M73: Fowl Play

[worcej]

Having fun at the expense of other people's fun is just being a dick

No context for what Jamiet's going on about but I've definitely seen you do that before so be more aware of treading that line

@Maniac - If you looked at your participation, you were alive 13 phases and averaged only 5.3 posts/phase. The most posts you did in a single phase was 9 posts.

I'd like to ask if you were really having fun last game or not?

To me, as a an observer and eventually as a sub, my impression was you really didn't want to play the game and just were coasting. I totally respect that people can be busy IRL and not able to be a top poster, but again looking at the last game, the GM's had almost the same amount of posts as you (the Co-GM had more than you) and that's really not fair to the other players playing the game who have to figure out what you are in this game.

If you don't provide content for others to figure out your role, we cannot really play with you. If you think you were participating enough last game, I will tell you that from my perspective you weren't and I ultimately voted for you to be a daykill because you were actively not engaging and would've been an easy liability for town (my team after all) if you lived to Kilo.

I'd argue you were a bigger liability than maniac was late game, but that's neither here nor there. Yes, Maniac should post more but y'all should be less aggressive in hounding him like this before the game and focus on your own problems, namely being a massive prick to other players based on their identity, among other issues.

How about you take a moment and reflect on the fact I am trying to be constructive and just provide what I saw to Maniac as a way to communicate something without inserting drama that has nothing to do with you or anything to do with this conversation?

[worcej]

At no point have I said one thing rude to Maniac.

What fucking justification do you have to even reference any prior drama TFB?

[ghug]

Maniac obvtowned last game, and voted scum.
Sure he wasn't writing novels, but I'm really confused where all this backlash is coming from. Sometimes less is more.

I'm glad you thought that he obvtowned. If you would've lived past D1, maybe that would've been expressed more by the people alive. Also, your GT bias reflects on what you actively saw - I am providing another opinion as someone who actively was involved in the game when he was daykilled.

I agree less can be more, but there is such a thing as coming off as uninterested.

Plenty of living players thought he was obvtown too.

Even you thought he was town when you voted for him, though I'm loathe to point it out because you voting for your townreads more often would likely lead to better results for town.

[Maniac]

@WorceJ and @snowy

If we look at D7 if worce hadn’t replaced goldfinger we would’ve nailed Donny (all other things being equal) and by then I’d also made a strong case against Damo and because we would’ve had two town clears (me and gold/worce) we would’ve been favourites at that point.

I’m not going to criticise Worce, Jamie and Rdriveria for daykilling a clear cop scanned player (enough people have already done that), but I don’t think I’m fully responsible for that turn of events.

It’s hard to see oneself as others see you, but I thought I was obviously town.

It’s not all about high post rates. Sure others who post “^this” or “I agree” or bare votes will have more posts. Others will have wall posts that are hard to read. As it happens the night before I died I had the 3rd highest character count.

I read a lot without always making my thoughts known while I am still developing ideas. I try and stay alive anyway I can and sometimes being seen as useless stops a mafia nightkill. Being seen a useless doesn’t always equate to being useless (although I don’t pretend I caught many scum last game). Maybe my fake cop claim could’ve worked on another day, maybe that could help me/town in other games

I think some people will view my play as trolling or dickish no matter how I play. That’s a matter for them.

If anyone is expecting big changes, I think you’ll be disappointed. If the GMs want to remove me from the sign-up sheet, I’m cool with that if people want a Maniac free game.

Peace and love

[worcej]

Maniac obvtowned last game, and voted scum.
Sure he wasn't writing novels, but I'm really confused where all this backlash is coming from. Sometimes less is more.

I'm glad you thought that he obvtowned. If you would've lived past D1, maybe that would've been expressed more by the people alive. Also, your GT bias reflects on what you actively saw - I am providing another opinion as someone who actively was involved in the game when he was daykilled.

I agree less can be more, but there is such a thing as coming off as uninterested.

Plenty of living players thought he was obvtown too.

Even you thought he was town when you voted for him, though I'm loathe to point it out because you voting for your townreads more often would likely lead to better results for town.

The irony is not lost on me here...

[Durga]

Maniac you're a gem and I enjoy you in the games because people take this way too seriously.

On that note I'm withdrawing from this game, the sign up thread was enough for me LOL. Glhf all

[TheFlyingBoat]

Maniac obvtowned last game, and voted scum.
Sure he wasn't writing novels, but I'm really confused where all this backlash is coming from. Sometimes less is more.

I'm glad you thought that he obvtowned. If you would've lived past D1, maybe that would've been expressed more by the people alive. Also, your GT bias reflects on what you actively saw - I am providing another opinion as someone who actively was involved in the game when he was daykilled.

I agree less can be more, but there is such a thing as coming off as uninterested.

I mean I was there the turn he died actively pushing both damo and donny as was Maniac and as was ghug. You were self destructive to town's interest because you were insistent in conflating your dislike for his play with a belief that killing him was pro town either because he was scum or a liability. I can't believe weeks later you're still trying to argue that your decision at the time wasn't the dumbest play of the entire game after everyone told you so why it was dumb at the time with the knowledge we had then.

[worcej]

@WorceJ and @snowy

If we look at D7 if worce hadn’t replaced goldfinger we would’ve nailed Donny (all other things being equal) and by then I’d also made a strong case against Damo and because we would’ve had two town clears (me and gold/worce) we would’ve been favourites at that point.

I’m not going to criticise Worce, Jamie and Rdriveria for daykilling a clear cop scanned player (enough people have already done that), but I don’t think I’m fully responsible for that turn of events.

It’s hard to see oneself as others see you, but I thought I was obviously town.

It’s not all about high post rates. Sure others who post “^this” or “I agree” or bare votes will have more posts. Others will have wall posts that are hard to read. As it happens the night before I died I had the 3rd highest character count.

I read a lot without always making my thoughts known while I am still developing ideas. I try and stay alive anyway I can and sometimes being seen as useless stops a mafia nightkill. Being seen a useless doesn’t always equate to being useless (although I don’t pretend I caught many scum last game). Maybe my fake cop claim could’ve worked on another day, maybe that could help me/town in other games

I think some people will view my play as trolling or dickish no matter how I play. That’s a matter for them.

If anyone is expecting big changes, I think you’ll be disappointed. If the GMs want to remove me from the sign-up sheet, I’m cool with that if people want a Maniac free game.

Peace and love

To be crystal clear - I don't think you need to have a revolutionary change or anything, I'm just telling you what I saw and my conclusions at the time.

You've never been a top poster nor do I have any expectations of you to need to be - the post count/phase analysis was just highlighting that I had noticed you were doing less than normal and that influenced my decisions in the last game.

The fact you scummed goldie/me (also a semi-cleared cop scan) and were not majorly participating had me concerned because if you kept the same playstyle (again, I thought you were disinterested at the time) then you would've just defaulted to voting my slot at a time when that couldn't be afforded.

[TheFlyingBoat]

@Maniac - If you looked at your participation, you were alive 13 phases and averaged only 5.3 posts/phase. The most posts you did in a single phase was 9 posts.

I'd like to ask if you were really having fun last game or not?

To me, as a an observer and eventually as a sub, my impression was you really didn't want to play the game and just were coasting. I totally respect that people can be busy IRL and not able to be a top poster, but again looking at the last game, the GM's had almost the same amount of posts as you (the Co-GM had more than you) and that's really not fair to the other players playing the game who have to figure out what you are in this game.

If you don't provide content for others to figure out your role, we cannot really play with you. If you think you were participating enough last game, I will tell you that from my perspective you weren't and I ultimately voted for you to be a daykill because you were actively not engaging and would've been an easy liability for town (my team after all) if you lived to Kilo.

I'd argue you were a bigger liability than maniac was late game, but that's neither here nor there. Yes, Maniac should post more but y'all should be less aggressive in hounding him like this before the game and focus on your own problems, namely being a massive prick to other players based on their identity, among other issues.

How about you take a moment and reflect on the fact I am trying to be constructive and just provide what I saw to Maniac as a way to communicate something without inserting drama that has nothing to do with you or anything to do with this conversation?

You could just pm him instead of trying to drag him in public. And lol at you complaining about bringing in drama when your shtick here has already caused enough drama to cause one player to drop out and the player you're supposedly trying to "help" offer to quit.

[Fluminator]

gah just put me as a starter then. I want to get to the god thread party quicker.

[Durga]

gah just put me as a starter then. I want to get to the god thread party quicker.

This has to be top 10 anime betrayals

[worcej]

Maniac obvtowned last game, and voted scum.
Sure he wasn't writing novels, but I'm really confused where all this backlash is coming from. Sometimes less is more.

I'm glad you thought that he obvtowned. If you would've lived past D1, maybe that would've been expressed more by the people alive. Also, your GT bias reflects on what you actively saw - I am providing another opinion as someone who actively was involved in the game when he was daykilled.

I agree less can be more, but there is such a thing as coming off as uninterested.

I mean I was there the turn he died actively pushing both damo and donny as was Maniac and as was ghug. You were self destructive to town's interest because you were insistent in conflating your dislike for his play with a belief that killing him was pro town either because he was scum or a liability. I can't believe weeks later you're still trying to argue that your decision at the time wasn't the dumbest play of the entire game after everyone told you so why it was dumb at the time with the knowledge we had then.

You seem to want to pick a fight with me, so I'll bite.

"You were self destructive to town's interest because you were insistent in conflating your dislike for his play with a belief that killing him was pro town either because he was scum or a liability."

If you weren't so busy being a troll right now and assuming my intentions, you might actually chill the fuck out. Here is the exact post from the game when I voted him:

You know what? Fuck it Jamie, I’ll give you what you want despite me thinking it’s a shit idea.

Maniac is averaging only 5 posts a phase. If he’s town, he deserves to die because he’s worthless and a liability going forward.

If he’s scum, you’re almost certainly not scum and I’ll drop my scum read for at least a phase or 2.

##vote Maniac

Was this a great play? Obviously no, he was town.

Was it pro-town? At the time, I was strongly concerned that he was scum-reading my slot and was not including my participation in the slightest on that read. So I thought that it had the potential to be pro-town.

I can't believe weeks later you're still trying to argue that your decision at the time wasn't the dumbest play of the entire game after everyone told you so why it was dumb at the time with the knowledge we had then.

At no point have I said anything about the intelligence or validity of what I did post-game. I am offering what I thought DURING THE GAME.

Again, if you were trying to pay attention to what I am saying instead of picking a fight, you might understand that.

The only reason I posted here now was to try to be civil and provide some feedback on Maniac's specific play from last game. It isn't intended to be an attack in any way, so stop trying to paint it like that.

[aarodactyl]

@WorceJ and @snowy

If we look at D7 if worce hadn’t replaced goldfinger we would’ve nailed Donny (all other things being equal) and by then I’d also made a strong case against Damo and because we would’ve had two town clears (me and gold/worce) we would’ve been favourites at that point.

I’m not going to criticise Worce, Jamie and Rdriveria for daykilling a clear cop scanned player (enough people have already done that), but I don’t think I’m fully responsible for that turn of events.

It’s hard to see oneself as others see you, but I thought I was obviously town.

It’s not all about high post rates. Sure others who post “^this” or “I agree” or bare votes will have more posts. Others will have wall posts that are hard to read. As it happens the night before I died I had the 3rd highest character count.

I read a lot without always making my thoughts known while I am still developing ideas. I try and stay alive anyway I can and sometimes being seen as useless stops a mafia nightkill. Being seen a useless doesn’t always equate to being useless (although I don’t pretend I caught many scum last game). Maybe my fake cop claim could’ve worked on another day, maybe that could help me/town in other games

I think some people will view my play as trolling or dickish no matter how I play. That’s a matter for them.

If anyone is expecting big changes, I think you’ll be disappointed. If the GMs want to remove me from the sign-up sheet, I’m cool with that if people want a Maniac free game.

Peace and love

The best thing to come out of last game was contraction theory so if anyone has a problem with you, they need to up their game.

[worcej]

I'd argue you were a bigger liability than maniac was late game, but that's neither here nor there. Yes, Maniac should post more but y'all should be less aggressive in hounding him like this before the game and focus on your own problems, namely being a massive prick to other players based on their identity, among other issues.

How about you take a moment and reflect on the fact I am trying to be constructive and just provide what I saw to Maniac as a way to communicate something without inserting drama that has nothing to do with you or anything to do with this conversation?

You could just pm him instead of trying to drag him in public. And lol at you complaining about bringing in drama when your shtick here has already caused enough drama to cause one player to drop out and the player you're supposedly trying to "help" offer to quit.

Dude, don't "lol" me when you inserted yourself when I add my thoughts/comments and while doing it bring up drama you're not even involved in and are continuing to try to paint what I am saying as negative.

If Durga is quitting the game because of my posts right now, let her say that.

If Maniac thinks I am attacking him, let him say that.

[TheFlyingBoat]

@WorceJ and @snowy

If we look at D7 if worce hadn’t replaced goldfinger we would’ve nailed Donny (all other things being equal) and by then I’d also made a strong case against Damo and because we would’ve had two town clears (me and gold/worce) we would’ve been favourites at that point.

I’m not going to criticise Worce, Jamie and Rdriveria for daykilling a clear cop scanned player (enough people have already done that), but I don’t think I’m fully responsible for that turn of events.

It’s hard to see oneself as others see you, but I thought I was obviously town.

It’s not all about high post rates. Sure others who post “^this” or “I agree” or bare votes will have more posts. Others will have wall posts that are hard to read. As it happens the night before I died I had the 3rd highest character count.

I read a lot without always making my thoughts known while I am still developing ideas. I try and stay alive anyway I can and sometimes being seen as useless stops a mafia nightkill. Being seen a useless doesn’t always equate to being useless (although I don’t pretend I caught many scum last game). Maybe my fake cop claim could’ve worked on another day, maybe that could help me/town in other games

I think some people will view my play as trolling or dickish no matter how I play. That’s a matter for them.

If anyone is expecting big changes, I think you’ll be disappointed. If the GMs want to remove me from the sign-up sheet, I’m cool with that if people want a Maniac free game.

Peace and love

I think you should post more but for whatever little my 2 cents matter, I'd rather see you play than not.

[Chaqa]

Having fun at the expense of other people's fun is just being a dick

No context for what Jamiet's going on about but I've definitely seen you do that before so be more aware of treading that line

@Maniac - If you looked at your participation, you were alive 13 phases and averaged only 5.3 posts/phase. The most posts you did in a single phase was 9 posts.

I'd like to ask if you were really having fun last game or not?

To me, as a an observer and eventually as a sub, my impression was you really didn't want to play the game and just were coasting. I totally respect that people can be busy IRL and not able to be a top poster, but again looking at the last game, the GM's had almost the same amount of posts as you (the Co-GM had more than you) and that's really not fair to the other players playing the game who have to figure out what you are in this game.

If you don't provide content for others to figure out your role, we cannot really play with you. If you think you were participating enough last game, I will tell you that from my perspective you weren't and I ultimately voted for you to be a daykill because you were actively not engaging and would've been an easy liability for town (my team after all) if you lived to Kilo.

I'd argue you were a bigger liability than maniac was late game, but that's neither here nor there. Yes, Maniac should post more but y'all should be less aggressive in hounding him like this before the game and focus on your own problems, namely being a massive prick to other players based on their identity, among other issues.

Worcej has done nothing like that either in this thread or in the previous game.

The Kouncil is prepared to put an end to all personal attacks. This post does not reach that point, mind you, but there is no need to dredge up any past events or personal grudges anyone has, as this can only lead to further drama.

TFB, this is not directed at you really, but it bringing it up has allowed for a good place to remind everyone where stand.


Any personal attacks going forward will be punished. Eden has previously put people on notice and this is my friendly reminder.

[Durga]

No I'm not quitting bc of posts by worcej that I didn't read in the first place

[ghug]

#teammaniac

[Durga]

Spelling council with a K is really irritating

[Chaqa]

From my view as a player -

Worcej, you played pretty bad. But in previous games I've often agreed with your logic. Take this one as an L and refine your game.

Maniac - I thought you were pretty obvious town post cop claim. A few more posts would be nice, however.