MAFIA 71: "PAPERS PLEASE" - GAME THREAD [Hidden]

[captainmeme]

also what does NAI mean

[ghug]

I never indicated that I did not know there was a roleblocker.

Do you disagree with my assessment that it's unlike you not to ask about it?

Why would I ask about it?

You have a known obsession with mechanics, and there's a missing roleblock claim.

[ghug]

also what does NAI mean

Needs Additional Invective

We say it when somebody's being too nice.

[BesharamSabi]

Kinda weird reactions some of yall had about scum hunting.

Will expand in a few hours. Playing civ and have to pack. I will be traveling tomorrow, back to FL. Again.

Reactions to what, specifically?

Warming up dinner during my civ break:

Mainly tfb insistance we shouldn't kill off one team and saying we should target the other team instead.

Just seemed off because why would you want two night kill instead of one. Plus it's better to make this multi scum team game into a regular one.

There was a few others but that stood out to me the most.

[BesharamSabi]

I assume we don't want to turn this into a 9-3 game after the day vote kill and the other mafia NK given the other mafia team has had a chance to make good reads and claims to blend in.

Why do you want to keep both scum teams around?

Because a 9-3 game in which multiple members of mafia have likely been able to hide in deep because of good prior reads is hard. At this point the 1 mafia guy left on Durga's team, if they are any good, have to be scum hunting to try and even up the odds and bet on us also hitting the other scum team and counting on the other scum team to miss him and do the dirty work of killing town.

In an 8-2-1 game, town has a much higher chance of winning (assuming for the sake of this math that the other mafia misses on this shot). There is a decent chance the enemy teams hit each other once again which makes life even easier for us. The two mafia teams are each other's worst enemies and that can work in town's interest to keep the last Kolechian alive. Also good to note is that there are no more Kolechian power roles left. The Ezic power roles left are the blocker and the forger. An NK hitting either of those from the other mafia team would massively spike town win odds.

OK you explained that but as town I like our odds better with one team. All it takes is both scum teams to night kill two VT or even a village pr and we are fucked. I want this multi scum team game to be singular.

Two night kills is too high. I'm sorry not sorry.

[BesharamSabi]

OK a quick scan of eod:

Why were some of yall so pushy about outing someone, esp a PR, about a role block message?

I need to read said people again but that was odd thing to push for esp during EOD.

[BesharamSabi]

Hi lfischl if you survive the night, hopefully the doctor saves you, I do have some questions for you about the dayvig thing. Remind me in like 24 hours.

[BesharamSabi]

Does anyone want to read durga x Flum interactions with me?

[Squigs44]

OK a quick scan of eod:

Why were some of yall so pushy about outing someone, esp a PR, about a role block message?

I need to read said people again but that was odd thing to push for esp during EOD.

No one is suggesting a PR out themselves. Just to say "I was roleblocked" and leave it at that. Think of it this way:

What info does town gain if someone shares that they were roleblocked?
What info does scum gain if someone shares that they were roleblocked?

Most likely the RB was just used on Durga when team Ezic killed her (assuming the Kolechians didn't kill Durga although a Bus drive gone bad could be possible)

[snowy801]

Does anyone want to read durga x Flum interactions with me?

What would you like to focus on?

[BesharamSabi]

OK a quick scan of eod:

Why were some of yall so pushy about outing someone, esp a PR, about a role block message?

I need to read said people again but that was odd thing to push for esp during EOD.

No one is suggesting a PR out themselves. Just to say "I was roleblocked" and leave it at that. Think of it this way:

What info does town gain if someone shares that they were roleblocked?
What info does scum gain if someone shares that they were roleblocked?

Most likely the RB was just used on Durga when team Ezic killed her (assuming the Kolechians didn't kill Durga although a Bus drive gone bad could be possible)

Wouldn't that also out the person if they were pr too.

I just think it's a bad idea to admit you were roleblocked because it's just giving ammo to scum.

[TheFlyingBoat]

Does anyone want to read durga x Flum interactions with me?

What do you hope to find/what are you looking for?

[TheFlyingBoat]

Kinda weird reactions some of yall had about scum hunting.

Will expand in a few hours. Playing civ and have to pack. I will be traveling tomorrow, back to FL. Again.

Reactions to what, specifically?

Warming up dinner during my civ break:

Mainly tfb insistance we shouldn't kill off one team and saying we should target the other team instead.

Just seemed off because why would you want two night kill instead of one. Plus it's better to make this multi scum team game into a regular one.

There was a few others but that stood out to me the most.

Because mafia isn't necessarily aiming for town. We literally haven't killed any mafia by day votes Sabi. We got a vig kill and an NK. These kills are pro town and the last living Kolechian has insanely strong incentives to take shots at the other team.

[TheFlyingBoat]

Why do you want to keep both scum teams around?

Because a 9-3 game in which multiple members of mafia have likely been able to hide in deep because of good prior reads is hard. At this point the 1 mafia guy left on Durga's team, if they are any good, have to be scum hunting to try and even up the odds and bet on us also hitting the other scum team and counting on the other scum team to miss him and do the dirty work of killing town.

In an 8-2-1 game, town has a much higher chance of winning (assuming for the sake of this math that the other mafia misses on this shot). There is a decent chance the enemy teams hit each other once again which makes life even easier for us. The two mafia teams are each other's worst enemies and that can work in town's interest to keep the last Kolechian alive. Also good to note is that there are no more Kolechian power roles left. The Ezic power roles left are the blocker and the forger. An NK hitting either of those from the other mafia team would massively spike town win odds.

OK you explained that but as town I like our odds better with one team. All it takes is both scum teams to night kill two VT or even a village pr and we are fucked. I want this multi scum team game to be singular.

Two night kills is too high. I'm sorry not sorry.

That's literally not true. Please scroll back to page like 10 where I explain that town can win during a night phase where they enter it as one town versus two scum because the optimal play for them is to shoot at who they think is scum because the only way they win the game is if they hit scum and the other guy misses. KILO also actually gets too us just as fast in a world with only one scum team but the odds are far worse. If we go to 9-3 we get two miskills before we're at MKLO since we'd go 7-3 5-3, possibly go NK, and then take the KILO shot or take a potentially game losing shot right there. In an 8-2-1 world we could go all the way down to 2-2-1 which before it's KILO which isn't even a bad position tbh compared to 5-3 where mafia can point to their scum hunt and reads from past turns in a way to disguise themselves in an effective manner.

[snowy801]

TFB seems awfully invested in not killing scum

[TheFlyingBoat]

TFB seems awfully invested in not killing scum

Invested in shooting into the other team*. Unless you think I am Durga and Flum's last team mate (which if you do, just lol), I don't see how you can think this is scummy at all, because then the only world in which I am scum requires me to be arguing for shooting into my team to the exclusion of shooting into the other which just seems silly since shooting into the other team would maximize the odds of my hypothetical un-killed team to date surviving and winning this game.

[Squigs44]

OK a quick scan of eod:

Why were some of yall so pushy about outing someone, esp a PR, about a role block message?

I need to read said people again but that was odd thing to push for esp during EOD.

No one is suggesting a PR out themselves. Just to say "I was roleblocked" and leave it at that. Think of it this way:

What info does town gain if someone shares that they were roleblocked?
What info does scum gain if someone shares that they were roleblocked?

Most likely the RB was just used on Durga when team Ezic killed her (assuming the Kolechians didn't kill Durga although a Bus drive gone bad could be possible)

Wouldn't that also out the person if they were pr too.

I just think it's a bad idea to admit you were roleblocked because it's just giving ammo to scum.

I think if you try to answer my questions I posed to you, you might realize why both of points here are wrong

[TheFlyingBoat]

Like either I am dumb or crazy, because I can't understand how it isn't obvious we should be shooting into the other team right now.

[Squigs44]

TFB while I think your reasoning is okay based on your premise, I think your assumption that the last Kolechian will specifically be targeting the Ezic team is incorrect. All they care about is surviving now, and there are two ways they can die: NK and DK vote. They can increase their probability of surviving during the day guaranteed by killing townread players or townclears, while they have to off three Ezic members before that kill goes away. Yes they need the Ezic team to die, but I don't think they're just gonna kill who we want.

[snowy801]

TFB seems awfully invested in not killing scum

Invested in shooting into the other team*. Unless you think I am Durga and Flum's last team mate (which if you do, just lol), I don't see how you can think this is scummy at all, because then the only world in which I am scum requires me to be arguing for shooting into my team to the exclusion of shooting into the other which just seems silly since shooting into the other team would maximize the odds of my hypothetical un-killed team to date surviving and winning this game.

"only way you can scum read is x" is a scummy statement