M73 - Fowl Play - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[BesharamSabi]

celaph
Kakarroto
worcej
pyxxy
rdrivera2005

Remember that Bob has sensibly re-instated the "Must Vote" rule despite the meddling of the Council, so you will need to vote.

this looks like a post with Jamie listing celaph as his top scumread and yet this seems to just never be something Jamie cares about

That's a did not vote list, not a scum list brainbomb

[BesharamSabi]

##vote celaph

##end

it's inevitable can we save 24 hours please?

Damo looks good

[BesharamSabi]

Hmm I do find this interesting because blamp was online in bottom bar for a good part of the real time night part of night one.

Interesting.

Could point to a fear kill?

I skimmed Blamp's +1s and saw no evidence that he was in the thread reading at that time. Now, he certainly could have been aware that people might monitor that and consciously didn't +1, but at that point why is he not just hiding himself or reading straight from the bot? I find it far more likely that he just had the tab open in the background while going about his day.

Blamp doesn't +1 much. The assumption behind this post is fundamentally flawed for this reason.

This is also a towny-seeming take on the face of it but no actually towny thought was required to make it.

Bona looks good, blamp doesn't. Celaph defending his team mate blamp.....?

[BesharamSabi]

explain why scum celaph is trying to keep town kak safe?

That I'm very confused about why did celaph try to save kak?

[Bonatogether]

explain why scum celaph is trying to keep town kak safe?

That I'm very confused about why did celaph try to save kak?

cause scum can do whatever quirky shit they want

if scum purely tried to save other scum, it'd be so clear who they were, so they necessarily have to be protecting some town in order to keep up the facade

[BesharamSabi]

the best compliment I can give sabi about this game compared to the scumgame is that every 4th post is not to tell us theyre on their way to the dentist or that some drama happened on some other server or that something outside the game is more important.

they arent using out of game crap to evade the thread

Tbf all of that drama was something that took up my whole day. Currently there's no discord drama nor am I with family or it's the holidays. The only distraction I have right now is work but I am playing mafia around that and have been as active and engaged with the game as I can be without my work being affected.

But you can scum read that too.

Regardless anything I do will be scum read.

[BesharamSabi]

explain why scum celaph is trying to keep town kak safe?

That I'm very confused about why did celaph try to save kak?

cause scum can do whatever quirky shit they want

if scum purely tried to save other scum, it'd be so clear who they were, so they necessarily have to be protecting some town in order to keep up the facade

That's fair. Just confused by it even tho your explanation makes sense.

[BesharamSabi]

Haven't checked the bot but I knew there was a three way tie between Maniac vs celaph vs tfb.

What, or should I specify who, caused everyone to jump ship from Maniac on to celaph?

[BesharamSabi]

here are some people who have been given far too much of a hall pass
bona
rdrivera
jamiet99uk
businesslamp
sabi

among those im certain at least is scum playing a very quality level of game if not several

Eden why did you have issues with ghug questioning Bona towncore but not brain saying something similar about Nona?

[President Eden]

here are some people who have been given far too much of a hall pass
bona
rdrivera
jamiet99uk
businesslamp
sabi

among those im certain at least is scum playing a very quality level of game if not several

Eden why did you have issues with ghug questioning Bona towncore but not brain saying something similar about Nona?

the answer to this depends on whether you read my post (beyond skimming to see that accusing ghug based in part on his statements about Bona) or not

[President Eden]

it’s fully ok to admit you didn’t, it’s fucking massive I know. but I need to know whether there’s some part of it that needs explaining and wasn’t clear originally, or if you feel it doesn’t come to a clear enough conclusion, or what.

[ghug]

snip

There's way too much in here for responding to every minor point and aside to be worthwhile, so I'm just going to address it as a whole. If you've got any specific point you want me to respond to, I'm happy to oblige, but most of the shipments you're making about individual people (e.g. my comments on data analysis being scummy) don't make any sense.

I have seen town repeatedly lose games by refusing to consider people because they voted for scum early. If you want specific examples, consider Donny last game or Chaqa in the 3v11 game. My issue with your post was with the fact that you were doing that at all, and I criticized it with a few comments on the specific propra in question and a general comment on the meta. The goal wasn't to shade everyone on the celaph wagons, or to give my current thoughts on scum, it was to note that it's ridiculous to just sit there and lock them all as town. You're saying I'm scummy—beyond the questionable nitpicking of semantics—because I'm trying to fill your attempts at establishing a towncore, bit I'm not nefariously picking at the seams to undermine your goal. I'm saying plainly that I think writing of half the game as town is a bad idea.

You can look at past games to see me making this attachment repeatedly after we catch scum early. It's not scum motivated. I just disagree with you, and for good reason.

[BesharamSabi]

here are some people who have been given far too much of a hall pass
bona
rdrivera
jamiet99uk
businesslamp
sabi

among those im certain at least is scum playing a very quality level of game if not several

Eden why did you have issues with ghug questioning Bona towncore but not brain saying something similar about Nona?

the answer to this depends on whether you read my post (beyond skimming to see that accusing ghug based in part on his statements about Bona) or not

I haven't read it yet but I will.

[BesharamSabi]

it’s fully ok to admit you didn’t, it’s fucking massive I know. but I need to know whether there’s some part of it that needs explaining and wasn’t clear originally, or if you feel it doesn’t come to a clear enough conclusion, or what.

I will write out my comments and questions when I read it. I'm still trying to reread day 2

[brainbomb]

Now im researching macca/worcej and their mentions of
celaph

[brainbomb]

Will have details in the morning. Gonna take a shower and compile
my thoughts later this phase

[BesharamSabi]

Blamp why did you stop doing the town council thing? It was a pro town and winning strategy last game?

[brainbomb]

http://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?us ... elaph&g=73

for anyone with curiousity

[President Eden]

There’s way too much in here for responding to every minor point and aside to be worthwhile, so I’m just going to address it as a whole. If you’ve got any specific point you want me to respond to, I’m happy to oblige, but most of the shipments you’re making about individual people (e.g. my comments on data analysis being scummy) don’t make any sense.

It’d be helpful if you took a couple of examples and showed me, but it’s not really important. Your call. I also think the examples are just indicative of the trend, but if you really are town somehow and not just mafia busted trying to push an agenda, then explaining your examples better would probably help illustrate that.

I have seen town repeatedly lose games by refusing to consider people because they voted for scum early. If you want specific examples, consider Donny last game or Chaqa in the 3v11 game. My issue with your post was with the fact that you were doing that at all, and I criticized it with a few comments on the specific propra in question and a general comment on the meta. The goal wasn’t to shade everyone on the celaph wagons, or to give my current thoughts on scum, it was to note that it’s ridiculous to just sit there and lock them all as town. You’re saying I’m scummy—beyond the questionable nitpicking of semantics—because I’m trying to fill your attempts at establishing a towncore, bit I’m not nefariously picking at the seams to undermine your goal. I’m saying plainly that I think writing of half the game as town is a bad idea.

There are a number of issues here.

(1) I’m not saying never ever look at these guys ever under any circumstances forever. They could immediately fuck off and do nothing for 5 day/night cycles and not die while we miss on a bunch of people in a row, and at that point it’d be fairly apparent that we need to review them. But for now it’s pretty obvious that they don’t need to be looked at, and you’re just fronting here with this checks and balances act to masquerade the fact that you’re mafia and it’s your agenda to disrupt the formation of a town core off of us killing your teammate.

(2) The reason towns failed to catch Chaqa and Donny is exactly the opposite of what you’re purporting happened. They didn’t fail because they wrongly town cleared Chaqa and Donny. They failed because they wrongly didn’t town clear several other people who were clear town and in fact killed them instead. They should have been able to town clear Maniac off of the innocent scan + his own behavior. They killed him instead. If memory serves, town killed both aaro and Bona incorrectly near the end of Chaqa’s game because they got paranoid and didn’t trust their town reads of the new guys. WebDip towns implode because of the exact paranoia you’re trying to spread all the time. It’s a running joke in every god chat ever that an inexplicable town implosion is inevitable.

(3) You are grotesquely exaggerating the numbers. Four people is not half the game. It is half of half the game. You have doubled the number of people I’m allegedly trying to 100% clear for the rest of the game to frame it as some kind of big problem. I anticipate you’ll rebut this by calling it semantics, but your consistently sweeping word choice betrays your agenda. You aren’t motivated to be precise enough to turn your superficially appealing critique into a meaningful alternate proposal that can be synthesized into a real solution. You’re just shading progress. As I described someone (Boat maybe? and possibly wrongly…) earlier, it’s the difference between someone having a different vision for how to accomplish a project and someone just saying “no” and stonewalling the project into oblivion.

You can look at past games to see me making this attachment repeatedly after we catch scum early. It’s not scum motivated. I just disagree with you, and for good reason.

When you’re town I can usually count on you to needlessly detract from a correct townread yes ( ), but I can also usually count on you to have a coherent alternate view that rightly implicates some people and rightly exonerates some others, and whenever we stop butting heads we can usually figure out which of us has the right idea on ABC and which of us has the right idea on XYZ and get to the right answer.

You didn’t do any of that here. You’re posing like you were just trying to help round out my starting point by providing some much needed deliberate check on a rash set of conclusions, but you didn’t do that. You just shaded everybody I called out and then peaced until I wrote a Tolstoyan epic about it.

[BesharamSabi]

honestly a bit sus to me that chaqa gave into the pressure of people asking him to do the "what if celaph is scum" "what if celaph is town" analysis instead of just continuing to be lazy LOL

Why is this sus? Decision trees are important aspect of Mafia. It helps figure out all the avenues of the game from every kill decision.