M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[BobMcBob]

As promised, I'm disappointed in all of you.

[BobMcBob]

Gee whiz I sure am glad we killed Maniac because Jamie once again doesn't like it when someone who is obviously town plays in a way he deems suboptimal and everyone else is too silly to push a decent kill.

Jamie is more of an active liability to town then Maniac ever was, regardless of his alignment. And he might actually be scum, unlike Maniac.

Jamie would you like to continue boasting about how you were on all scum wagons so far, two of which would've run away without your help, and were one of the biggest influences in killing off two town players due to your own pettiness and stubbornness?

At least tonight's kill will actually really for sure give us some interesting information for real this time trust me. No I can't guess what the kill will be it will be very revealing this time.

Now that I've got that (mostly) out of my system, can we kill goldcej next?

[ghug]

Gee whiz I sure am glad we killed Maniac because Jamie once again doesn't like it when someone who is obviously town plays in a way he deems suboptimal and everyone else is too silly to push a decent kill.

Jamie is more of an active liability to town then Maniac ever was, regardless of his alignment. And he might actually be scum, unlike Maniac.

Jamie would you like to continue boasting about how you were on all scum wagons so far, two of which would've run away without your help, and were one of the biggest influences in killing off two town players due to your own pettiness and stubbornness?

At least tonight's kill will actually really for sure give us some interesting information for real this time trust me. No I can't guess what the kill will be it will be very revealing this time.

Now that I've got that (mostly) out of my system, can we kill goldcej next?

What do you think of worcej's play so far?

[worcej]

Gee whiz I sure am glad we killed Maniac because Jamie once again doesn't like it when someone who is obviously town plays in a way he deems suboptimal and everyone else is too silly to push a decent kill.

Jamie is more of an active liability to town then Maniac ever was, regardless of his alignment. And he might actually be scum, unlike Maniac.

Jamie would you like to continue boasting about how you were on all scum wagons so far, two of which would've run away without your help, and were one of the biggest influences in killing off two town players due to your own pettiness and stubbornness?

At least tonight's kill will actually really for sure give us some interesting information for real this time trust me. No I can't guess what the kill will be it will be very revealing this time.

Now that I've got that (mostly) out of my system, can we kill goldcej next?

I love how you give crap for killing Maniac yet want to kill my slot next.

[BobMcBob]

Gee whiz I sure am glad we killed Maniac because Jamie once again doesn't like it when someone who is obviously town plays in a way he deems suboptimal and everyone else is too silly to push a decent kill.

Jamie is more of an active liability to town then Maniac ever was, regardless of his alignment. And he might actually be scum, unlike Maniac.

Jamie would you like to continue boasting about how you were on all scum wagons so far, two of which would've run away without your help, and were one of the biggest influences in killing off two town players due to your own pettiness and stubbornness?

At least tonight's kill will actually really for sure give us some interesting information for real this time trust me. No I can't guess what the kill will be it will be very revealing this time.

Now that I've got that (mostly) out of my system, can we kill goldcej next?

What do you think of worcej's play so far?

It's been fine? There hasn't been too much that's special about it other than that I wouldn't dislike a Jamie flip either tbh. Talk about liability to town. I might look into him a bit further.

[BobMcBob]

Gee whiz I sure am glad we killed Maniac because Jamie once again doesn't like it when someone who is obviously town plays in a way he deems suboptimal and everyone else is too silly to push a decent kill.

Jamie is more of an active liability to town then Maniac ever was, regardless of his alignment. And he might actually be scum, unlike Maniac.

Jamie would you like to continue boasting about how you were on all scum wagons so far, two of which would've run away without your help, and were one of the biggest influences in killing off two town players due to your own pettiness and stubbornness?

At least tonight's kill will actually really for sure give us some interesting information for real this time trust me. No I can't guess what the kill will be it will be very revealing this time.

Now that I've got that (mostly) out of my system, can we kill goldcej next?

I love how you give crap for killing Maniac yet want to kill my slot next.

My problem with the Maniac kill has nothing to do with the fact that he scanned as town, I've been the major voice for ignoring that this game. My problem was that he just wasn't scummy. Your slot on the other hand does not have that luxury.

[worcej]

Also Bob, as I stated prior, you have no room to talk. You’re floating along in your own world several phases behind while the rest of us are actively trying to figure the current game out.

[worcej]

Gee whiz I sure am glad we killed Maniac because Jamie once again doesn't like it when someone who is obviously town plays in a way he deems suboptimal and everyone else is too silly to push a decent kill.

Jamie is more of an active liability to town then Maniac ever was, regardless of his alignment. And he might actually be scum, unlike Maniac.

Jamie would you like to continue boasting about how you were on all scum wagons so far, two of which would've run away without your help, and were one of the biggest influences in killing off two town players due to your own pettiness and stubbornness?

At least tonight's kill will actually really for sure give us some interesting information for real this time trust me. No I can't guess what the kill will be it will be very revealing this time.

Now that I've got that (mostly) out of my system, can we kill goldcej next?

I love how you give crap for killing Maniac yet want to kill my slot next.

My problem with the Maniac kill has nothing to do with the fact that he scanned as town, I've been the major voice for ignoring that this game. My problem was that he just wasn't scummy. Your slot on the other hand does not have that luxury.

Give me a phase or direct quote to your reasoning on what goldie did that was scummy.

[BobMcBob]

I have some other very strong thoughts about town and scum that I will put down at EoN to avoid giving too much info to scum too early.

[BobMcBob]

Also Bob, as I stated prior, you have no room to talk. You’re floating along in your own world several phases behind while the rest of us are actively trying to figure the current game out.

Just because town has been ignoring the scummiest people in the gam in favour of idiotic votes on stale and useless wagons that were quite obviously never going to flip scum doesn't mean they're trying to figure the game out. Was the HR kill "solving"? No it was lazy and stupuid. Was the Maniac kill "solving"? No it was Jamie being stubborn, damo not understanding how mafia works, and you and rdr being very lazy with your votes instead of trying to get scum. If you want to explain anything town's votes have accomplished over the past few days, go ahead.

I on the other hand have not been stuck in the past, I have been stuck on people who continue to be scummy and yet gain no votes because town is too busy apparently "solving".

[BobMcBob]

Gee whiz I sure am glad we killed Maniac because Jamie once again doesn't like it when someone who is obviously town plays in a way he deems suboptimal and everyone else is too silly to push a decent kill.

Jamie is more of an active liability to town then Maniac ever was, regardless of his alignment. And he might actually be scum, unlike Maniac.

Jamie would you like to continue boasting about how you were on all scum wagons so far, two of which would've run away without your help, and were one of the biggest influences in killing off two town players due to your own pettiness and stubbornness?

At least tonight's kill will actually really for sure give us some interesting information for real this time trust me. No I can't guess what the kill will be it will be very revealing this time.

Now that I've got that (mostly) out of my system, can we kill goldcej next?

I take it back, I don't think I quite got it out of my system there.

[worcej]

Also Bob, as I stated prior, you have no room to talk. You’re floating along in your own world several phases behind while the rest of us are actively trying to figure the current game out.

Just because town has been ignoring the scummiest people in the gam in favour of idiotic votes on stale and useless wagons that were quite obviously never going to flip scum doesn't mean they're trying to figure the game out. Was the HR kill "solving"? No it was lazy and stupuid. Was the Maniac kill "solving"? No it was Jamie being stubborn, damo not understanding how mafia works, and you and rdr being very lazy with your votes instead of trying to get scum. If you want to explain anything town's votes have accomplished over the past few days, go ahead.

I on the other hand have not been stuck in the past, I have been stuck on people who continue to be scummy and yet gain no votes because town is too busy apparently "solving".

First - I was, and continue to be adamant, that Jamie is the GF having an incredibly good game. Damo’s done more damage to himself this past phase, so my scum read there has grown.

Second - you’re doing nothing by parking your vote on me as if it’s a forgone conclusion I am scum. You are not explaining yourself in any meaningful way or helping me even understand how you scum my slot. From my quick dive, you’re tunnelling this slot for too many phases.

[BobMcBob]

The fact that it's this bad should lead you to the opposite conclusion, HR. My scum performances have usually been pretty good. The fact that I was counter-wagon to Vecna and Vecna voted me (there's only one scum other than GF alive) should pretty much clear me. Cop, scan me tonight to prove I'm not the goon. There's no reason the roleblocker would try to push the vote on the GF.

This is scummy.

Goldfinger time!
Water problems D1, he gets a pass.
Almost immediately comes back with a huge post which restates a lot of events and not much else. There's a bunch of reads at the beginning. The post is fine. Then a post with reads later, which is also fine. Gold finger completely forgetting I was a wagon, especially after reading through all of the EoD, is rather strange. He does not update his case on HR as a result.

Then goldie starts talking about DL8 and roleblocks... He says that scum would likely be roleblocking their kill target, which throws shade on Chaqa. He also states that scum might have killed DL8 because of something he mentioned offhand in his wall post. "DL was for sure scum sniping for PRs" is a very odd thing to say, and why would you come to that conclusion? And who would've decided that DL8 was a good PR snipe except goldie? He later pulls up three posts where people mention DL8, but none of them suggest that his activity is unusual for him. Which is what goldie states they are. This whole thing feels... off. Combine this with the fact that it has been dredged up that goldie has soft-gloated like this before and it looks worse again.

If he does flip scum, I think Chaqa is pretty much as good as clear. And he also strangely shades the Fox/Vecna wagon for being predicated on stuff in the first half of D1, which could be another connection.

I expected to come out of this scumreading goldie, but darn, I didn't remember the roleblock thing being so bad. I honestly like a ##vote goldie to see if we can get a wagon going.

This is still scummy.

Bob, for someone who draws the (somewhat correct, I suppose..) conclusion that Chaqa would be semi-clear if I flip scum, how are you not understanding my statement of "DL was the scum team sniping for PRs"?

Giving you the benefit of the doubt that you may have never been scum before, NK discussions roughly break down into 3 reasons 1) Someone is so obviously town (hard or soft clear) that they need to go. DL obviously did not fit this 2) This person might be a PR, but even if they're not they're a super scary town player, so let's kill them. Very typical N1 behavior, and you often see people like HR getting killed this way. And xorxes. DL is not one to inspire fear 3) Genuine belief someone is a PR.

Why did you expect to come out of it scumreading me though? That sounds like you went into the re-read looking for evidence to back up a scumread that would be believable. Honestly with that last paragraph, the whole post reeks something terrible.

##Vote Bob. Still willing to switch to my other votes, but holy shit how has nobody else caught that? For emphasis again.

I expected to come out of this scumreading goldie

I'm more surprised you didn't catch that I said the exact same thing in my post on celaph. I do, in fact, already have an impression on someone from what I recall from the game before I go to iso them. I had an impression of you being scummy, therefore expecting to scumread you after isoing you. I'm just being transparent about my thought process. Same for celaph, which you have mysteriously/conveniently overlooked.

In fact, I scumread you more because of this. Also have you never heard of "look who's not on our scumteam kills?" Or doc avoidance kills? Maybe the scumteam didn't want to hit kgray/blamp/jamie because that's almost certainly who the doc would target. Or because they're scum.

Anybody wanna flash goldie with me?

This is still scummy.

He also defended Vecna very strangely D2, voted celaph D2 with no stated reason other than maybe ghug buddying apparently but moved onto me 15 minutes before EoD. Goldie put Vecna at the bottom of his "towncore" at one point. The ghug buddying has bordered on silly. Vecna tried as hard as possible for most of D4 to make the day a him vs HR when goldfinger was the third possibility. His vote for gold came at a time where it could have very reasonably been a distancing vote.

There's also the matter of vibes and individual smaller messages and things that build up to a larger impression of scumminess but that can't really be plonked down as a bunch of quotes or individual evidence. And that has been constant.

[BobMcBob]

Also Bob, as I stated prior, you have no room to talk. You’re floating along in your own world several phases behind while the rest of us are actively trying to figure the current game out.

Just because town has been ignoring the scummiest people in the gam in favour of idiotic votes on stale and useless wagons that were quite obviously never going to flip scum doesn't mean they're trying to figure the game out. Was the HR kill "solving"? No it was lazy and stupuid. Was the Maniac kill "solving"? No it was Jamie being stubborn, damo not understanding how mafia works, and you and rdr being very lazy with your votes instead of trying to get scum. If you want to explain anything town's votes have accomplished over the past few days, go ahead.

I on the other hand have not been stuck in the past, I have been stuck on people who continue to be scummy and yet gain no votes because town is too busy apparently "solving".

First - I was, and continue to be adamant, that Jamie is the GF having an incredibly good game. Damo’s done more damage to himself this past phase, so my scum read there has grown.

Second - you’re doing nothing by parking your vote on me as if it’s a forgone conclusion I am scum. You are not explaining yourself in any meaningful way or helping me even understand how you scum my slot. From my quick dive, you’re tunnelling this slot for too many phases.

If a player is scummy, they are scummy. Did I ever tell you a story about the time in champs where I picked up on a scum D1 and scumread and pushed them for the entire game and nobody listened? And then town lost? There was absolutely a reason for what I was doing, and there is now too.

Nothing has changed my impression that this slot is scum and since it hasn't exactly flipped town to prove me wrong, what do you want me to do? Not push my scumreads? Vote for lurkers playing consistently with their town play or follow the consensus about who's mildly scummy when I disagree with it? Where would that have got us? What exactly would you like me to be doing with my vote instead?

[damo666]

And Bob calls Jamie stubborn! Lol

[damo666]

Bob as I don't understand how Mafia works please explain it to me. You may consult with your scumpartner.

[BobMcBob]

I will unfortunately probably not be around for EoD as I am out tomorrow morning. I am still absolutely cool with a ##vote worcej although if damo goes through as the wagon I'm okay with that too.

If anybody other than TFB, damo or worcej goes through, I'm going to make haughty and sarcastic comments about town's voting for the third time this game.

Why are you so vague and passive this game? You also seem instrumental in ensuring town members have died on day kills.

Effectively, I don’t think you have any right to make negative comments on town voting if you’re town yourself since almost all of your votes have been with little conviction or purpose.

If by "instrumental in town kills" you mean "jumping onto the obviously leading wagon to decrease the chance of a tie after the wagon I had been on and any flashwagons I attempted didn't gain any traction", you'd be right. I have only been on two town daykills and I only jumped on them last minute (literally) and if I hadn't nothing would've gone differently. Is that what you call "instrumental".

Also would you call heavily pushing and attempting to flip people that I think are scum and trying to create flashwagons when I don't like the main wagon "with little conviction or purpose"?

The way I see it is you're trying to throw shade on me for the fact that I have been constantly pushing your slot and you are trying to portray that as silly and meaningless to discredit me and pretend that my voting is purposeless by cherry picking evidence and discreetly throwing standard voting logic out the window.

Which coincidentally is yet another reason why I don't see any good reason to not scumread or push or vote you.

[BobMcBob]

Bob as I don't understand how Mafia works please explain it to me. You may consult with your scumpartner.

After consulting with worcej, I've decided it comes down to a combination of misusing statistics and putting it places it shouldn't be, making way too many assumptions about pairings and ruling out certain people as scum when there is no firm reason to, and also not being able to read people very well.

[BobMcBob]

Bob as I don't understand how Mafia works please explain it to me. You may consult with your scumpartner.

After consulting with worcej, I've decided it comes down to a combination of misusing statistics and putting it places it shouldn't be, making way too many assumptions about pairings and ruling out certain people as scum when there is no firm reason to, and also not being able to read people very well.

Hold up, you wanted me to explain how it works lol. Well statistics are meaningless and shouldn't be used. Instead, you should vote for people who are acting like scum. Not necessarily people who are acting in an anti-town way (stares pointedly at Jamie) but people who are scummy. If you want an example of that, worcej is a good one. Also goldfinger. And also don't make too many baseless assumptions to lock yourself into incorrect theories, it doesn't actually help narrow down your options. Bona and blamp aren't actually scum.

[BobMcBob]

And Bob calls Jamie stubborn! Lol

The difference is he's wrong. I may be stubborn, but at least I haven't also proven myself to be horrible at reading people.