MAFIA XXXVIII: INFINITY WAR

[damo666]

Vecna I only added you as a wind up. The list is really only the four.

I have stopped biting your ankles (for the time being anyway).

[Vecna]

Hurray

[Vecna]

Hello dead ezio browsing the forum.

[brainbomb]

I just did a huge ghug iso with analysis post by post and lost it all.

My TLDR was that ghug is in fact town.

With a very large, very disappointed sigh


I had good analysis too. His ISO is better than id realized

[rdrivera2005]

I catch up reading and confess I don't have much to say, I feel like the mechanics are far more important then the scum hunt.

I have done a quick re-readead of the EOD and the scummiest vote for me is Bozo. After all we discussed about the SK and the need of two votes lead to ensure the lynch can't see a reason for a town to risk a tie the way he did.

I also don't think scum will try to stole the Soul Stone. Town don't have an investigative role, only a weak tracker and scum can't win against a SK with the Soul stone so why take this risk? They could try it if their odds to win in the regular way is low, but can't see them taking this risk now.

[brainbomb]

As a side note I think ghug plays these games with the added challenge of making people think hes scum for fun. He spent alot of time ruffling feathers, toxifying players like ND, worcej for good reason, and shyed away from upsetting me or Jamie. Ghug avoids me when hes scum.


However, he goes for quality low hanging fruit as scum, in past day 1 he has tried downing notable players like fluminator.

Here he didnt seem settled. Ezio stressed how important evaluating ghug was, and ghug was reading ezio as scum buddying. So ghug as scum throwing around this many scumreads puts him into unlikely anti spew territory.

[Vecna]

We just need the vig to not insta-shoot again since he only has 1 shot left....and the vig is actually a very important part of the town killing ability in this setup.

Having to lynch all 5 baddies is.....a pretty uphill battle with this SK running around with his toys.

[brainbomb]

Take-aways from ghug is he wont give you a whole lot of reasons why his reads are scum, but he will give enough scumreads that itd be foolish to do so as scum.

For example, ghug scumreading squiggs, ND, y2k, darg, bo, HR shows ghug isnt afraid of anyone. Hes also not afraid of what damage he would be doing. His lack of stated reasoning actually helps him regardless of ai

[damo666]

Had a look at D1 voting and all I can discern is:

Ezio voters (Bozo, Squiggs, Xorxes & Ghug) slightly increased probabilty of being scum

Bozo's late switch from darg -> bo is a bit odd

[yavuzovic]

A post from brain:

BismarckAlive. Null
Bo. Null
bozo. Town
brainbomb. Gamora. Clear
ChippeRock. Town
damo666. Null
Darg. Very.light Scumlean
DoubtingThoma​s. Null
Ezio. Null
flash2015. Null
Foxcastle. Town
Ghug. Town
HR . Null
Jamiet99uk. Null
ND. Null
rdriv​era2005. Town
snowy801. Town
Squigs44. Town
Vecna. Town
worcej. Town
xorxes. Town
y2kjbk. Scumlean
Yavuzovic. Null
(Yavuzovic's note: I cut many space to make it shorter, but only spaces, I didn't change anything)

He stated many people as town, even though it was early game. We see his town pool is: 'bozo, chippe, Foxcastle, ghug, rivera, snowy, squigs,vecna, worcej, xorxes' ; null pool is: 'BA, bo, damo, DT, ezio, flash, HR,Jamie, ND, yavuzovic' ;
scumpool is: ' Dargorygel, y2k'

You started to say "how will you relate these", I'll show after listing who BB has voted:
ND, dargorygel, y2k, ezio, flash, bo_, ghug, Jamie.
We can see his reads didn't change much. Only ghug was on his town pool.

Ok ##Vote ghug
Fucker must die asap.

that is a joke vote and he changed this two hours later.

We're coming to the point. Brain voted for the people who he had decided before. This is a very deep read - probably deepest read I've ever made. He has a list and votes for the people on that list. He selected some towns to buddy. I know this very well. We played a game with brain on MU and he buddied me all game long. And at the end, he was mafia. As I said, he is buddying some players, and he already has decided who he will vote for. You'll see, he will push me very bad after that. I believe there are his scummates at both sides.

The sad thing is, even if he's on the top of my scumreads, I'm not going to vote him because he is only Gamora claimer.

If we have another Gamora, claim now, please.

[brainbomb]

BOSOX48 ISO

□complains 19 pages after 5 hours
□talks about why ghug was made an admin
□says xorxes is playing his scum meta

scum.
bo_sox48
Day-1 30:16
page 29
↑brainbomb: "Ehhhh what do you mean specifically"
He's picking up on subtle things, pointing them out, and then doing nothing with it. It's a very easy style of play when you have information handed to you early on. Make yourself look smart and then dip out of the conversation. His whole deal on darg is so subtle and hardly meaningful and yet here we are 20 pages down the road and he's being praised for being the oh so intelligent god of mafia for it. He's riding the wave, whether intentionally or not.

I'm not actively scumreading him, but his game doesn't seem to me like something scum xorxes wouldn't do

This seems like an awful safe position for bo to take. After a long explanation he doubles back and now xorx isnt a scumread after all.

Pg35
□bo says yavuz is getting bussed

Proceeds to vote yav

bo_sox48
Day-1 26:33
page 35 I feel like yavuz is getting bussed.

□decides darg danced around flashes questions

in the day.
bo_sox48
Day-1 25:46
page 36 Okay, but if we force flash, xorxes, Ezio, y2k, ghug, yavuz, and yourself to bail on the people you're voting on and pick someone who has multiple votes to try and establish the day's wagons then we're robbing ourselves of information that comes down the line as people flip, which is when we have our best shot of determining what all of our intentions were with the votes that we cast.

Do you think that we should have information on the scumteam by now? How do you suppose we get it?

This post confuses me, I have no idea how we would "force" these people to change their minds anyway.

se we get it?
bo_sox48
Day-1 25:12
page 36
↑Squigs44: "Who is bussing Yavuz? Why do you think this?"
Thanks for asking. I’ll take this as a reminder to ##VOTE yavuz.

Initially, I was thinking that DT and Foxcastle might have been bussing him but I don't think that entirely anymore. I’m still on board with a Fox-yavuz team, though. You pointed out that DT's play has been "out in the open" so I reread him myself and I agree with you. Fox, though, rubbed me the wrong way with this:
↑Foxcastle: "Yavuz seems off. He's usually more willing to engage, usually more willing to read up, and unusually willing to vote wit..."
At first glace, I agreed with him. I thought it was a good point. I noticed that he made the point and disappeared, which is important. Then, I reread yavuz. His vote on you, Squiggles, was classic yavuz. He took something you said and ignored all of the possibilities except for one that he wanted to go with, which is that you are the serial killer and you faked a slip so that nobody would catch you. What isn’t classic yavuz is that he is blatantly going against his own views by keeping his vote on you instead of throwing it all over like he often does, and by keeping his vote on you and trying to catch the SK, he is actively avoiding scumhunting despite reminding us on a couple of occasions that it's more important to catch the mafia team than the SK.

On page 34, yavuz reinforced my stance with this gem:
↑yavuzovic: "I wonder what brain meant with asking why I'm voting for SK.
I said we should use all our power to find the SK, I didn't..."
a) yavuz said you, Squiggles, are the SK.
b) if yavuz prefers lynching scum to lynching the SK, why is he voting for the guy who he thinks slipped SK instead of someone else? Remember that he reinforced his vote on you on page 32, switching back from voting for Fox earlier on page 32 for… reasons.
c) if yavuz thinks flash slipped SK as well, as he said on page 33, why is his vote still on you for slipping SK? Why is he saying that we should focus on the mafia team putting all of his effort into asking the GMs about SK mechanics and voting for people he thinks slipped SK?

I think three things are happening: first of all, yavuz voted for Fox on page 32 for basically nothing, which should have signified that he was leaving the “case” on you, Squigs, behind. Instead, he jumped back off of Fox and back onto you, and then all of a sudden picked up the case on you again. It made no sense at the time, but given the idea that yavuz doesn't want us to notice that he isn't scumhunting, it makes some metric of sense that he would drop a vote on a teammate and then go back to what he was doing. Second of all, Fox posted what I quoted above on page 33, after yavuz voted for him. He is upset that yavuz just needlessly connected the two of them and he is trying to separate himself from him. He doesn’t vote for him, or pressure him, or ask him anything - he just says what he says and waltzes off. He just leaves a tidbit of a scumread against his teammate, who for obvious reasons is really easy to scumread. Third of all, yavuz is hunting hard for the SK and not hard for mafia because they’re his teammates. The only information he doesn’t have is who the SK is and that bothers him. That's why he's been playing the way he has so far.

□VERY long explanation why yavuz is being bussed by fox. Bo posts long winded stuff like this more as scum than town. And this explanation just feels so heavy with un-bo like reasoning.

□last min switch to darg

I don't know why momentum on him disappeared but it coincided with him disappearing too. He should be a wagon.

Probably won't be back before EOD. Don't lynch me, please.

□Bo reiterates why yavuz is scum

1&user=bo_sox48
bo_sox48
Day-1 01:20
page 58 It's also worth noting that nobody is voting for yavuz right now, so the case on him isn't particularly relevant, but I'll sum it up.

a) I believe that he voted for Fox for no reason as a brief bus and then decided against it, changing his vote back to Squigs. This upset Fox, so he introduced a scumread on yavuz but never pursued it. This seems like scum teammate behavior to me. If you disagree, let's talk about it during the night.

b) Yav spent all of his time up to the point where I made my case trying to figure out who the serial killer was. He did very little, if any, scumhunting.

c) Yav continued voting for Squigs after thinking he caught him earlier in the game slipping SK despite more recently calling out flash for slipping SK. If his most recent thought is that the SK is flash, why was he maintaining his vote for and case on Squigs? I scumread flash, which I wasn't very clear on, so again, I wonder if he is a teammate.

d) Yav has since OMGUSed me despite initially, and as recently as a few hours ago, calling me likely town for my "aggressive" case against him

□says yav bussed fox and fox got mad
□yav didnt scumhunt
□thinks flash is scum with yav
□yav omgused him (which yav only omgus votes as town)

□tells Jamie he would lynch ND if so many dumbasses werent trying to lynch him.

↑yavuzovic: "I want to ask why did you claim I was bussed. You told us about that butyou were speaking certainly and your evidences w..."
I explained in plain terms to Squigs that I thought you were being bussed by DT and Fox, but backed off of that claim on DT. I made it clear why I think Fox bussed you. I'm an open minded person and willing to admit when I might be wrong, so if you have an actual defense to that piece of my case, let's hear it.

TLDR: This is more convoluted than town bo reasoning. Worrying about bussing and bussers. Hes doing things that are easily dismissed with a single flip. Hes charactetizing yavuz in a deep way that yavuz simply doesnt do.

Bo is SCUM

[brainbomb]

Bo is way out of character.
Hes a mans man, enjoys a thunderstorm, his guns, and papa johns pizza. He likes sports, and the art of diplomacy. He hates overly complicated reasons for things unless hes scum.

If offered a chance for a diet coke and a morning blowjob, or cafe au lait and having to meet the parents, bo is all about the former. Simple is best,simpler is easier.

Complicated bosplaining is a sign he doesnt actually want you to buy into his posts he just wants you to.think hes thinking.

[RagingIke297]

I'll post my reads later... but here are my reactions to the last half of yesterday and this morning.

About HR… at first I was wondering if the Space Stone had been used on him. But then he posted. And then he posted in the beginning of the night. I suspect this stone will be used later, perhaps to attempt to ‘clear’ a scum.

The Vig in this game is very powerful, with his rechargeable weapon. I expect that (other than the SK) mafia will be spending a lot of effort and energy to find him. Including using the Reality Stone. So that verifiable statement by ChippeRock is bad. But not just if any of the scum are on the list Chippe gave. Scum can still logically deduce from the list. Perhaps by pushing lynches on the other unsure players. So while not giving carte blanche freedom to people on that list, we need to be watchful for odd behavior towards them.

@brainbomb
I like this calmer brain.

The likelihood that I am not SK does give me slightly more chance to be town, but also slightly more chance to be scum, so I am not sure that ghug’s switch to me carries any shade with it. But the fact that he switched to me at all casts personal shade, from my perspective. I didn’t really understand his push on me… you mention my conversation with ND… and I wonder if that seemed odd to him (and you) because you forgot that he and I GMed together last game…

Also @brain
I don’t think you are cleared. Hiding as Gamora (the real one not likely to CC, of course) is a safe seeming place, I would imagine. Either if you are the SK, OR if you are scum or town, it is very safe because we are unlikely to randomly or knee-jerk lynch you. And this sounds exactly like what Brainbomb might do. So not cleared… but maybe safe for a bit?

And also @brain
I didn’t interpret your claim as responding to instruction by ghug and xorxes. Brain does what brain wants. YES, they said that gamora should claim, but I read that as g and x dropping ideas to get reaction. No one else in the room ‘told’ you to do it. I think you did what you wanted to do, at the exact timing of the convenient discussion in the room.

@bo
Your vote switch is townie, to me. And your statements during it… the one place I don’t yet have traction is your urging me to omgus you. I regret not thinking through it more carefully before I did it. But as I said, it didn’t seem to matter much where I plopped my vote. I asked earlier, and assume missed it in the plethora of posts… but why did you urge me to vote for you?

Later all.

pretty sure if any stone (especially the space stone) is used, then we get a puhlic message saying that stone's been used, without the information on who used it

Space stone does give a public message when used. Ex. Blue whisps swirl around ragingike297, suddenly he vanishes. The space stone has been used to teleport ragingike297 to the far reaches of the universe, he will return at the beginning of N2

##CALL GM - How literal will you answer the question for the reality-stone's lie detector power? If a question contains likely, can you still answer it? Or does it have to be formulated in a literal sense. (Aka, are you going to answer very strictly to what is stated in a sentence, or allow some more leeway to allow for the obvious intent to what they want to know to help scum?)

For this I'm going to be very strict, only true/false statements will be given an answer and I have to know the answer.

Meaning if someone says I think XYZ, I can't answer that, I don't know what they think. If someone says XYZ is ABC, I can verify if that is true or false.

[brainbomb]

End of day makes bo look like scum or sk.


bo_sox48
Day-1 01:01
page 60 You're supposed to make this end interesting, not a runaway train that you're already resigned to riding.

bo_sox48
Day-1 01:00
page 60 There you go. Good job.

bo_sox48
Day-1 01:00
page 60 No, I'm ahead.

Yall have info. Use it well. Peace.

Not sure how to interpret this if bo was town here.
How does saying "yall have info, use it well" help town if he isnt saying what info hes referring too?

This makes it more likely bo is scum with foxcastle as fox was the other side of yavuz coin.

[brainbomb]

This pretty much makes yavuz town and changes my reads to the following


Scum
Bosox48
Foxcastle
Jamiet99uk
Hellenic Riot

Town
Everyone but squiggs

Null or SK Squigglypoo

[brainbomb]

Id describe my current play as Cardiologically Innovative.

I believe ive taken the heart of the scumteam and have removed it, placed it on a plate and carved off samples for you all to enjoy.

Gg.

[yavuzovic]

Also if BB hardly pushed Bo. I scumread both, but don't think they're both scum at the same time. One is scum, and I will use my guess for scum bo_. Brain is more likely town.

[brainbomb]

Also if BB hardly pushed Bo. I scumread both, but don't think they're both scum at the same time. One is scum, and I will use my guess for scum bo_. Brain is more likely town.

There is zero scenario where im ever scum. Get that thru your brain. Plz and thanks. Dont waste energy on impossibilities son.

Soul stone starts on vt.
I have soul stone.

The only ppl who would want to have doubt about my.possessing the stone are scum who want to claim they have soul stone on the gallows in hopes theres still enough skeptics lurking in townpool

[brainbomb]

Are you scum with bo? Yavuz?

Are ya maybe just scum with ole bowy bo?

[brainbomb]

yavuzovic
Day-1 24:59
page 37 I don't know bo, you are an experienced player and you know how a town plays. I'm not surprised if you act well.
Page 41 : g=38&part=Day%201&user=yavuzovic
yavuzovic
Day-1 13:27
page 41
↑brainbomb: "Why does bo think yavuz is scum?

Holy crap bo is scum. Like hes not even angry theres 40 pages. Hes lovin it.

##Vote b..."
No he is town ( I believe ) I think he tried to see my reaction under pressure. Otherwise he would come back after his work. I don't think he still works. It's been 12 hours. I'll keep bo on my towns list but don't have a concrete evidence so I can move it easily.

Lol.

This is some weird shit to consider. Is bo just bussing the fuck out of yavuz with a total arse of a case in hopes that yavuz or himself gets clear?