M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[Jamiet99uk]

I’m not versed in the mechanics of the game to know if a cop gives anything other than innocent or guilty.

Goldie’s slot is VT, so innocent.

Fake ignorance?

You are aware there is a Godfather in this relatively vanilla game.

You know that the Godfather causes a false result. You know this because you have played in 20+ games and GMed multiple times, and because the Godfather is a standard role.

You should know that it has been speculated that one of DemonRHK's two inno results was due to scanning the Godfather.

Nothing he said contradicts this.

You are wrong. He should know in a normal game with a normal cop and a normal Godfather, that "inno" and "guilty", or basic variations thereof, are the only results the cop can get, absent of slightly non-normal ways of presenting the roleblock.

[ghug]

You think Maniac's theories about word use and other linguistic details were helpful to town?

Scummy/helpful for town is a false dichotomy

See: most of your town games

It is scummy not to try to help town. I will fucking die on that hill.

If you think otherwise, explain the point of playing, as town, if not to try to help town?

Where did Maniac do townie things that were likely to help find scum and contribute to a town win?

Maniac did things that led me to believe he was town, even if he wasn't playing very well.

He also did do things with the intent of helping town, like fakeclaiming cop to try to draw an NK.

[ghug]

Fake ignorance?

You are aware there is a Godfather in this relatively vanilla game.

You know that the Godfather causes a false result. You know this because you have played in 20+ games and GMed multiple times, and because the Godfather is a standard role.

You should know that it has been speculated that one of DemonRHK's two inno results was due to scanning the Godfather.

Nothing he said contradicts this.

You are wrong. He should know in a normal game with a normal cop and a normal Godfather, that "inno" and "guilty", or basic variations thereof, are the only results the cop can get, absent of slightly non-normal ways of presenting the roleblock.

That's a different question. You're accusing him of feigning ignorance of the godfather, which he didn't do.

[Jamiet99uk]

Nothing he said contradicts this.

You are wrong. He should know in a normal game with a normal cop and a normal Godfather, that "inno" and "guilty", or basic variations thereof, are the only results the cop can get, absent of slightly non-normal ways of presenting the roleblock.

That's a different question. You're accusing him of feigning ignorance of the godfather, which he didn't do.

No, he was saying he didn't know what results the cop could get.

I'm saying that's bullshit.

[ghug]

You are wrong. He should know in a normal game with a normal cop and a normal Godfather, that "inno" and "guilty", or basic variations thereof, are the only results the cop can get, absent of slightly non-normal ways of presenting the roleblock.

That's a different question. You're accusing him of feigning ignorance of the godfather, which he didn't do.

No, he was saying he didn't know what results the cop could get.

I'm saying that's bullshit.

Well, now you're saying that part's bullshit, which is a more reasonable argument than the one you were making before. I'm not especially moved by it, though. I think worcej tends to come off weird all the time.

[Jamiet99uk]

That's a different question. You're accusing him of feigning ignorance of the godfather, which he didn't do.

No, he was saying he didn't know what results the cop could get.

I'm saying that's bullshit.

Well, now you're saying that part's bullshit, which is a more reasonable argument than the one you were making before. I'm not especially moved by it, though. I think worcej tends to come off weird all the time.

I have not changed my point. You simply misunderstood it to begin with.

[worcej]

Fake ignorance?

You are aware there is a Godfather in this relatively vanilla game.

You know that the Godfather causes a false result. You know this because you have played in 20+ games and GMed multiple times, and because the Godfather is a standard role.

You should know that it has been speculated that one of DemonRHK's two inno results was due to scanning the Godfather.

Nothing he said contradicts this.

You are wrong. He should know in a normal game with a normal cop and a normal Godfather, that "inno" and "guilty", or basic variations thereof, are the only results the cop can get, absent of slightly non-normal ways of presenting the roleblock.

JFC Jamie, what I said was that I don't know if the scan result message was tweaked for flavor purposes. I am assuming it's normal and thus gave you the answer that Demon got an innocent scan on me.

[worcej]

You are wrong. He should know in a normal game with a normal cop and a normal Godfather, that "inno" and "guilty", or basic variations thereof, are the only results the cop can get, absent of slightly non-normal ways of presenting the roleblock.

That's a different question. You're accusing him of feigning ignorance of the godfather, which he didn't do.

No, he was saying he didn't know what results the cop could get.

I'm saying that's bullshit.

Are you fucking kidding me with this bullshit Jamie?

You said this:

Oh wait I like this post.

Worcej would indeed obviously know what scan result he gives.

@Worcej: Discuss.

I know that I am a VT, but I HAVE NO FUCKING IDEA what PM or result Demon saw.

##Call GM - Can you please post the exact message Demon would've gotten if he scanned a VT please?

As far as we all know, Demon might have never even scanned Goldie and just sprinkled in that statement to throw scum off or something. If he wanted to be coy, he should've said 'green' instead of 'blue'.

[worcej]

You should know that it has been speculated that one of DemonRHK's two inno results was due to scanning the Godfather.

Circling back to this point - Of course I am aware, that's part of why you had a boner for Maniac.

But, if you're actually town, then your playing incredibly sub-optimally by picking off the innocent scans because they might be the GF.

[worcej]

Anyways, I've asked Bob to explain his Goldie hardon several times now and he's produced nothing. I've done a read of his votes/opinions over the course of the game and they're pretty bad. He's been focused so hard on the goldie slot and been wishy-washy with every other vote/read.

It's hard to figure out Bob's stance on celaph, his analysis post @ 11:52 left looked like he was towning him and poking holes in the wagon (which was only at 2 votes at the time). He said he would go for celaph, Jamie or goldie happily near the end of the phase, but found a BS reason to go for TFB with 3 minutes left of the phase to make him the lead wagon. I honestly think Bob tried to protect celaph D2 with this move.

He's gave himself outs on his Durga read (saying he scummed her because most others scummed her).

He avoided Vecna's wagon and any real opinion on him until it was a forgone conclusion.

I probably won't be here for EON, thus why I am saying this all now, but Bob looks like shit based off VCA and lack of independent reads (all of his reads are dependent on others opinions) and no changes in his scum read as new information becomes presented.

[ghug]

No, he was saying he didn't know what results the cop could get.

I'm saying that's bullshit.

Well, now you're saying that part's bullshit, which is a more reasonable argument than the one you were making before. I'm not especially moved by it, though. I think worcej tends to come off weird all the time.

I have not changed my point. You simply misunderstood it to begin with.

Your other post was about his awareness of a godfather, but whatever.

[Jamiet99uk]

You should know that it has been speculated that one of DemonRHK's two inno results was due to scanning the Godfather.

Circling back to this point - Of course I am aware, that's part of why you had a boner for Maniac.

But, if you're actually town, then your playing incredibly sub-optimally by picking off the innocent scans because they might be the GF.

Who said anything about me wanting to "pick you off" and why are you being so angry and defensive?

[Tom Bombadil]

That's a different question. You're accusing him of feigning ignorance of the godfather, which he didn't do.

No, he was saying he didn't know what results the cop could get.

I'm saying that's bullshit.

Are you fucking kidding me with this bullshit Jamie?

You said this:

Oh wait I like this post.

Worcej would indeed obviously know what scan result he gives.

@Worcej: Discuss.

I know that I am a VT, but I HAVE NO FUCKING IDEA what PM or result Demon saw.

##Call GM - Can you please post the exact message Demon would've gotten if he scanned a VT please?

As far as we all know, Demon might have never even scanned Goldie and just sprinkled in that statement to throw scum off or something. If he wanted to be coy, he should've said 'green' instead of 'blue'.

GM NOTE:

Scan results are sent in the following format:

“You learn from your investigation that xxxxxxxx is aligned with the town/mafia”

[BobMcBob]

Going to call you out on this being pretty bad because if you wanted Damo, you shouldn’t have ever left his wagon.

You were the first one to move off Damo when he was the lead wagon and then it crumbled apart as you shifted to Donny, which gave others enough momentum to move there.

And meanwhile my voting is purposeless and low effort for not leaving the wagon I want. Makes sense.

I mean, we’re not at Milo or Kilo yet, but if you’re town you need to stop just parking your vote on non-wagons and then not making EOD.

You’re running out of time to die on stupid hills.

AND ONCE AGAIN: point me to what post or phase where you made a case against goldie.

I literally dumped a bunch of quotes earlier, which included a case I'd made on him in a previous phase, and more thoughts on why he's/you're scum. I find it hard to believe you missed it. And once again, you purposefully misrepresenting my case and votes doesn't exactly make me townread you.

[BobMcBob]

I can't tell whether Bob is outraged, or fake-outraged.

Anyone?

To the extent that you could call my increasing frustration at voting this game outrage, real.

You have no right to be outraged when you don’t contribute enough anything to the phase.

You have no right to say I didn't contribute when your entire game has consisted of shading me, tunnelling Jamie while shading me for tunnelling, and voting out someone you thought was town.

[BobMcBob]

Maniac was scummy and was scanned.

I agree with one of those things.

You think Maniac's theories about word use and other linguistic details were helpful to town?

Once again Jamie conflates "unhelpful to town" with "scummy". These are not the same thing, and I thought you would've realised that after it turned put to be the case with flum. Actually, no I didn't.

[BobMcBob]

You think Maniac's theories about word use and other linguistic details were helpful to town?

Scummy/helpful for town is a false dichotomy

See: most of your town games

It is scummy not to try to help town. I will fucking die on that hill.

If you think otherwise, explain the point of playing, as town, if not to try to help town?

Where did Maniac do townie things that were likely to help find scum and contribute to a town win?

Maniac did not help town. Maniac played in a way that is consistent with the way he plays as town. It was not how he plays as scum. Therefore Maniac was not likely to be scum regardless of how unhelpful his play was.

Yes, people should try to help town when they are town, I agree. People should engage with the game. People do not always do that. Just because someone is not helping town, does not make them likely to be scum.

Case in point, Flum.

Case in point, Maniac.

Case in point, everyone you voted for in M66, in which you put on the most miserable town performance in webDIp history, on par with brainbomb's worst.

I don't expect you to ever realise that, but it would be nice.

[worcej]

To the extent that you could call my increasing frustration at voting this game outrage, real.

You have no right to be outraged when you don’t contribute enough anything to the phase.

You have no right to say I didn't contribute when your entire game has consisted of shading me, tunnelling Jamie while shading me for tunnelling, and voting out someone you thought was town.

You’re forgetting my comments on Damo, my pointing out TFB’s inconsistencies, and also pointing at ghug too.

Which shockingly is more than your gameplay so far lol

[worcej]

Scummy/helpful for town is a false dichotomy

See: most of your town games

It is scummy not to try to help town. I will fucking die on that hill.

If you think otherwise, explain the point of playing, as town, if not to try to help town?

Where did Maniac do townie things that were likely to help find scum and contribute to a town win?

Maniac did not help town. Maniac played in a way that is consistent with the way he plays as town. It was not how he plays as scum. Therefore Maniac was not likely to be scum regardless of how unhelpful his play was.

Yes, people should try to help town when they are town, I agree. People should engage with the game. People do not always do that. Just because someone is not helping town, does not make them likely to be scum.

Case in point, Flum.

Case in point, Maniac.

Case in point, everyone you voted for in M66, in which you put on the most miserable town performance in webDIp history, on par with brainbomb's worst.

I don't expect you to ever realise that, but it would be nice.

This is all well and good, but at a certain point if a towny isn’t helping town then they can be a liability.

[worcej]

This has to be one of the worst scum performances in a long time.

The extreme reticence to vote Goldie makes me pretty convinced he's the GF, so this should be a hilariously short game.

The fact that it's this bad should lead you to the opposite conclusion, HR. My scum performances have usually been pretty good. The fact that I was counter-wagon to Vecna and Vecna voted me (there's only one scum other than GF alive) should pretty much clear me. Cop, scan me tonight to prove I'm not the goon. There's no reason the roleblocker would try to push the vote on the GF.

That all being said, good job to everyone except me. I'm easily LVT - least valuable townie here. Frankly surprised Durga would go that far protecting Fox off the bat, tbh.

Yeah, this is scummy as fuck - I cannot lie lol