M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[BobMcBob]

##vote Jamie

[worcej]

I think damo is stuck in a tunnel on me and has done nothing else for days, we should vote him out because it would be a disaster if he was still alive tomorrow.

If there are two scum in ghug, me and worcej, I think we've lost.

Pot, meet Kettle.

Worcej, meet unable to pick sarcasm from a mile out.

Your sarcasm could use some more obviousness

[worcej]

I honestly can't be bothered arguing against someone who has a proud history of stubbornly miskilling people even when they're obviously town, someone who will flip people even if they think they're town for "value", and someone who locks themselves into idiotic conclusions so hard that they have already said at least three confirmed town "must be scum" already this game. Especially when I have already thoroughly explained basically every part of the case against me, often twice.

If either Donny or rdr are scum, we might as well have already lost today's vote.

Ghug, rdr and Donny, if you're all town and don't think I'm scum, we need to vote together today in order to not get another miskill. The other option of course being convincing one of three most stubborn players in the game to change their vote, which they have no intention of doing.

I'm happy to vote for whoever we can manage to collect 4 votes onto, even if that somehow turns out to be Donny.

You have been scumming my slot with an innocent scan from your cop…

And then you don’t even care who gets voted for as long as you get 4 votes? Like… what?…

[worcej]

But some quick explainers for other things I haven't actually explained yet. When I said that thing about ghug, I didn't mean I would actively throw the game to ghug if he was obviously scum, but that I heavily townread him and if he is scum he probably will win just because he's played well. I highly doubt there are any reasonable scenarios where ghug actually gets daykilled and is scum, hence my statement.

Also me scumreading worcej should only be a problem for town in the endgame if you believe worcej is town, and also think scum will mysteriously join me on a worcej push tomorrow and that I won't find that at all suspicious. Which is unlikely.

Also I see worcej saying I am a low experience scum player. I am not. I have rolled scum in roughly half my games, have been appraised as a convincing scum player, and my mechanical ineptitude mostly only extends to night-action targets. Painting me as a weak scum player to explain away the fact that my vote on TFB would be pretty near idiotic as scum is very convenient and also not at all accurate.

I've hedged reads far worse than I have in this game as both town and scum. I have done exactly the same reads "progression" I've done on goldcej in my town game in Champs, and I would find it difficult to call that replicating my town meta as scum when nobody on the site was in the other game (or cared about it). This is absolutely not consisstent with my scumgame.

Also why the heck does worcej have a scumpairing he's very passionate about that he is currently not voting inside of?

Just like his ancestor goldfinger, worcej entirely ignores the fact that I say a similar thing about "expecting to scumread" in my celpah iso. Also if I scumread someone I do in fact scumread them. I don't not scumread them. If they have done things that are scummy and not things that are towny, then I will naturally scumread them. I am not however immune to changing my mind based on what I see in an iso. And also worcej is coming at that entire point from the assumption that I'm town, which is not a good reason to vote me...

No dude, I actively scumread you. Just if you’re town, you being gone is a still net positive in my eyes. Just like Maniac being gone now, contrary to what ghug believes.

Back to you: It isn’t helpful to say that you will throw the game to ghug and now try to walk that back. You seem to say something but mean another.

It also isn’t helpful to town to not care who dies as long as it isn’t you. That’s incredibly scummy.

[BobMcBob]

So you would prefer me to self vote like Bona? Everybody sure was praising him for that. I obviously have my preferences, but I'd rather a decent chance of hitting scum today then literally no chance. You voted Maniac who had an innocent scan from our cop.

Also I never said I would throw to scum!ghug, I said that if he is scum I think we lose regardless, and I'm okay with that because he played well. There is a significant difference, but I am no longer under the illusion that you care unless you can use it against me.

[BobMcBob]

Let's tread out worcej's list of statements on how I have and should play:

I should not try to save myself
I should care who dies
I should be making pushes
I should not be making any of the pushes I am making
I am not making pushes
I am making dumb pushes
I should not vote an inno scan
Voting for inno scans is entirely accpetable
My voting has no purpose
I have been instrumental in killing multiple town (all of which I was the last vote on a minute from the end when the outcome was decided)
I have not been instrumental in killing any scum (where my voting onto them was exactly the same)
My reads are too weak and hedgy
My reads are too strong
I am not adjusting my reads enough
My reads are too uncertain

From this I can build up a clear picture of exactly how worcej wants me to play. He wants me to create a second account, sign up with that too, and play two completely different games at once.

[BobMcBob]

Also I'm pretty sure I don't explain my thoughts this elaborately when I'm scum. Anyway, I'm proably gonna go do a Durga until EoD, inevitably flip as town, and then either get flamed for not trying hard enough to defend myself by people who wouldn't have listened anyway, or have them all pretend that it was absolutely the right choice to make.

Then everybody in the godthread will be disappointed in Jamie again if he's town, or disappointed in town if he's scum. If Jamie is town he'll absolutely flame me for this post and pretend that he was justified in flipping me. If worcej is scum you'll never hear the end of it, and if he's town he'll continue to be just as hypocritcal and insulting after the game is over in an attempt to justify his stupid actions to himself. If ghug is town, he'll probably be disappointed I didn't defend myself more, but also disappointed that damo and Jamie and worcej continued to vote me. Rdr will be confused. Donny will be lazy.

If rdr is scum we will almost guaranteed lose. If worcej is scum we will also almost certainly lose, despite my best efforts. If the team is ghug and Jamie we'll lose. If Donny is town we'll probably lose. In fact I really can't see many scenarios where we win from here.

So good game scum (pre-emptively), I'll be around for EoD voting just in case, but I don't feel like defending myself any further when nobody is going to listen and I'm just going to be continually insulted. I'm off to be disappointed and frustrated with the rest of the godthread, presumably.

[rdrivera2005]

This Bob wagon stinks. I think both scum are on it, probably Worcej and Damo.

My best bet is still Damo that used that trash argument from Worcej to justify this votes. I agree with Bob here, if Ghug is scum we probably lost already and this is not a reason to vote anyone. Also, the liability reason is another rubbish argument, if someone is a liability is Donny, like Ghug already pointed.

Damo´s play here isn´t his usual town play. He will be a lot more indignant with the last misskils and I don´t see town Damo just ignoring math and voting Maniac like last day and ignoring this aspect at all.

I really hope the reamaining town can also see this and join me on Damo, otherwise we will lose.

[Jamiet99uk]

##vote Jamie

Why are you voting for me?

[Jamiet99uk]

So you would prefer me to self vote like Bona? Everybody sure was praising him for that. I obviously have my preferences, but I'd rather a decent chance of hitting scum today then literally no chance. You voted Maniac who had an innocent scan from our cop.

There is a difference between (a) voting for your top scumread and trying to persuade others about why you think that person is scum, and (b) voting for anyone at all "as long as it ain't me".

(a) is better than (b) as I'm sure you can understand.

So, why am I your top scumread, and for what reasons?

Let's discuss your current case on me, at this point in the game. I don't want to be miskilled, so give me the opportunity to respond to your accusations.

[Jamiet99uk]

Also I'm pretty sure I don't explain my thoughts this elaborately when I'm scum. Anyway, I'm proably gonna go do a Durga until EoD, inevitably flip as town, and then either get flamed for not trying hard enough to defend myself by people who wouldn't have listened anyway, or have them all pretend that it was absolutely the right choice to make.

Then everybody in the godthread will be disappointed in Jamie again if he's town, or disappointed in town if he's scum. If Jamie is town he'll absolutely flame me for this post and pretend that he was justified in flipping me. If worcej is scum you'll never hear the end of it, and if he's town he'll continue to be just as hypocritcal and insulting after the game is over in an attempt to justify his stupid actions to himself. If ghug is town, he'll probably be disappointed I didn't defend myself more, but also disappointed that damo and Jamie and worcej continued to vote me. Rdr will be confused. Donny will be lazy.

If rdr is scum we will almost guaranteed lose. If worcej is scum we will also almost certainly lose, despite my best efforts. If the team is ghug and Jamie we'll lose. If Donny is town we'll probably lose. In fact I really can't see many scenarios where we win from here.

So good game scum (pre-emptively), I'll be around for EoD voting just in case, but I don't feel like defending myself any further when nobody is going to listen and I'm just going to be continually insulted. I'm off to be disappointed and frustrated with the rest of the godthread, presumably.

Actually I am willing to engage with you, just as I have engaged with you at multiple points in this game.

However, having a temper tantrum like this does you no favours.

[Jamiet99uk]

This Bob wagon stinks. I think both scum are on it, probably Worcej and Damo.

My best bet is still Damo that used that trash argument from Worcej to justify this votes. I agree with Bob here, if Ghug is scum we probably lost already and this is not a reason to vote anyone. Also, the liability reason is another rubbish argument, if someone is a liability is Donny, like Ghug already pointed.

Damo´s play here isn´t his usual town play. He will be a lot more indignant with the last misskils and I don´t see town Damo just ignoring math and voting Maniac like last day and ignoring this aspect at all.

I really hope the reamaining town can also see this and join me on Damo, otherwise we will lose.

I asked a question about Damo earlier, and I have not seen your answer to it.

This is somewhat odd if you are serious about flipping Damo.

Are you keeping up with the thread?

[Jamiet99uk]

Current gamestate from my POV:

- Ghug, Worcej and Bob are at least making an effort, whichever alignments they are. I hope I am as well, despite Ghug's harsh words to the contrary. I am not scum and I would like to win.

- Donny is totally absent and is presumably in violation of the amorphous participation requirements we now suffer under.

- Damo has not posted for some time and is playing in a robotic fashion that is starting to concern me.

- Rdrivera is paying only minimal attention to the thread, apparently logging in about once every 12 hours, reacting to the bot, and commenting on the first relevant post he sees on the latest page but otherwise missing things (such as my question about Damo buddying, even though Damo is apparently his top scumread so surely such a question would be interesting to him)...

[Jamiet99uk]

My other observation is that we killed Bonatogether far too early, and my +1 rate is suffering as a result. Bona must be allowed to live until the endgame in every future game.

[BobMcBob]

Jamie if you will consider moving your vote I will consider actually making a push today. But as long as three votes remain on me there is nothing I can do except either give up or vote in self defence.

[Jamiet99uk]

Jamie if you will consider moving your vote I will consider actually making a push today. But as long as three votes remain on me there is nothing I can do except either give up or vote in self defence.

Persuade me to move my vote by explaining who is a better candidate than you, and why.

[Jamiet99uk]

^ My point is, defending yourself, as you are doing, is natural, but it only goes so far. You also need to give us a better candidate.

You seem to think that Worcej is scum. Yet you also savagely attacked people, including me, for being stupid enough to vote for Maniac when he had been copscanned as innocent. Why does the same not apply to Worcej who was also scanned innocent?

[damo666]

Damo, why is worcej suddenly in your scumpool after you hard defended him for the past three days and showed no sign of ever considering him to maybe be scum?

He isn't.

I assume you are referring to my post # 6240 with my scum to town list. Worcej is at the bottom i.e. least scum/most town. I should have written TOWN underneath for clarity I suppose.

Who does a reads list and puts the town at the bottom?

Weirdo.

Because I was listing who I think is scum and I ended up listing everyone. Not so weird.

[BobMcBob]

^ My point is, defending yourself, as you are doing, is natural, but it only goes so far. You also need to give us a better candidate.

You seem to think that Worcej is scum. Yet you also savagely attacked people, including me, for being stupid enough to vote for Maniac when he had been copscanned as innocent. Why does the same not apply to Worcej who was also scanned innocent?

Because regardless of what you think, Maniac was not scummy. Not the case with worcej.

Candidates I would vote for that you might theoretically consider voting for are damo and worcej. Worcej I have explained to great length. You have ignored it every time.

Damo is mainly by PoE from my perspective, where I don't believe ghug or rdr to be scum, but damo has had awful voting so far as well as pretty poor logic, a largely unexplained flip to suddenly scumreading Maniac, and various other inconsistencies when it suits him.

I would also vote for Donny over myself but I don't really want to.

##vote damo

[damo666]

Current gamestate from my POV:

- Ghug, Worcej and Bob are at least making an effort, whichever alignments they are. I hope I am as well, despite Ghug's harsh words to the contrary. I am not scum and I would like to win.

- Donny is totally absent and is presumably in violation of the amorphous participation requirements we now suffer under.

- Damo has not posted for some time and is playing in a robotic fashion that is starting to concern me.

- Rdrivera is paying only minimal attention to the thread, apparently logging in about once every 12 hours, reacting to the bot, and commenting on the first relevant post he sees on the latest page but otherwise missing things (such as my question about Damo buddying, even though Damo is apparently his top scumread so surely such a question would be interesting to him)...

Not posted in a while because Monday night is pub poker night.