M73 - Fowl Play - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[Maniac]

yeah Maniac looks rly weird.

in his reads post he says:

I’d need a lot of convincing to vote for sabi, demon or Kakarroto.

which is the only sort of town read in the entire list

He also says that he won't vote celaph, but when asked about it only uses appeals to emotion to justify it, and even says:

Sure they haven’t done anything to help town win the game

When push comes to shove, Maniac votes TFB to try and get momentum there, putting TFB at 5 instead of Chaq/Cel/Kak at 3. Saying "TFB is marginally better than Kak." Ignoring the Chaq/Cel wagons.

Finally he pushes Kak into the lead, suddenly claiming a townread on celaph. This vote makes it 6/5, which celaph then makes 7/5. Basically the deciding factor.

I know this is repetitive of whoever looked at this earlier (Jamie?) but this seems best bet for tomorrow rn

I don’t see that I’ve been inconsistent at all.

27 mins to go, I have a choice between TFB, Celaph, Chaqa and Kak. I’m town reading Celaph and Chaqa’s only -ve point is he wanted Celaph dead but that’s not really alignment indicative. So I was left choosing TFB over Kak, (who I’d already said I wouldn’t vote for easily). So TFB was best of bad choices.

Few minutes to go the two lead wagons were Celaph and Kak. As I town read Celaph, Kak was the only other choice unless someone got flash wagoned.

[Chaqa]

Suppose celaph is town for a moment (cheers m8 eden's crying)
Why would scum Chaqa not do what he did there?

if the flip is successful he comes under heat more i would think. I don't see a lot of gain from it. like maybe he gets less heat late-game from people analyzing the Kak vote since he's no longer on it, they'll forget that he was. it just feels unnecessary as a scum move

Perhaps that is exactly what he hoped you would feel

I remember a few games back when he started waiving a vig gun willy nilly I was like "scum wouldn't do that" but he did

Why would I be trying to influence Blamp of all people?

[brainbomb]

chaqa is one of the most sophisticated and capable scum players ive ever seen. And I have seen him use at least 4 different scum
metas that are completely unalike.

So I am always worried about a chaqa on the loose. I feel sort of alright bout him currently and I could see him being town here. his deterministic attitude is more aggressive and pushes far into a scum meta he probably would have a very hard time maintaining. it is not like when he was scum with kgray at all.

[snowy801]

if the flip is successful he comes under heat more i would think. I don't see a lot of gain from it. like maybe he gets less heat late-game from people analyzing the Kak vote since he's no longer on it, they'll forget that he was. it just feels unnecessary as a scum move

Perhaps that is exactly what he hoped you would feel

I remember a few games back when he started waiving a vig gun willy nilly I was like "scum wouldn't do that" but he did

Why would I be trying to influence Blamp of all people?

A strange question. Why wouldn't they merely be the fish that got caught in your net?

[BesharamSabi]

Has Chaqa ever mention when and how long he was going to be afk before in a game? He sure didn't do it in m72.

What was the game where he lied about going on a date and was actually scum?

1. I do this all the time regardless of alignment, people always say it's scummy but it really isn't. Like one time I got daykilled because I had to go to the grocery store around the phase shift.

2. I really was on a date that game

I'm going to call bullshit on number one.

I'm at work so I don't have time to go look at more than your last four games (will read up more during lunch) but here is what I found so far:

M72: not once (VT)

M70: (not VT)

http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/ ... 81#p260781

M68: (not VT)

http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/ ... 71#p244071

http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/ ... 21#p244121

M67: (VT) not once

[President Eden]

I was arguing the alacrity being utilized to force through a townread on someone who had been under scrutiny for admittedly all the wrong talking points day one but the question about business lamp being town is being settled before our eyes anyway so I will rest my case on the subject. I do think the bigger issue is Eden blanketing through a townread with no stated reason and expecting us to just eat it and swallow it. he did this with ghug as well.

on this point, I don’t actually expect people to drop what they’re doing and accept my preliminary townreads on ghug and Lamp as gospel. I do want to get my conclusions out in the event that I’m unable to elaborate further before being unceremoniously yeeted from the game in a few hours, but compare my cursory “ghug and Lamp are town” statements to my defense of Kak for example. The Kak one I actually did expect people to accept and follow me on and was disappointed when they didn’t. these not as much.

[BusinessLamp]

Is anyone else being struck by how different Blamp is from last game?

I think he rolled his first scum game :D

does your scumread on chaqa relate to a feeling that this was a cheap shot? or opportunistic?

because at the time it was said I agreed with chaqa somewhat. In fact I was the first person who originally felt you were a great reread from last game and I wasnt seeing much in comparison at the time.

initial scumread came from:
-weird vibes from eden joke vote
-afk post
- reads list: "Blamp's phone thing is sus as hell. Vote him out." (which he later shrugged away as "sarcasm." but like... none of the rest of the post was joking...?)

i don't really mind people being sus on me because i'm acting different because, like, I am acting different. noticing that is fair. i know it's not scum-indicative but i can't expect others to feel the same.

it is still weird why chaqa moved onto kak in the first place after saying the kak wagon was bad. idkkkk

[Chaqa]

chaqa is one of the most sophisticated and capable scum players ive ever seen. And I have seen him use at least 4 different scum
metas that are completely unalike.

So I am always worried about a chaqa on the loose. I feel sort of alright bout him currently and I could see him being town here. his deterministic attitude is more aggressive and pushes far into a scum meta he probably would have a very hard time maintaining. it is not like when he was scum with kgray at all.

For some perspective on this -

I don't really understand the concept of "a town meta" or "a scum meta" or "trying out a new meta"

Every game is different. Regardless of alignment, I approach every game and current situation in whatever way I think will best serve my win condition. This applies to even the types of things I will do. So when people say "don't do X is it's so scummy" or "Y behavior is scummy/anti-town/[insert insult here]" I don't really think that's anything except lazy, because there is always a reason to do something that might be valid, it's not always visible from an outside perspective.

TLDR meta isn't a real thing for me, though other players (like Sabi or HR) seem to like to force themselves into a certain style of play, which just seems fake and suspicious in general.

[snowy801]

Has Chaqa ever mention when and how long he was going to be afk before in a game? He sure didn't do it in m72.

What was the game where he lied about going on a date and was actually scum?

1. I do this all the time regardless of alignment, people always say it's scummy but it really isn't. Like one time I got daykilled because I had to go to the grocery store around the phase shift.

2. I really was on a date that game

I'm going to call bullshit on number one.

I'm at work so I don't have time to go look at more than your last four games (will read up more during lunch) but here is what I found so far:

M72: not once (VT)

M70: (not VT)

http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/ ... 81#p260781

M68: (not VT)

http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/ ... 71#p244071

http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/ ... 21#p244121

M67: (VT) not once

got em

[Chaqa]

Perhaps that is exactly what he hoped you would feel

I remember a few games back when he started waiving a vig gun willy nilly I was like "scum wouldn't do that" but he did

Why would I be trying to influence Blamp of all people?

A strange question. Why wouldn't they merely be the fish that got caught in your net?

You're the one who said it, I'm asking why?

[brainbomb]

I was arguing the alacrity being utilized to force through a townread on someone who had been under scrutiny for admittedly all the wrong talking points day one but the question about business lamp being town is being settled before our eyes anyway so I will rest my case on the subject. I do think the bigger issue is Eden blanketing through a townread with no stated reason and expecting us to just eat it and swallow it. he did this with ghug as well.

on this point, I don’t actually expect people to drop what they’re doing and accept my preliminary townreads on ghug and Lamp as gospel. I do want to get my conclusions out in the event that I’m unable to elaborate further before being unceremoniously yeeted from the game in a few hours, but compare my cursory “ghug and Lamp are town” statements to my defense of Kak for example. The Kak one I actually did expect people to accept and follow me on and was disappointed when they didn’t. these not as much.

are you confident youve pushed enough of the right buttons that you have scum ready to fearkill you over others?

[BusinessLamp]

I don’t see that I’ve been inconsistent at all.

27 mins to go, I have a choice between TFB, Celaph, Chaqa and Kak. I’m town reading Celaph and Chaqa’s only -ve point is he wanted Celaph dead but that’s not really alignment indicative. So I was left choosing TFB over Kak, (who I’d already said I wouldn’t vote for easily). So TFB was best of bad choices.

Few minutes to go the two lead wagons were Celaph and Kak. As I town read Celaph, Kak was the only other choice unless someone got flash wagoned.

The problem is your townread of celaph materializes out of thin air, and contradicts

@chaqa and Ghug. Oh come on! Iso Celaph. They advise us that chickens eat carrots, politely stands up for Autists without attacking people, sees the best in Jamie and expresses concern for Macca’s situation. Sure they haven’t done anything to help town win the game, but we just can’t daykill them today and anyone trying to (looking at you Chaqa) is a monster.

where you indicate you have no townread of them. So when did that happen? Why?

[brainbomb]

chaqa is one of the most sophisticated and capable scum players ive ever seen. And I have seen him use at least 4 different scum
metas that are completely unalike.

So I am always worried about a chaqa on the loose. I feel sort of alright bout him currently and I could see him being town here. his deterministic attitude is more aggressive and pushes far into a scum meta he probably would have a very hard time maintaining. it is not like when he was scum with kgray at all.

For some perspective on this -

I don't really understand the concept of "a town meta" or "a scum meta" or "trying out a new meta"

Every game is different. Regardless of alignment, I approach every game and current situation in whatever way I think will best serve my win condition. This applies to even the types of things I will do. So when people say "don't do X is it's so scummy" or "Y behavior is scummy/anti-town/[insert insult here]" I don't really think that's anything except lazy, because there is always a reason to do something that might be valid, it's not always visible from an outside perspective.

TLDR meta isn't a real thing for me, though other players (like Sabi or HR) seem to like to force themselves into a certain style of play, which just seems fake and suspicious in general.

the fact that you play the board shows that you are thinking in terms of situational mafia which is why you are a diverse scum
player. The fact you are forthcoming about that shows a town mindset here once again.

[snowy801]

Why would I be trying to influence Blamp of all people?

A strange question. Why wouldn't they merely be the fish that got caught in your net?

You're the one who said it, I'm asking why?

I said no such thing.

Why would your actions influence Blamp specifically rather than anyone paying attention, and why did you attempt to frame the question in such a way that it implied that it would?

[BusinessLamp]

i just think scum in general try to blend in more, whereas chaqa's moving and shaking with his votes is more of a town instinct to me

It is certainly possible that this is true

I merely caution you against relying on it

super valid

[Chaqa]

Has Chaqa ever mention when and how long he was going to be afk before in a game? He sure didn't do it in m72.

What was the game where he lied about going on a date and was actually scum?

1. I do this all the time regardless of alignment, people always say it's scummy but it really isn't. Like one time I got daykilled because I had to go to the grocery store around the phase shift.

2. I really was on a date that game

I'm going to call bullshit on number one.

I'm at work so I don't have time to go look at more than your last four games (will read up more during lunch) but here is what I found so far:

M72: not once (VT)

M70: (not VT)

http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/ ... 81#p260781

M68: (not VT)

http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/ ... 71#p244071

http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/ ... 21#p244121

M67: (VT) not once

So you're proof is that one game I did it as Cop and the other I did it as scum? lmao

10/10 gg wp

[Chaqa]

Is anyone else being struck by how different Blamp is from last game?

I think he rolled his first scum game :D

does your scumread on chaqa relate to a feeling that this was a cheap shot? or opportunistic?

because at the time it was said I agreed with chaqa somewhat. In fact I was the first person who originally felt you were a great reread from last game and I wasnt seeing much in comparison at the time.

initial scumread came from:
-weird vibes from eden joke vote
-afk post
- reads list: "Blamp's phone thing is sus as hell. Vote him out." (which he later shrugged away as "sarcasm." but like... none of the rest of the post was joking...?)

i don't really mind people being sus on me because i'm acting different because, like, I am acting different. noticing that is fair. i know it's not scum-indicative but i can't expect others to feel the same.

it is still weird why chaqa moved onto kak in the first place after saying the kak wagon was bad. idkkkk

I really love people who refuse to read the reasons I give for shit I do and then act like it doesn't make sense.

Just like last game when people shaded me for voting Bona, when both myself and Bona understood completely why I did so.

[BusinessLamp]

i feel like a scenario that feels likely to me is that maniac is scum, picked town member celaph to randomly white knight for, and can't keep track of his justifications for it. that's why i think maniac before celaph. because like. Maniac!scum and celaph!town makes sense, as well as Maniac!scum and celaph!scum. maniac seems sus either way

[President Eden]

I was arguing the alacrity being utilized to force through a townread on someone who had been under scrutiny for admittedly all the wrong talking points day one but the question about business lamp being town is being settled before our eyes anyway so I will rest my case on the subject. I do think the bigger issue is Eden blanketing through a townread with no stated reason and expecting us to just eat it and swallow it. he did this with ghug as well.

on this point, I don’t actually expect people to drop what they’re doing and accept my preliminary townreads on ghug and Lamp as gospel. I do want to get my conclusions out in the event that I’m unable to elaborate further before being unceremoniously yeeted from the game in a few hours, but compare my cursory “ghug and Lamp are town” statements to my defense of Kak for example. The Kak one I actually did expect people to accept and follow me on and was disappointed when they didn’t. these not as much.

are you confident youve pushed enough of the right buttons that you have scum ready to fearkill you over others?

I’m sure it’s on the table. whether they actually do it, who knows. would need to know way more about their agenda for attacking the game to be sure. but I like to think I’ve done enough to merit considering it, hence the urgency in getting something out, before I run out of time.

[President Eden]

1. I do this all the time regardless of alignment, people always say it's scummy but it really isn't. Like one time I got daykilled because I had to go to the grocery store around the phase shift.

2. I really was on a date that game

I'm going to call bullshit on number one.

I'm at work so I don't have time to go look at more than your last four games (will read up more during lunch) but here is what I found so far:

M72: not once (VT)

M70: (not VT)

http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/ ... 81#p260781

M68: (not VT)

http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/ ... 71#p244071

http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/ ... 21#p244121

M67: (VT) not once

So you're proof is that one game I did it as Cop and the other I did it as scum? lmao

10/10 gg wp

*your