M73 - Fowl Play - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[President Eden]

I think the obsession with Maniac being scum thing relies on the notion that Maniac chose every single exact action which only helps scum and therefore it is just too improbable to envision that he just made all the wrong choices

and I say this having read celaph posts about Maniac and in now way do I see celaph talking about a scumteam member in that celaph iso.

so basically were saying it isnt about celaphs posts about maniac. thats all wifom.

all that matters is maniac acted in scums interest in every phase of the process so hes indisputably scum.

which if you really think about is the perfect miskill for scum because theres really no defense for the actions. Maniac can say he felt this way at this time and no matter what he says people will think its obfuscation

I wouldn’t say indisputable, but yes at some point when a player has played exactly according to mafia interests at every critical phase of the game, you don’t have a choice but to resolve their alignment one way or another.

that’s why I’ve been couching it as “resolve Maniac/Lamp,” because IMO if Maniac is town and just accidentally shilled for scum all game, then Lamp looks like the one trying to convert that into a miskill

mafia games are lost by looking exclusively at one player and saying that in every action this person helped scums interest. ive seen countless examples of people piling on and just being wrong and that spirals into six phases
of dead town in a row and boom suddenly its a runaway maf win because people followed their noses onto people who didnt assert themselves or got too much wrong to be able to trust.

now granted town following its nose is what youre supposed to do. you dont play the wild theory game you do what makes the most sense. I like the idea that people just play like shit and thats part of the game. scum are more precise and tend to not leave so many skid marks in their underwear for all to see on the clothes line

luckily we’re looking at like half a dozen people and not tunneling exclusively on Maniac. the only person who got zeroed in on hard was celaph, who flipped mafia.

I think caution in this matter is wise, but shouldn’t lead to inaction.



and for anybody who actually read my case on ghug, compare how ghug and brainbomb make the same point. both are ostensibly worried about people coasting on early reads and failing to zero in on mafia playing well enough to avoid major suspicion. but ghug does so by shading every clear town in the game for wildly wrong reasons, leaving open potential miskills later and bringing no constructive alternative to the table. brainbomb is worried about Maniac being miskilled and is actively looking to present an alternate theory to avoid this outcome. the difference in agendas is night and day

[brainbomb]

we know celaph wouldve had to choose what to flip as on day 1 by eod when he knew he was on gallows he wouldve had to make a conscious decision to flip as godfather then rather than role claim and out a pr in the process. which he easily couldve probably triggered and the fact he wouldve chosen godfather without knowing he was certain to die or not would seem like sub optimal play from a scum pov. what do they actually gain out of that other than 1/3 guys is still unscannable with any accuracy?
choosing godfather as flipper doesnt clone you into cop scan immunity at best all it does is sow doubt on scans. whereas if he were to claim doctor he can actually out the doctor. if he can claim cop he can actually out the cop. and same is true for janitor.

the more likely reality is he didnt have anything to claim because he was godfather and hoped hed get false cleared n1

I meant joat not janitor

[BusinessLamp]

Blamp won't respond, sad.

Can't wait to re-use this when you proceed to ignore every post I just made responding and tearing down each argument you've manufactured against me.

Everyone, please critically examine the attack Sabi just tried to lodge against me. They apparently iso'd many people, but only took the time to manufacture an argument against as many posts of mine as possible. All of these arguments were in bad faith, and using poor logic, which I think my responses demonstrate. They've been unreasonably fixated on me this whole game. I think it is in part because I'm one of the only people who have actively vocalized doubts about their effort level and why their spreadsheets and such aren't town-indicative. If they throw suspicion on me, my arguments against them hold less wait because it looks like OMGUS. They're not actually scum-hunting and considering all possibilities, their agenda is just to make me a target. Having me/Maniac be the discussion point of tomorrow is their goal; I wouldn't be surprised if we're both town.

Sabi, if you're town, please fucking re-examine. But it's really hard for me to believe that at this point.

[worcej]

celaph interacted with BesharamSabi and BusinessLamp a fair amount D1. Considering celaph was not very active, it does not seem likely he would spend his time interacting with teammates more than town members.

Based on the amount celaph interacted with other players, I would say damo, RHK, ghug, worcej, and rdrivera look like scum possibilities.

Can I just say that this analysis is rough to really apply to my slot only because Macca was also MIA for D1 and thus not someone easily interactable with?

Not going to go all tailspinning with you like I did with Bob last game, but just want to point that out for your consideration.

[brainbomb]

blamp.
Do not panic
your safety is not in peril from sabi. no one actually reads sabi posts or follows their lines of attack.

[President Eden]

blamp.
Do not panic
your safety is not in peril from sabi. no one actually reads sabi posts or follows their lines of attack.

[ghug]

I mean you can disregard everything im thinking thats fine. If we cant agree on those basic ideas im certainly going to keep trying to illustrate it because we dont have unlimited swaths of time to trifle over it. TFB is independently towny in his posts.

Is there a possible world in which Flipper Celaph chooses Godfather to make us think the Godfather is dead, thus making us wrongly townclear the actual Godfather?

Depends on who the flipper is - I can see some bullshit like this from only a couple players.

Well, he's saying it would be celaph.

[BesharamSabi]

Blamp won't respond, sad.

Can't wait to re-use this when you proceed to ignore every post I just made responding and tearing down each argument you've manufactured against me.

Everyone, please critically examine the attack Sabi just tried to lodge against me. They apparently iso'd many people, but only took the time to manufacture an argument against as many posts of mine as possible. All of these arguments were in bad faith, and using poor logic, which I think my responses demonstrate. They've been unreasonably fixated on me this whole game. I think it is in part because I'm one of the only people who have actively vocalized doubts about their effort level and why their spreadsheets and such aren't town-indicative. If they throw suspicion on me, my arguments against them hold less wait because it looks like OMGUS. They're not actually scum-hunting and considering all possibilities, their agenda is just to make me a target. Having me/Maniac be the discussion point of tomorrow is their goal; I wouldn't be surprised if we're both town.

Sabi, if you're town, please fucking re-examine. But it's really hard for me to believe that at this point.

Give me a hour and I will respond at lunch.

[BesharamSabi]

blamp.
Do not panic
your safety is not in peril from sabi. no one actually reads sabi posts or follows their lines of attack.

Once again brainbomb being unnecessarily being a dick.

I'm trying very hard not to let my emotions get ahead of me. There's only so many unnecessary attacks and insults I can take from you brainbomb. Jesus fucking Christ stop fucking insulting me.

[ghug]

I wouldn’t say indisputable, but yes at some point when a player has played exactly according to mafia interests at every critical phase of the game, you don’t have a choice but to resolve their alignment one way or another.

that’s why I’ve been couching it as “resolve Maniac/Lamp,” because IMO if Maniac is town and just accidentally shilled for scum all game, then Lamp looks like the one trying to convert that into a miskill

mafia games are lost by looking exclusively at one player and saying that in every action this person helped scums interest. ive seen countless examples of people piling on and just being wrong and that spirals into six phases
of dead town in a row and boom suddenly its a runaway maf win because people followed their noses onto people who didnt assert themselves or got too much wrong to be able to trust.

now granted town following its nose is what youre supposed to do. you dont play the wild theory game you do what makes the most sense. I like the idea that people just play like shit and thats part of the game. scum are more precise and tend to not leave so many skid marks in their underwear for all to see on the clothes line

luckily we’re looking at like half a dozen people and not tunneling exclusively on Maniac. the only person who got zeroed in on hard was celaph, who flipped mafia.

I think caution in this matter is wise, but shouldn’t lead to inaction.



and for anybody who actually read my case on ghug, compare how ghug and brainbomb make the same point. both are ostensibly worried about people coasting on early reads and failing to zero in on mafia playing well enough to avoid major suspicion. but ghug does so by shading every clear town in the game for wildly wrong reasons, leaving open potential miskills later and bringing no constructive alternative to the table. brainbomb is worried about Maniac being miskilled and is actively looking to present an alternate theory to avoid this outcome. the difference in agendas is night and day

Stop calling them clear town! It's ridiculous!

[BesharamSabi]

blamp.
Do not panic
your safety is not in peril from sabi. no one actually reads sabi posts or follows their lines of attack.

As a member of kouncil, this is the type of comments you're endorsing?

[worcej]

also I find Boat’s OOG explanations for not being around kind of sus. feels like this guy was always finding ways to be around and active in previous games.

like obviously RL things DO get in the way and ARE more important. don’t get me wrong. but at a minimum it seems like Boat is using them as a pass more than in previous games, which might be indicative of mafia.

this is kind of weak and I don’t really like looking too far into this stuff anyway but

yea

It's best to ignore OOG reasons and IRL shit for lurking because it happens to everyone from time to time.

Stick to the shit in the thread and don't project further - you'll just wind up making stupid votes like I have far too many times.

[President Eden]

mafia games are lost by looking exclusively at one player and saying that in every action this person helped scums interest. ive seen countless examples of people piling on and just being wrong and that spirals into six phases
of dead town in a row and boom suddenly its a runaway maf win because people followed their noses onto people who didnt assert themselves or got too much wrong to be able to trust.

now granted town following its nose is what youre supposed to do. you dont play the wild theory game you do what makes the most sense. I like the idea that people just play like shit and thats part of the game. scum are more precise and tend to not leave so many skid marks in their underwear for all to see on the clothes line

luckily we’re looking at like half a dozen people and not tunneling exclusively on Maniac. the only person who got zeroed in on hard was celaph, who flipped mafia.

I think caution in this matter is wise, but shouldn’t lead to inaction.



and for anybody who actually read my case on ghug, compare how ghug and brainbomb make the same point. both are ostensibly worried about people coasting on early reads and failing to zero in on mafia playing well enough to avoid major suspicion. but ghug does so by shading every clear town in the game for wildly wrong reasons, leaving open potential miskills later and bringing no constructive alternative to the table. brainbomb is worried about Maniac being miskilled and is actively looking to present an alternate theory to avoid this outcome. the difference in agendas is night and day

Stop calling them clear town! It's ridiculous!

if your goal is to entrench me in the belief that one of your teammates is town it’s working

[ghug]

blamp.
Do not panic
your safety is not in peril from sabi. no one actually reads sabi posts or follows their lines of attack.

As a member of kouncil, this is the type of comments you're endorsing?

I mean, he's gone off on people himself too games in a row now. They clearly don't hold themselves to high standards.

[brainbomb]

when I was on the kouncil it was pretty chill. people didnt want to stifle the community with rules or policing play. it was usually just chaqa making decisions and I recall asking for sanctions and bans on alot of
people and the only real punishments ever administered were about game flaking and egregious toxic behavior. I think lfischl got a one game ban one time for always being subbed out and that was it

[worcej]

blamp.
Do not panic
your safety is not in peril from sabi. no one actually reads sabi posts or follows their lines of attack.

As a member of kouncil, this is the type of comments you're endorsing?

As a player, I didn't find anything he said as an attack to your character.

You need to separate emotions from this game.

[President Eden]

blamp.
Do not panic
your safety is not in peril from sabi. no one actually reads sabi posts or follows their lines of attack.

As a member of kouncil, this is the type of comments you're endorsing?

if you believe a rule violation has occurred then take it up with the GMs or a Councilor not in the game. it isn’t my place to put my Council hat on here.

as a player I thought it was harsh but an accurate assessment of how the past several town games have gone for you

[worcej]

probably a good strategy as you have no argument and towns don’t read

Only when an entire fucking page of forum is one post from you.

The TL;DR is a nice touch at least.

dude it’s important. there’s no fluff there. it’s long because literally everything ghug did that I called out was blatantly promoting a mafia agenda in a way that most people would just overlook or ignore.

and it’s not at all often the case that everything someone does in a sequence promotes a mafia agenda, but that’s what happened there.

Not saying it isn't important - I've logged it and can go back and check it on the bot.

I just hate having to read 20 pages to catch up...

[BusinessLamp]

from my perspective, i think the people most likely to be scum are the ones who were propping up my case on maniac. if it went through, and maniac was town, i'd be the fall guy and they'd get two miskills out of it. From what I remember, that was Jamie/ghug/Sabi/TFB. Those are my prime suspects to look into, with TFB less so.

[President Eden]

As a member of kouncil, this is the type of comments you're endorsing?

I mean, he's gone off on people himself too games in a row now. They clearly don't hold themselves to high standards.

well this is in egregiously bad faith but I’m not going to rise to the bait