M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[ghug]

Why don't you want to kill gold anymore, HR?

[Chaqa]

I'd flashwagon Donny at this point too

The scum team tried that day 1

[ghug]

I'd flashwagon Donny at this point too

The scum team tried that day 1

Hey now, there were at least three and probably four townies on that wagon.

[kgray]

I'd flashwagon Donny at this point too

The scum team tried that day 1

Hey now, there were at least three and probably four townies on that wagon.

Yeah but both Durga and celaph joining it is also more points for town!Donny.

I'm sure HR won't care though because it was just obvious to Durga and celaph that Donny would never take off as a wagon and therefore is a great time to bus a teammate.

[Chaqa]

lets not kill maniac today

Who do you want to vote?

[TheFlyingBoat]

Maybe so but both being town being off both scum wagons seems improbable to me so I would say at least 1 is scum and if it is only one my money would be on Bona.

Sure but why wouldn't Bona be on the scum wagon if he were scum? Like on the me vs celaph day he would obviously not be on celaph because he wanted to get the miskill on me (that he also tried to get on D1) if he were scum!bona, but Durga? Why would he come back and end on me just like he did D1, D2, and D3? Like bona's tunneling is anti-town, but I'm far less confident that he's scum than someone like HR or Vecna or rdr.

Do you actually have some cases on me, Vecna, or rdr?

Yeah, I'll start with rdr first, as it's the easiest given you literally cited the fact you liked my rdr case as a reason for townreading me during D2. Not sure how you forgot that.

Vecna comes down to a couple of things. One is the Fox/Durga link. Whether that was just an attempt to pocket Fox or a light defense of a scum mate before they get railroaded is up in the air. Then D2, she is offered a way off of the Celaph bus wagon for free in a way that wouldn't appear suspect and she declines, preferring not to vote for him and sticking on Celaph instead until she eventually moves to Demon and then tries to get me and Jamie offed to protect Celaph. I think this reflects really well on Demon and Jamie fwiw, as an aside. His D3 is absolute shit tier from an unexplained vanity wagon to a bunch of lazy posts to avoid a modkill to half hearted whining that no one listens to him (casually brushing aside that is because of the fact he doesn't say much useful shit to listen to). Further, at the time Durga dips for good Vecna is actually ahead of her in the vote. If she wanted to she could have easily counterwagoned him. If he were a townie, why wouldn't she fight for another miskill even if it makes it more likely she dies D4? The only answer I can think of is if Vecna was the Godfather or the RBer. The only thing that gives me pause there is that I feel like Durga may have said fuck it and tried to kill Vecna anyways given how he's played that game, but perhaps she viewed herself as too hot of a target and figured the scumPR is worth saving over her if she's dead anyways, especially if Vecna promised her a return to activity.

The other alternative is she was genuinely going to come back at some point the next day in her plans, but then after seeing her fellow scummate HR on the block chose not to do anything, figuring HR was definitely a good enough player to save himself in the future and that she should go down with the ship to protect him and whoever the other mafia members are. I also mentioned I viewed your long VCA posts when they came from you when they did as being potentially preemptory, a view shared by lamp at the time, a move I can certainly see scum!hr trying to do to protect himself.

I especially feel this way given that your future reads seem to draw very little from this VCA at all, which is just really odd given how much effort you put in it. If it was for hunting purposes I would expect much more focus to be drawn to it N3 and today and much more wagon leading from it from you. Instead it has been largely forgotten

For reference here is his N3 reads list

Strong Town:
BobMcBob
Chaqa
DemonRHK

Town:
ghug
Jamie (Certain town if Vecna is town. The only way I can see Jamie as scum at this point is if the reason Durga tried to flashwagon him was her being annoyed at him for hardcore bussing Fox off the bat)

Slight Town:
Donny Dude
Maniac
TheFlyingBoat

Null:
BusinessLamp

Slight Scum:
kgray
rdrivera

Scum:
damo666
Vecna
Bonatogether

Strong Scum:
goldfinger0303

HR, you also seem most implicated by Durga's decision to simply not play D3 for reasons mentioned above. Why does Durga who was alive and well and free choose simply not to post at all for like 40 hours unless there was a good reason not to? She could absolutely crush a head to head if she needed to imo and wanted to put in the effort. She clearly didn't and didn't even make a half assed attempt to do so. Why? There was someone she wanted to protect by going down easy. The best thought I have is you.

Unlike Vecna you've been active, you've been just scum read enough to be able justify not dying to NKs, not scum read enough to be a guaranteed death in the the near term necessarily, especially given your strong ability in head to head scenarios. It's certainly easier for me to see her dying to save you when she assumes her death is all but certain today or the next day than it to see her doing the same for vecna, independent of roles (though I could see it being the former if you were town).

[Hellenic Riot]

Why don't you want to kill gold anymore, HR?

Who says I don't?

Donny was the deciding vote on celaph, I thought. Why would you flash him today?

Donny was the vote that tied it with one minute to go, so I'm ambivalent on giving that huge towncred. But more importantly; since being widely townread during EoD1 he's done essentially nothing ever since. Fuck first gear, he's barely managed to get it out of neutral. And I don't particularly rate what little contributions he has come in with today; because they missed what was happening right in front of him.

I mean, if we're talking flashing someone for lack of contribution, might as well flash me, Maniac, Demon, bona....there's lots of low posters, and low quality posters at that. Why choose a target that arguably has more towncred than any of the others I've listed?

RHK is a strange one to include in that list given he gets more credit than Donny for that flip.

Bona is not a low poster, though low quality is more arguable.

Maniac never had towncred in the first place to coast off of.

I don't find low activity suspicious by itself. I do find it suspicious when people are very active right up until they're townread, and then disappear and do nothing. And if we get a couple more votes on TFB, I'm sure he'll jump back out from behind his rock and act as if he's been here all along too.

[Hellenic Riot]

Oh hey! He arrived.

##vote goldie

[Hellenic Riot]

The scum team tried that day 1

Hey now, there were at least three and probably four townies on that wagon.

Yeah but both Durga and celaph joining it is also more points for town!Donny.

I'm sure HR won't care though because it was just obvious to Durga and celaph that Donny would never take off as a wagon and therefore is a great time to bus a teammate.

Actually, I view Donny as a summit fever contender for much of D1 when he was under severe pressure before pulling it out of the bag with strong reactions toward the end. If Donny's scum, I'd expect there to be multiple scum on him during that time (and potentially more than just Durga & celaph.

[TheFlyingBoat]

Oh hey! He arrived.

##vote goldie

Yeah been busy with work and showing off rooms in the house I am renting to prospective subletters as two of my roommates are buying a house and are moving out

[TheFlyingBoat]

Hey now, there were at least three and probably four townies on that wagon.

Yeah but both Durga and celaph joining it is also more points for town!Donny.

I'm sure HR won't care though because it was just obvious to Durga and celaph that Donny would never take off as a wagon and therefore is a great time to bus a teammate.

Actually, I view Donny as a summit fever contender for much of D1 when he was under severe pressure before pulling it out of the bag with strong reactions toward the end. If Donny's scum, I'd expect there to be multiple scum on him during that time (and potentially more than just Durga & celaph.

Donny's early D1 wasn't great as far as I remember, but did you really think it was summit level?

[kgray]

Hey now, there were at least three and probably four townies on that wagon.

Yeah but both Durga and celaph joining it is also more points for town!Donny.

I'm sure HR won't care though because it was just obvious to Durga and celaph that Donny would never take off as a wagon and therefore is a great time to bus a teammate.

Actually, I view Donny as a summit fever contender for much of D1 when he was under severe pressure before pulling it out of the bag with strong reactions toward the end. If Donny's scum, I'd expect there to be multiple scum on him during that time (and potentially more than just Durga & celaph.

Severe pressure?? Lamp was like "hey who wants to vote Donny" lmao

That's nothing like summit, who was actually under a lot of pressure by at least 3 non-mafia and had a group of other voters in addition.

[Maniac]

I'm really, really sorry to do this, but I have been really really busy and now need sleep like I've never needed sleep before. I can't risk my wagon becoming a real thing when I'm sleeping, so I have to say this now. I'm the cop.

I gave a couple of hints here...

Just wanted to share with the class, I'm the cop and i have an innocent on Bofa

Jesus, Mary and Joseph and the wee donkey why do you have to say that now, fella?

and here...

What? How many scum do you think there is?

Four

I think you’re playing a different game fella.

For those who don't know 'fella' and 'Jesus, Mary and Joseph and the wee donkey' are quotes from Superintendent Ted Hastings from 'The Line of Duty' which is a British cop show. I'd be amazed if Brits didn't pick up on this, so it's somewhat surprising that Jamie and Damo seem to want me dead. Jamie had gone very quiet on wanting me dead around the time of my crumbing, but now is pushing it. perhaps because he thinks I'm not going to be on at all tonight. Maybe he is scum playing a great game idk.

I'd love to have scum scans. A re-read will tell you who I've innocent scanned, but I know that doesn't clear anyone.

Of course, you also probably all know that I have a history of fake-claiming and this could just be me drawing a NK or a RB. You decide.

Sorry for being low poster this game, partly that was due to busy life and partly because I wanted to look useless so mafia wouldn't NK me too early. I was often an early NK target when I was a lot more active.

Sorry again.

[Hellenic Riot]

Sure but why wouldn't Bona be on the scum wagon if he were scum? Like on the me vs celaph day he would obviously not be on celaph because he wanted to get the miskill on me (that he also tried to get on D1) if he were scum!bona, but Durga? Why would he come back and end on me just like he did D1, D2, and D3? Like bona's tunneling is anti-town, but I'm far less confident that he's scum than someone like HR or Vecna or rdr.

Do you actually have some cases on me, Vecna, or rdr?

Yeah, I'll start with rdr first, as it's the easiest given you literally cited the fact you liked my rdr case as a reason for townreading me during D2. Not sure how you forgot that.

Vecna comes down to a couple of things. One is the Fox/Durga link. Whether that was just an attempt to pocket Fox or a light defense of a scum mate before they get railroaded is up in the air. Then D2, she is offered a way off of the Celaph bus wagon for free in a way that wouldn't appear suspect and she declines, preferring not to vote for him and sticking on Celaph instead until she eventually moves to Demon and then tries to get me and Jamie offed to protect Celaph. I think this reflects really well on Demon and Jamie fwiw, as an aside. His D3 is absolute shit tier from an unexplained vanity wagon to a bunch of lazy posts to avoid a modkill to half hearted whining that no one listens to him (casually brushing aside that is because of the fact he doesn't say much useful shit to listen to). Further, at the time Durga dips for good Vecna is actually ahead of her in the vote. If she wanted to she could have easily counterwagoned him. If he were a townie, why wouldn't she fight for another miskill even if it makes it more likely she dies D4? The only answer I can think of is if Vecna was the Godfather or the RBer. The only thing that gives me pause there is that I feel like Durga may have said fuck it and tried to kill Vecna anyways given how he's played that game, but perhaps she viewed herself as too hot of a target and figured the scumPR is worth saving over her if she's dead anyways, especially if Vecna promised her a return to activity.

The other alternative is she was genuinely going to come back at some point the next day in her plans, but then after seeing her fellow scummate HR on the block chose not to do anything, figuring HR was definitely a good enough player to save himself in the future and that she should go down with the ship to protect him and whoever the other mafia members are. I also mentioned I viewed your long VCA posts when they came from you when they did as being potentially preemptory, a view shared by lamp at the time, a move I can certainly see scum!hr trying to do to protect himself.

I especially feel this way given that your future reads seem to draw very little from this VCA at all, which is just really odd given how much effort you put in it. If it was for hunting purposes I would expect much more focus to be drawn to it N3 and today and much more wagon leading from it from you. Instead it has been largely forgotten

For reference here is his N3 reads list

Strong Town:
BobMcBob
Chaqa
DemonRHK

Town:
ghug
Jamie (Certain town if Vecna is town. The only way I can see Jamie as scum at this point is if the reason Durga tried to flashwagon him was her being annoyed at him for hardcore bussing Fox off the bat)

Slight Town:
Donny Dude
Maniac
TheFlyingBoat

Null:
BusinessLamp

Slight Scum:
kgray
rdrivera

Scum:
damo666
Vecna
Bonatogether

Strong Scum:
goldfinger0303

HR, you also seem most implicated by Durga's decision to simply not play D3 for reasons mentioned above. Why does Durga who was alive and well and free choose simply not to post at all for like 40 hours unless there was a good reason not to? She could absolutely crush a head to head if she needed to imo and wanted to put in the effort. She clearly didn't and didn't even make a half assed attempt to do so. Why? There was someone she wanted to protect by going down easy. The best thought I have is you.

Unlike Vecna you've been active, you've been just scum read enough to be able justify not dying to NKs, not scum read enough to be a guaranteed death in the the near term necessarily, especially given your strong ability in head to head scenarios. It's certainly easier for me to see her dying to save you when she assumes her death is all but certain today or the next day than it to see her doing the same for vecna, independent of roles (though I could see it being the former if you were town).

Cases D2 tend to evolve or be updated somewhat by D4 - Particularly given we've had two scumflips since then. Have they somehow been completely isolated from your read on rivera?

I do like your points on Vecna. I still can't help but feel like he's just sitting there as an easy miskill for scum to let us piss away, but there's solid arguments against him too.

As for Durga - As I said at the time, I think she gave up for OOG reasons. I also don't particularly think that if she did give up for in-game reasons, it would be out of faith in myself, but I disagree that she'd be particularly able to argue herself out of it - Everyone who knew her meta was scumreading her for a reason. It's very hard to argue your way out of that. If the surrender was not for the OOG Reason that I strongly suspect it was; then I would instead put it down to her hoping that going silent might let the Vecna wagon take off because he was also unlikely to be around to fight it, and attention might drift to him instead. Which is one of the reasons why I'm reticent to go after him today.

[Hellenic Riot]

Yeah but both Durga and celaph joining it is also more points for town!Donny.

I'm sure HR won't care though because it was just obvious to Durga and celaph that Donny would never take off as a wagon and therefore is a great time to bus a teammate.

Actually, I view Donny as a summit fever contender for much of D1 when he was under severe pressure before pulling it out of the bag with strong reactions toward the end. If Donny's scum, I'd expect there to be multiple scum on him during that time (and potentially more than just Durga & celaph.

Severe pressure?? Lamp was like "hey who wants to vote Donny" lmao

That's nothing like summit, who was actually under a lot of pressure by at least 3 non-mafia and had a group of other voters in addition.

Six people voted him after he responded with pure panic when I called him out for focusing on Flum's 'truth-tell'.

[TheFlyingBoat]

You sound annoyed that youre losing to a town with players like me on it

It was a genuine question. Have you actually read anything?

Some, but very little

Will this change or should I just switch back onto you?

[ghug]

Actually, I view Donny as a summit fever contender for much of D1 when he was under severe pressure before pulling it out of the bag with strong reactions toward the end. If Donny's scum, I'd expect there to be multiple scum on him during that time (and potentially more than just Durga & celaph.

Severe pressure?? Lamp was like "hey who wants to vote Donny" lmao

That's nothing like summit, who was actually under a lot of pressure by at least 3 non-mafia and had a group of other voters in addition.

Six people voted him after he responded with pure panic when I called him out for focusing on Flum's 'truth-tell'.

To see the world through HR's eyes...

[DemonRHK]

The daykill needs to be between Vecna and HR, with rdr a possible third.

[Hellenic Riot]

I'm really, really sorry to do this, but I have been really really busy and now need sleep like I've never needed sleep before. I can't risk my wagon becoming a real thing when I'm sleeping, so I have to say this now. I'm the cop.

I gave a couple of hints here...

Just wanted to share with the class, I'm the cop and i have an innocent on Bofa

Jesus, Mary and Joseph and the wee donkey why do you have to say that now, fella?

and here...

Four

I think you’re playing a different game fella.

For those who don't know 'fella' and 'Jesus, Mary and Joseph and the wee donkey' are quotes from Superintendent Ted Hastings from 'The Line of Duty' which is a British cop show. I'd be amazed if Brits didn't pick up on this, so it's somewhat surprising that Jamie and Damo seem to want me dead. Jamie had gone very quiet on wanting me dead around the time of my crumbing, but now is pushing it. perhaps because he thinks I'm not going to be on at all tonight. Maybe he is scum playing a great game idk.

I'd love to have scum scans. A re-read will tell you who I've innocent scanned, but I know that doesn't clear anyone.

Of course, you also probably all know that I have a history of fake-claiming and this could just be me drawing a NK or a RB. You decide.

Sorry for being low poster this game, partly that was due to busy life and partly because I wanted to look useless so mafia wouldn't NK me too early. I was often an early NK target when I was a lot more active.

Sorry again.

https://c.tenor.com/NYGwIWL0unoAAAAM/mj ... ackson.gif

[goldfinger0303]

Donny was the vote that tied it with one minute to go, so I'm ambivalent on giving that huge towncred. But more importantly; since being widely townread during EoD1 he's done essentially nothing ever since. Fuck first gear, he's barely managed to get it out of neutral. And I don't particularly rate what little contributions he has come in with today; because they missed what was happening right in front of him.

I mean, if we're talking flashing someone for lack of contribution, might as well flash me, Maniac, Demon, bona....there's lots of low posters, and low quality posters at that. Why choose a target that arguably has more towncred than any of the others I've listed?

I'd flash you gold.