M73 - Fowl Play - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[BesharamSabi]

Like there was no transition of blamp posts from CELAPH IS Town to VOTE CELAPH LESSGOOOO.

All in span of 14 minutes?

Yes its eod, emotions are wild

But like idk it feels like signal?

Here's how the votes looked like around then:

00:22 ghu Cha➙Man 6 The 6 Man 5 cel
00:06 Cha Man➙cel 6 The 6 cel 5 Man
00:06 Bus Man➙cel 7 cel 6 The 4 Man
00:05 The Man➙cel 8 cel 6 The 3 Man
00:05 ghu Man➙Man 8 cel 6 The 3 Man
00:03 dam The➙cel 9 cel 5 The 3 Man

What's odd was Blamp number one vote for the whole day, Maniac, was still tied when he suddenly switched to celaph?

It's weird. I need to relook at this with fresh eyes.

[brainbomb]

Snowy was bad, now good. Initial focus on Kak was artificial, but his current posting style around reminds me of the time we miskilled him because he didn't explain his scumread on ghug well. He's calling out worthwhile points, but giving no thought to why they are worth while.

Sabi has transitioned from deir defeatist attitude into just asking what others think of specific people. This both helps town a more and is also far more likely to be faked. Might switch if they turn the questions into something useful, but otherwise I fear scum here.

PE, BB, and ghug are all town on the day. No change to the scum on Blamp.

I've liked the arguments put forth by BB regarding TFB. To add my 2 cents, the following is a question you ask not because you particularly care about the answer, but rather because you think of it as the type of question that town should ask.

Continuing with the catch up, ignoring the effects of snowy trolling you in your view, how has your read of Sabi evolved and why given their posts after you called them out?

this sorta looks like celaph wants ghug to look responsible for snowys death. highlighting a motive for ghug to kill snow

[brainbomb]

ah okay I misread this. hes talking about a past game where ghug killed snow. this is a non point and I apologize for misreading

[brainbomb]

In case this goes south:

The kind and wordy way that PE is contributing with makes me think that he is town. He is starting conversations and leading town in the right direction.

I've liked the way that ghug has pushed back against PE on things that have also caught me as suspect. This is within ghug's scum abilities, but I've liked him so far.

Blamp has improved back to normal town blamp from last game. His ideas are consistent and feel like they are coming from a towny place.

Jamie feels like he has been upset at all the things that I would expect town Jamie to be upset about. Don't just say that "this is within scum Jamie's range". That's a cop out.

Sabi/TFB scummy. Kak's reason for voting me is terrible.

I do not think scum celaph mentions that scum ghug is well within ghugs scum capabilities.

[bozotheclown]

Just when I thought celaph was putting in too much effort to get TFB voted out first for them to be mafia teammates, TFB tried to make Maniac his counterwagon instead of celaph, and did not return to celaph until celaph was in the lead. Maybe the plan was for celaph and TFB to bus each other all day.

[brainbomb]

http://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?us ... elaph&g=73

RHK looks pretty sus of celaph right away and this is good for rhk imo

[ghug]

There’s way too much in here for responding to every minor point and aside to be worthwhile, so I’m just going to address it as a whole. If you’ve got any specific point you want me to respond to, I’m happy to oblige, but most of the shipments you’re making about individual people (e.g. my comments on data analysis being scummy) don’t make any sense.

It’d be helpful if you took a couple of examples and showed me, but it’s not really important. Your call. I also think the examples are just indicative of the trend, but if you really are town somehow and not just mafia busted trying to push an agenda, then explaining your examples better would probably help illustrate that.

I have seen town repeatedly lose games by refusing to consider people because they voted for scum early. If you want specific examples, consider Donny last game or Chaqa in the 3v11 game. My issue with your post was with the fact that you were doing that at all, and I criticized it with a few comments on the specific propra in question and a general comment on the meta. The goal wasn’t to shade everyone on the celaph wagons, or to give my current thoughts on scum, it was to note that it’s ridiculous to just sit there and lock them all as town. You’re saying I’m scummy—beyond the questionable nitpicking of semantics—because I’m trying to fill your attempts at establishing a towncore, bit I’m not nefariously picking at the seams to undermine your goal. I’m saying plainly that I think writing of half the game as town is a bad idea.

There are a number of issues here.

(1) I’m not saying never ever look at these guys ever under any circumstances forever. They could immediately fuck off and do nothing for 5 day/night cycles and not die while we miss on a bunch of people in a row, and at that point it’d be fairly apparent that we need to review them. But for now it’s pretty obvious that they don’t need to be looked at, and you’re just fronting here with this checks and balances act to masquerade the fact that you’re mafia and it’s your agenda to disrupt the formation of a town core off of us killing your teammate.

(2) The reason towns failed to catch Chaqa and Donny is exactly the opposite of what you’re purporting happened. They didn’t fail because they wrongly town cleared Chaqa and Donny. They failed because they wrongly didn’t town clear several other people who were clear town and in fact killed them instead. They should have been able to town clear Maniac off of the innocent scan + his own behavior. They killed him instead. If memory serves, town killed both aaro and Bona incorrectly near the end of Chaqa’s game because they got paranoid and didn’t trust their town reads of the new guys. WebDip towns implode because of the exact paranoia you’re trying to spread all the time. It’s a running joke in every god chat ever that an inexplicable town implosion is inevitable.

(3) You are grotesquely exaggerating the numbers. Four people is not half the game. It is half of half the game. You have doubled the number of people I’m allegedly trying to 100% clear for the rest of the game to frame it as some kind of big problem. I anticipate you’ll rebut this by calling it semantics, but your consistently sweeping word choice betrays your agenda. You aren’t motivated to be precise enough to turn your superficially appealing critique into a meaningful alternate proposal that can be synthesized into a real solution. You’re just shading progress. As I described someone (Boat maybe? and possibly wrongly…) earlier, it’s the difference between someone having a different vision for how to accomplish a project and someone just saying “no” and stonewalling the project into oblivion.

You can look at past games to see me making this attachment repeatedly after we catch scum early. It’s not scum motivated. I just disagree with you, and for good reason.

When you’re town I can usually count on you to needlessly detract from a correct townread yes ( ), but I can also usually count on you to have a coherent alternate view that rightly implicates some people and rightly exonerates some others, and whenever we stop butting heads we can usually figure out which of us has the right idea on ABC and which of us has the right idea on XYZ and get to the right answer.

You didn’t do any of that here. You’re posing like you were just trying to help round out my starting point by providing some much needed deliberate check on a rash set of conclusions, but you didn’t do that. You just shaded everybody I called out and then peaced until I wrote a Tolstoyan epic about it.

I'm gonna try just not arguing with you here, because I don't think there's much to be gained for anyone by doing so and I think we're both liable to let it consume the thread. Scumread me if you want. I think a neutral observer will see past the over the top rhetoric to the fact that this is just us disagreeing on something and you blowing it way out of proportion.

[brainbomb]

ghugdid you ever feel like celaph was winning you over?

[brainbomb]

celaph mentions of demonrhk

http://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?us ... onrhk&g=73

this is curious
maybe how celaph would conceal janitor is to just never even talk about them

[Chaqa]

[furiously checks player list to be sure he isn’t #4]

Hahah no it’s not for that, I promise there’s a reason though

[brainbomb]

Is anyone reading my posts? I wouldnt mind feedback and opinions. I think ive established at a minimum that celaph was godfather and tfb isnt scum.

some of my other thoughts are maybe more intuitive than factual

[ghug]

Like there was no transition of blamp posts from CELAPH IS Town to VOTE CELAPH LESSGOOOO.

All in span of 14 minutes?

Yes its eod, emotions are wild

But like idk it feels like signal?

Here's how the votes looked like around then:

00:22 ghu Cha➙Man 6 The 6 Man 5 cel
00:06 Cha Man➙cel 6 The 6 cel 5 Man
00:06 Bus Man➙cel 7 cel 6 The 4 Man
00:05 The Man➙cel 8 cel 6 The 3 Man
00:05 ghu Man➙Man 8 cel 6 The 3 Man
00:03 dam The➙cel 9 cel 5 The 3 Man

What's odd was Blamp number one vote for the whole day, Maniac, was still tied when he suddenly switched to celaph?

It's weird. I need to relook at this with fresh eyes.

I kinda dig his explanation though. It clearly was not image motivated, and I don't see why scum Blamp takes the time to try to save celaph if he's just going to move to kill him.

[brainbomb]

is anyone irritated by what im doing and wants me to cease because its flooding the thread with links to things anyone could just go look up on their own?

[bozotheclown]

In M72, celaph tried to pocket some players D1. Here are what looks like pocketing attempt D1 in this game:

Why do you townlean Jamiet when he's being the worst part of this game and his actions scream someone who rather piss people off than play mafia?

Regarding Jamie, I think his actions far more scream someone who is frustrated than someone who doesn't want to play mafia. If he didn't want to play mafia, he could just not play mafia.

I think I townlean PE for the way he has generated conversation. It gets information out there and his open hedginess ("we need to start somewhere") is understandable given the time.

That's all that I think look like pocketing attempts. The Jamie post was early, I doubt celaph would make that post about a teammate at the beginning of the game.

[ghug]

ghugdid you ever feel like celaph was winning you over?

Yeah, he felt way more townie than he has in either of his last two scumgames. I was feeling pretty defeated going into EoD.

[President Eden]

monkaS

I do actually need a whole number though

monkagiga

7

[Chaqa]

monkaS

I do actually need a whole number though

monkagiga

7

hey WAIT A MINUTE

[President Eden]

I’m gonna try just not arguing with you here, because I don’t think there’s much to be gained for anyone by doing so and I think we’re both liable to let it consume the thread. Scumread me if you want. I think a neutral observer will see past the over the top rhetoric to the fact that this is just us disagreeing on something and you blowing it way out of proportion.

probably a good strategy as you have no argument and towns don’t read

[brainbomb]

damo mentions of celaph

http://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?us ... elaph&g=73

brutal and focused. there is no indication ever that damo would hope celaph lives

[President Eden]

I do actually need a whole number though

monkagiga

7

hey WAIT A MINUTE

damn, busted