M73 - Fowl Play - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[President Eden]

no

[pyxxy]

[BesharamSabi]

Pyxxy you have caught up with the game yet and if so, what have your reads have been if you have any?

[TheFlyingBoat]

My reaction to snowy early on was a little bit of overly sensitive old school bb creeping through where I know this game is about reputation. I take my reputation seriously even though I have a weak reputation as a game solver. Last game I played was a very painful experience for me where I was wrong nonstop and watched the game slip away from me. I shouldve trusted the partnership I had with damo and I didnt. But I digress, snowys comment about me inevitably catching sabi and changing my mind bothered me in that moment because I had already decided sabi needed to be studied right away this game.

I didnt know how exactly to react and I wanted to see if snowy was A. trying to get me to stay stuck on sabi just to prove him wrong; or B. wanted to joke id inevitably leave the sabi FOS behind when other things began. Either way I was both taken aback, concerned, curious all at once.

I feel like my questions were pretty darn reasonable also. And snowy didnt really seem to give them any validity or actually respond to them. He posted onions and then a link comparing my playstyle to mass school shootings. And I decided he was just trying to troll me. rather than getting annoyed I decided that id just laugh it off and go play civ 6 and enjoy my night. played civ 6 from 5-1130 pm and checked game thread a few times.

thats about it. there was not a ducking per se.



@Sabi
I didnt ignore you I decided id make time to address your accusations and defenses

yes I do have it out to get you for a past game
yes I do think its unfair
I do think you are somewhat similar to that game but obviously when I first voted you I didnt know what would occur.

describe what is sus about me?

Had to step away for a second to take care of some interviews for a Diplomacy game happening today (You can watch coverage of the game and those interviews here in about 4 and a half hours: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5OVN-ZwXKo). Continuing with the catch up, ignoring the effects of snowy trolling you in your view, how has your read of Sabi evolved and why given their posts after you called them out?

[TheFlyingBoat]

Question for the class:

If someone says they are going to be an asshole this game and make it unenjoyable for anyone and if we have a problem we should suck it, is this anti-town?

Question for the Teacher:

I thought we were here to find the bad guys

Thank you

[TheFlyingBoat]

Question for the class:

If someone says they are going to be an asshole this game and make it unenjoyable for anyone and if we have a problem we should suck it, is this anti-town?

Question for the Teacher:

I thought we were here to find the bad guys

Question for the parent of the class:

Apparently according to eden it's anti town to point out Jamiet is making the game unenjoyable so I'm just carrying that message on.

I don't think Jamiet is scum (maybe less than 50% he is)

Blowing this up in the game thread while the game is ongoing isn't great. Either complain to the council or the GM or just try to play on.

[TheFlyingBoat]

Lmao please tell me how Jamiet spamming nonsense to those that voted for him and his constant reminder about how Maniac was an asshole so he’s going to be an asshole this game and that we can all suck it isn’t anti town? He was making the game unenjoyable.

I even vented about it in my submission to God chat and said if Jamiet didn’t stop this I was going to ask to be subbed out.

I genuinely don’t even think you understand what “anti-town” means and just turn it into “things that I don’t like.”

Jamie’s copypastas about physics or whatever are just as much “spamming nonsense” and “being an asshole this game” as Kak and Demon (who have done actual nothing besides meme wallposts) or even Bona (has been around and interacted with people but almost exclusively in a trolling or otherwise NAI way). In the interim he has actually made a couple of posts that attempt/appear to solve. Again, aside from his moment of snippiness with Bob which has more or less subsided, he’s really not been an issue in the game thread. Signup thread sure, but he was talked to about that, and he hasn’t carried over the bad attitude, just his promise to troll like he perceives Maniac to troll.

On the other hand, the fact that you dishonestly continue to try to frame it as worse than it is, in a way which is virtually guaranteed to piss him off and cause actual problems later, is most generously (for in game purposes) described as you trying to start drama because you enjoy it personally (and thus NAI), but is also quite fairly described as mafia deliberately trying to create a shitty thread environment.

You need to fucking stop it. There’s no way after a half dozen games that you genuinely believe what you’re doing to be productive. And if you continue to do things that are openly counterproductive for town then you give me no option but to kill you off, even though I would rather get other people.

Nailing exactly how I feel about it. Anyone else but Sabi and I would say scum. Because it's Sabi I'll lean NAI.

[ghug]

Somewhere, Durga threw up a little in her mouth and doesn't know why...

Durga loves me.

Implying durga loves anyone except kgray

I am kgray.

[TheFlyingBoat]

Hmm time to look at Jamiet post in iso:

He only had 2 semi game related post and one correcting someone. 27 of his other posts were spam or harassing Maniac.

well, that’s just not true, as I counted seven posts just on a half-assed skim that were directly engaging with the game, frankly all of which did so at a higher level than you.

#1
#2
#3
#4
#5
#6
#7

you are just outright ignoring what you don’t want to see and distorting what you do see into what you want to see.

to elaborate on that second point,

This is his response to me:

http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/ ... 80#p289780

He even admits to trying to make this game unenjoyable for others. So yes I’m going to bring it up.

literally where in that post. reproducing in post so that people following along can see what I mean:

How ironic that you of all people would say this.

My goal is to do whatever I like because apparently being an asshole is encouraged in this game. Maniac was an asshole last time, and everyone thinks that was just fine. I’ll do what I like this game, and you can all suck on it.

he says he’s “going to do whatever [he] like[s],” and “what [he] like[s] this game.” nothing in there about making the game unenjoyable for others. you have literally supplied that out of thin air because you, personally, don’t like the way he is approaching the game.

Atleast while I am “causing drama” I’m still trying to scum hunt. Even tho Jamiet is being an ass, I am not voting for him. If you think I’m ruining the game the vote for me.

I have no idea what to do with this post because if you’re not just mafia and bullshitting me here then this is a striking condemnation of your understanding of how scumhunting works.

you are just vaguely aping things other people have said and blatantly distorting what has been said by people you don’t like and slapping “town” and “anti-town” onto “things I like” and “things I dislike” respectively. there is no objective process, no theoretical underpinning behind why certain behaviors might come from town or mafia, no effort to engage with what people are doing beyond a surface level acknowledgment that it is happening. which I guess is sadly par for the course for webdip towns.

especially knowing that you spent multiple town games actively fostering an image of being new town just to exploit that image as mafia, what exactly am I meant to do with this performance except just assume you’re mafia doing it again and kill you?

I know I said I was going to be productive this morning but I'm drinking coffee and waiting for my Vyvanse to kick in so I can go do my errands. Time for my response:

"My goal is to do whatever I like because apparently being an asshole is encouraged in this game. "

This is not me trying to distort things. It is not a reach for me to say he came into this game being an asshole when his first 10 posts are being asshole esque. If he came into this game being nice I would not be" apeing" on him. He came into this game the way he did is what annoyed me.

If you are worried about how I am scum hunting, I actually have made a spread sheet (crossing out my notes for obvious reasons) so again don't tell me I don't know what I am doing.

https://ibb.co/nkFQqDR

Lastly I have been engaged with this game and have been commenting and questioning others posts. You can say what toy want about my engagement in this game but I am putting in effort.

Anyway I dunno why I'm arguing about this you thought I cheated on wordle last night so like lol.

Obviously some of those opinions you'll want to keep private to see how they evolve and respond without knowledge of your read on them, but is there anything in there you feel comfortable sharing? Because right now all I see is like a third of the players in the game randomly tossed into a column in a spreadsheet and that really tells me nothing.

[President Eden]

I think we should all pretend that we secretly think Sabi is the Cop and make a pact to never kill them so the mafia have to do it

more seriously I would rather not kill Sabi today if we can. despite all the criticism directed their way, I don’t actually feel confident in them being mafia. I will default back to there if we REALLY don’t have anything better, but I strongly encourage us to find better, because while Sabi hasn’t done anything exonerating yet, I don’t really have high confidence that they’ll flip mafia

[brainbomb]

Jamie is still very well within is scum meta. In fact I have a pretty funny theory

##vote Jamiet99uk

[BesharamSabi]

well, that’s just not true, as I counted seven posts just on a half-assed skim that were directly engaging with the game, frankly all of which did so at a higher level than you.

#1
#2
#3
#4
#5
#6
#7

you are just outright ignoring what you don’t want to see and distorting what you do see into what you want to see.

to elaborate on that second point,


literally where in that post. reproducing in post so that people following along can see what I mean:


he says he’s “going to do whatever [he] like[s],” and “what [he] like[s] this game.” nothing in there about making the game unenjoyable for others. you have literally supplied that out of thin air because you, personally, don’t like the way he is approaching the game.


I have no idea what to do with this post because if you’re not just mafia and bullshitting me here then this is a striking condemnation of your understanding of how scumhunting works.

you are just vaguely aping things other people have said and blatantly distorting what has been said by people you don’t like and slapping “town” and “anti-town” onto “things I like” and “things I dislike” respectively. there is no objective process, no theoretical underpinning behind why certain behaviors might come from town or mafia, no effort to engage with what people are doing beyond a surface level acknowledgment that it is happening. which I guess is sadly par for the course for webdip towns.

especially knowing that you spent multiple town games actively fostering an image of being new town just to exploit that image as mafia, what exactly am I meant to do with this performance except just assume you’re mafia doing it again and kill you?

I know I said I was going to be productive this morning but I'm drinking coffee and waiting for my Vyvanse to kick in so I can go do my errands. Time for my response:

"My goal is to do whatever I like because apparently being an asshole is encouraged in this game. "

This is not me trying to distort things. It is not a reach for me to say he came into this game being an asshole when his first 10 posts are being asshole esque. If he came into this game being nice I would not be" apeing" on him. He came into this game the way he did is what annoyed me.

If you are worried about how I am scum hunting, I actually have made a spread sheet (crossing out my notes for obvious reasons) so again don't tell me I don't know what I am doing.

https://ibb.co/nkFQqDR

Lastly I have been engaged with this game and have been commenting and questioning others posts. You can say what toy want about my engagement in this game but I am putting in effort.

Anyway I dunno why I'm arguing about this you thought I cheated on wordle last night so like lol.

Obviously some of those opinions you'll want to keep private to see how they evolve and respond without knowledge of your read on them, but is there anything in there you feel comfortable sharing? Because right now all I see is like a third of the players in the game randomly tossed into a column in a spreadsheet and that really tells me nothing.

The one for celaph (since it doesn't affect how he acts of I reveal) was that he took a long time to respond to my scum question even tho he was online and on the thread. It was an odd thing and it reminded that in m72 when he also took a long time to respond to questions even tho he was online and on the thread.

[BesharamSabi]

Durga loves me.

Implying durga loves anyone except kgray

I am kgray.

Congrats on being on the dbni top board

[TheFlyingBoat]

I will now be AFK for 1-4 hours because I have to do chores, eat dinner, and spend time the gf.

Why did you feel the need to tell us you're going to be away for potentially one hour?

The thing I feel uncomfortable about with TFB is that every post has been casual banter or a question he asks and then never seems to have any follow up or any additional question. And to me it looks like he is just trying to use really weak surface level things to look like hes hunting.

This is one example of three. his other question was to me about asking why snowy would want me to change my behavior or something and in that instance TFB never seems to have an opinion either way on the answers given.

I mean there are some things I want to see play out given what you and others have said in response to my questions. I think given my hit rate last game and my success rate in the double mafia game (before I admittedly blew it before I forced our way into a potential draw/bozo win depending on what Sabi did before it became a 3 way draw), I think my process of asking questions that get responses and seeing how people play after that and how it matches up with what I expect works fairly well. It generally leads to fairly accurate EoD2 reads lists.

[ghug]

I think we should all pretend that we secretly think Sabi is the Cop and make a pact to never kill them so the mafia have to do it

more seriously I would rather not kill Sabi today if we can. despite all the criticism directed their way, I don’t actually feel confident in them being mafia. I will default back to there if we REALLY don’t have anything better, but I strongly encourage us to find better, because while Sabi hasn’t done anything exonerating yet, I don’t really have high confidence that they’ll flip mafia

This post feels weird. As someone who's pretty meh on the wagon, it feels like you're projecting more pressure onto it than actually exists, and on top of that it reads like a post written a few hours before EoD rather than halfway through the phase.

[TheFlyingBoat]

onions

So what are these layers?

Like this is an example of just trying to fit into the conversation between snowy and myself but seems more like he wants to feed into snowys joking response to a serious question. So to me it feels like trying to put a stamp on keeping any seriousness out of this quote stream and encourages the joking aspect

I actually thought it was semi-serious trolling by Snowy where he actually had a point but was trying to be difficult about it. I figured if I pressed I'd get something useful explaining what those layers were. Turns out I was wrong.

[President Eden]

I think we should all pretend that we secretly think Sabi is the Cop and make a pact to never kill them so the mafia have to do it

more seriously I would rather not kill Sabi today if we can. despite all the criticism directed their way, I don’t actually feel confident in them being mafia. I will default back to there if we REALLY don’t have anything better, but I strongly encourage us to find better, because while Sabi hasn’t done anything exonerating yet, I don’t really have high confidence that they’ll flip mafia

This post feels weird. As someone who's pretty meh on the wagon, it feels like you're projecting more pressure onto it than actually exists, and on top of that it reads like a post written a few hours before EoD rather than halfway through the phase.

you feel weird

gottem

[bozotheclown]

Just checked my role pm.

kk I believe this I guess but still think you shouldn’t be able to post without knowing your role first

It used to be against the rules, but I am not sure if that rule is still in effect.

[TheFlyingBoat]

I think we should all pretend that we secretly think Sabi is the Cop and make a pact to never kill them so the mafia have to do it

more seriously I would rather not kill Sabi today if we can. despite all the criticism directed their way, I don’t actually feel confident in them being mafia. I will default back to there if we REALLY don’t have anything better, but I strongly encourage us to find better, because while Sabi hasn’t done anything exonerating yet, I don’t really have high confidence that they’ll flip mafia

This post feels weird. As someone who's pretty meh on the wagon, it feels like you're projecting more pressure onto it than actually exists, and on top of that it reads like a post written a few hours before EoD rather than halfway through the phase.

I don't think it is particularly weird. Eden's play feels very similar to the game where you and him had that big blow up where he spent the entire early game trying to coach Sabi on how to play. He was town that game. Now, maybe he is simply trying to mirror that this game, but I'd lean towards it being genuine rather than forged, at least for now.

[bozotheclown]

Why do you townlean Jamiet when he's being the worst part of this game

Unbelievably harsh when you give a pass to people like Maniac, who literally made posts like this:

“I did not have sexual relations with that woman” Bill Clinton

What’s interesting about this lie is that Bill avoids using the contraction ‘didn’t’ and also that he refers to Monica Lewinsky as ‘that woman’. Both of these are signs of lying. As with all verbal tells they aren’t 100% accurate of course but could be interesting none the less. The explanation of why people avoid contractions is because liars want to seem honest and precise. They think ‘did not’ sounds more convincing that ‘didn’t’.

So does this tell apply to mafia? I don’t know. Some people always avoid contractions and others may not have English as a first language. To really dig deep we’d have to establish what every player’s speech/typing pattern is when they’re town and then see if there is a change when they’re scum.

You think that's great Mafia townplay, apparently, yes?

I did not know there was a +1 competition