M73 - Fowl Play - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[brainbomb]

Because to be in a town core means you're basically 90%+ town to that person and to that requires significant justification imo

I fail to see why I miss the mark on being on that list for you then?
the fact ive not interacted with you as much as your last game with me where you were a PR and in post game you reassured me im very good at the game and that I played well.

if this is true how am I playing “worse”

I don't think you are playing worse? I think you are fine, but there's a different between doing well, being townie, and being town core. I think you're 1 and 2 and not 3. Earlier literally only Eden and Sabi were town core for me. Now maybe just Eden, since other have convinced me I gave too many townie points for things they could do as either alignment. I have other reasonably good town reads, which you do fall into, and you can find my others with an ISO.

are you saying sabi is playing superbly as town and is driving home their points and is doing better than ever?

or is the bar so low for sabi to be in towncore that by just being here looking like they are trying is adequate material for towncore?

when I think towncore I think someone who is kgrayin the game and is carrying town who you would never kill unless youre an absolute moron

[President Eden]

I beleive more in a system of checks and balances and hard questioning into supposed towncores for the sake of not letting anything get passed through without a comb. which is why damo
and snowy tend to hate my style of play because they usually start accepting people as town and leaving that list out of their sight.

a great example is many games back when vecna was 3p and I kept repeating vecna was scum and I was mocked to the point of subbing out of the game and low and behold vecna was absolutely not town and was allowed a hall pass for 80% of the game

fwiw my only beef with you on this front is that I think you start bringing the heavy skepticism toward the town core way too early.
let it be noted that that’s a generic statement across many games and not a specific critique in this one.
nor is it exclusive to you by any means, this is the #1 reason why webDip towns implode every fucking game lol.

[President Eden]

this is also why I was 100% content to lose to Sabi faking a townslip in M71. because for every one time a newbie actually does that there’s conservatively 5-6 times, and more probably 10+, where it’s a genuine slip. and in the times where it’s genuine you get a massive edge from just trusting it and moving on.

this is a game of probabilities, heuristics, and certain action off uncertain info.

[ghug]

Very active for an hour out.

[TheFlyingBoat]

I fail to see why I miss the mark on being on that list for you then?
the fact ive not interacted with you as much as your last game with me where you were a PR and in post game you reassured me im very good at the game and that I played well.

if this is true how am I playing “worse”

I don't think you are playing worse? I think you are fine, but there's a different between doing well, being townie, and being town core. I think you're 1 and 2 and not 3. Earlier literally only Eden and Sabi were town core for me. Now maybe just Eden, since other have convinced me I gave too many townie points for things they could do as either alignment. I have other reasonably good town reads, which you do fall into, and you can find my others with an ISO.

are you saying sabi is playing superbly as town and is driving home their points and is doing better than ever?

or is the bar so low for sabi to be in towncore that by just being here looking like they are trying is adequate material for towncore?

when I think towncore I think someone who is kgrayin the game and is carrying town who you would never kill unless youre an absolute moron

No I do not think Sabi (or Eden for that matter) are or are going to kgray this game to victory. Sabi has played better than I expected and perhaps you're right I set the bar too low, which I've admitted is a possibility a couple times now. I think I probably am ready to demote them just to regular town. That being said I do think their effort is impressive and something they are unlikely to do as scum and I do appreciate after calling them out for it earlier they have restrained themselves from stirring up drama that sucks the air out of the room. I think their screen shots of their private notes and reads did show townie thought and I thought their analysis of the spreadsheet was acceptable. More importantly they seemed to respond well to my criticism and suggestions on how to improve, which is also townie behavior, admittedly townie behavior that can be faked.

[TheFlyingBoat]

this is also why I was 100% content to lose to Sabi faking a townslip in M71. because for every one time a newbie actually does that there’s conservatively 5-6 times, and more probably 10+, where it’s a genuine slip. and in the times where it’s genuine you get a massive edge from just trusting it and moving on.

this is a game of probabilities, heuristics, and certain action off uncertain info.

Well thankfully we didn't lose. We just drew

[President Eden]

anyway wow we really have a 6-6-5 huh.

I’m cool with any of these flipping but vaguely think it should be a D1 wagon and more probably FTB specifically.

trying my best to avoid making dirty stinking info kill arguments but it’s hard not to think about those ramifications when all 3 wagons are good here.

that said it’s kinda weird to me that we’re all just kinda cool with all 3 of these. very uncommon on webDip

[brainbomb]

id speak more on this but id just cross over into criticising how sabi plays and how you consider something core.

a towncore to me should be the people who are leading the game for town and are upholding towns best attributes unmistakably. So blurting out you are a vt on page 11 would never qualify as that

[ghug]

this is also why I was 100% content to lose to Sabi faking a townslip in M71. because for every one time a newbie actually does that there’s conservatively 5-6 times, and more probably 10+, where it’s a genuine slip. and in the times where it’s genuine you get a massive edge from just trusting it and moving on.

this is a game of probabilities, heuristics, and certain action off uncertain info.

Well thankfully we didn't lose. We just drew

Draw is three way loss. Fight me

[TheFlyingBoat]

id speak more on this but id just cross over into criticising how sabi plays and how you consider something core.

a towncore to me should be the people who are leading the game for town and are upholding towns best attributes unmistakably. So blurting out you are a vt on page 11 would never qualify as that

That's fair. For me my town core are those that are as unimpeachably town at that point as one could reasonably hope for in a game of mafia. Sometimes that means they're super useful, sometimes it just means they just obvtown hard even if not great, sometimes in between.

[brainbomb]

TFB more or less has convinced me that the snowy kill was intended to set them up as a miskill. and therefore celaph is back to being our best idea

[President Eden]

Very active for an hour out.

this too.

the worst part is there are two completely plausible and totally opposite arguments for why this is, with roughly equal predictive power, leading to opposite conclusions.

• mafia is caught and demotivated
• town is hanging all town and mafia dgaf

[TheFlyingBoat]

this is also why I was 100% content to lose to Sabi faking a townslip in M71. because for every one time a newbie actually does that there’s conservatively 5-6 times, and more probably 10+, where it’s a genuine slip. and in the times where it’s genuine you get a massive edge from just trusting it and moving on.

this is a game of probabilities, heuristics, and certain action off uncertain info.

Well thankfully we didn't lose. We just drew

Draw is three way loss. Fight me

I would say getting a draw from that position as town was an absolute win. That being said I wanted to see the gambit play out to its logical conclusion.

[TheFlyingBoat]

Very active for an hour out.

this too.

the worst part is there are two completely plausible and totally opposite arguments for why this is, with roughly equal predictive power, leading to opposite conclusions.

• mafia is caught and demotivated
• town is hanging all town and mafia dgaf

Given who is currently active what do you think?

[Chaqa]

Very active for an hour out.

this too.

the worst part is there are two completely plausible and totally opposite arguments for why this is, with roughly equal predictive power, leading to opposite conclusions.

• mafia is caught and demotivated
• town is hanging all town and mafia dgaf

Or 1-2 mafia are on the block and mafia are actively attempting to make sure the best result for them happens

[brainbomb]

M71 shouldve been a town win
and I fucked that game up and I fully accept that on my shoulders as one of my worst ever games. I hard defended every scum in a contrarian stance and eventually my own flip flopping got damo killed which at that point we were lost

[brainbomb]

credit to bozo for destroying my confidence and turning me against damo then

[ghug]

##VOTE Chaqa

[President Eden]

Very active for an hour out.

this too.

the worst part is there are two completely plausible and totally opposite arguments for why this is, with roughly equal predictive power, leading to opposite conclusions.

• mafia is caught and demotivated
• town is hanging all town and mafia dgaf

Or 1-2 mafia are on the block and mafia are actively attempting to make sure the best result for them happens

playing UNO skip card on FTB’s question and then UNO reversing it on you. where do you see this happening and who are the main actors in it?

[BusinessLamp]

TFB more or less has convinced me that the snowy kill was intended to set them up as a miskill. and therefore celaph is back to being our best idea

yeah i dont think the snowy kill indicts tfb. snowy just seemed like a good, rational player who would be hard to take out. the only person i think it looks bad on potentially is chaqa but im not gonna factor that much.

holy wow my brain is dying what is the word i want to use instead of indict. IMPLICATE there we go

i dont think the snowy kill implicates tfb lol