thumb.

[pyxxy]

"Rule 3. All players must direct their issues or concerns with the game privately to GMs first, and all players must refrain from escalating issues in the game thread."

As a newbie, this seems like the most relevant rule/guidance for how I'm supposed to interpret this Eden Ghug situation.

To me it seems like a question that should have been resolved before the game, or with prior experience, or possibly rules? "What is acceptable gameplay?"

In the sense that I would hope this mafia community bans things like harassment, threats, etc. akin to rules I've seen for vftf/press games, I would except all other tactics to be acceptable. That includes reacting strongly to someone based on prior games and experiences with them. Ghug, I'm saying Ghug here.

Ghug is/was that he had no option. It's a catch-22. Feel like shit if you don't say anything, feel like shit if you do, accused of being scum either way.

Other the other hand, if Eden truly believes that this is all a facade, I don't know how any of us (e.g. Jamie tried) would get through to Eden that Ghug's feelings are real.

What I would do as Eden, however, is back down and apologize, because this is just a game. And if after the game Ghug comes up as scum and the win is in part due to this outburst and does a victory lap praising this play, then flame him for it; that's when there needs to be a conversation about norms, and Ghug loses all future credibility. Ghug would essentially be breaking what appear to be the norms for acceptable winning tactics.

Of course I have no idea if people have threatened to sub out before as a ruse. That's something I would consider a faux pas, as it feels like an attempt to bend the game management rules into an advantage. This is part of Rule 4?

"Part of the agreement of the community members involved in a game of Mafia on WebDiplomacy is that they will only attempt to prove their alignment within the interplay of town and mafia players engaging in a mutual game of deception and deduction within one public game thread and any associated private communications permitted by the GMs, and will not attempt to “game” the GMs’ handling of private information to establish players’ alignments."

If Ghug is being disingenuous about asking for a sub, I would consider that an issue for the GMs to resolve, possibly after the game. I personally don't believe he's being dishonest about how he feels, regardless of his alignment.

[pyxxy]

I expect there is a high liklihood I die tonight and If I do, continue onward friends and gl.

Alas, I knew you for so little time. Any final wisdom before your inevitable demise? Or do we only get to hear such things a few minutes before the deadline

[damo666]

As a member of kouncil, this is the type of comments you're endorsing?

Why did you interpret those skull emojis as an endorsement?

I must admit I found that odd

[Maniac]

Im half british and my family was from birkenhead. youd think that you two would be the easiest people for me to relate too and yet in every game I feel I have to explain my intuitions to you several times and you usually wind up both just finding me a nuisance

Birkenhead! No kidding. My maternal grandfather was from Birkenhead. Lovely man. One of those people who would never throw anything away. He died in the war holding a grenade

[worcej]

Won't be here for EON due to meeting at work.

Tier 1.0: Chaqa, Eden, bozo
Tier 2.0: BB, rdr, damo
Tier 3.0: Bona, ghug's slot, Blamp, Demon, pyxxy
Tier 3.5: Maniac
Tier 4.0: Jamie, Sabi, TFB

[President Eden]

sorry pyxxy but I find it absolutely perverse that when ghug repeatedly attacked my character—when I did literally nothing to attack him and broke no rules or norms of accepted play whatsoever—that I should be the one to apologize.

every single thing I said to him or about him was focused on his play and not his person. I never once attacked him as a person.

I’m not apologizing to someone who flipped out over nothing and is probably caught mafia making a play anyway.

I will withhold comment on the rest as it strongly implicates my position on the Council and also requires knowledge of certain facts that I don’t and cannot have a player (e.g., whether ghug did actually request to the GMs to sub him out).

[pyxxy]

sorry pyxxy but I find it absolutely perverse that when ghug repeatedly attacked my character—when I did literally nothing to attack him and broke no rules or norms of accepted play whatsoever—that I should be the one to apologize.

every single thing I said to him or about him was focused on his play and not his person. I never once attacked him as a person.

I’m not apologizing to someone who flipped out over nothing and is probably caught mafia making a play anyway.

I will withhold comment on the rest as it strongly implicates my position on the Council and also requires knowledge of certain facts that I don’t and cannot have a player (e.g., whether ghug did actually request to the GMs to sub him out).

I hear you. Ty for withholding comment.

[damo666]

maybe lets tone it down a bit and I apologize.
but if im being honest I dont read sabi posts and I have just chosen to not talk to sabi.

and if they are town cool
if they arent cool

im not telling them to stop playing or stop trying. its like johnnybighorse 2.0

That is not a fair or helpful comparison.

Agreed

[President Eden]

if I die, do it for her

[Jamiet99uk]

Won't be here for EON due to meeting at work.

Tier 1.0: Chaqa, Eden, bozo
Tier 2.0: BB, rdr, damo
Tier 3.0: Bona, ghug's slot, Blamp, Demon, pyxxy
Tier 3.5: Maniac
Tier 4.0: Jamie, Sabi, TFB

Oh sod off, I'm town.