MAFIA 71: "PAPERS PLEASE" - GAME THREAD [Hidden]

[ghug]

I’m only asking to refine your process. We’ll get to a meaningful answer. We’re going to be working together for a while this game, and you want to keep learning and growing as a player. There will be a lot of questions and you will be even better by the end of it
You used the word “contribute.” In the context of mafia, what does that mean to you? (I happen to think I did contribute, but I don’t think it’s in the way you meant.)


It’s up in the air. They need to keep town divided, but they also need to eliminate each other. Multiple-mafia games play meaningfully differently from regular mafia games, but you can still apply a lot of the same town lessons from previous games.

My instinct as scum last game was to act like I was going to teach Sabi how to play. ##VOTE Eden

Let's look at the history of people teaching me in my three games so far:

Snowy did it m70 while scum.
Bunny did it 1019 while scum.
Ghug and Deathllama both did it in 1020 while scum.


Is there a reason why scum target me to buddy by telling me they want to help me be a better player? Why is this a pattern? What is it about me that makes scum buddy me this way?

It's easier to offer game-agnostic advice than to tie yourself to thoughts.

[BesharamSabi]

Let’s look at the history of people teaching me in my three games so far:

Snowy did it m70 while scum.
Bunny did it 1019 while scum.
Ghug and Deathllama both did it in 1020 while scum.


Is there a reason why scum target me to buddy by telling me they want to help me be a better player? Why is this a pattern? What is it about me that makes scum buddy me this way?

Firstly, I made a smaller effort to do that in M70, while town. snowy also made a pass at it in M1020 while town.
I didn’t know you as well in M70 and didn’t feel like it was my place to do that then, but now you clearly want to improve, and we have enough rapport for me to attempt it in the middle of a game, despite getting considerable flak for it from ego-invested players who really should know better by now, but don’t.

So it isn’t strictly a “mafia do this” act, and examining the content of each attempt will better help you figure out the answer.

The key difference is that I’m actually attempting to help, making a systemic pass at things like “what does it mean to contribute,” “what responses do you expect town and mafia to have to these questions,” while they made superficial passes at it that steered you toward specific conclusions that fit the mafia’s agenda.

All things which ghug should immediately be able to appreciate, but apparently does not.

Well I am sorry for being a tiny bit of wary (or vary) of it. Deathllama broke my brain last game so you can't blame me for the slight sus of this.

I do appreciate that we became friends in the last month and I greatly appreciate your advice on being a better player.

I guess I need to be better at reading between the lines when people are helping me to see if it fits mafia agenda or not.

Why are kgrey and G hug targeting you for helping me?

[ghug]

1. I fully support the prohibition on +1s.

2. Eden and Sabi are... something. I definitely haven't played with Sabi and I'm pretty sure I haven't played with Eden, but their reputations certainly do precede them.

3. This is going to be a long shitpost phase.

You've read the game up to this point and determined it will be a long shitpost phase? I was surprised at how fast it got serious for some people

I mean, the posts are still shit...

[kgray]

Let’s look at the history of people teaching me in my three games so far:

Snowy did it m70 while scum.
Bunny did it 1019 while scum.
Ghug and Deathllama both did it in 1020 while scum.


Is there a reason why scum target me to buddy by telling me they want to help me be a better player? Why is this a pattern? What is it about me that makes scum buddy me this way?

Firstly, I made a smaller effort to do that in M70, while town. snowy also made a pass at it in M1020 while town.
I didn’t know you as well in M70 and didn’t feel like it was my place to do that then, but now you clearly want to improve, and we have enough rapport for me to attempt it in the middle of a game, despite getting considerable flak for it from ego-invested players who really should know better by now, but don’t.

So it isn’t strictly a “mafia do this” act, and examining the content of each attempt will better help you figure out the answer.

The key difference is that I’m actually attempting to help, making a systemic pass at things like “what does it mean to contribute,” “what responses do you expect town and mafia to have to these questions,” while they made superficial passes at it that steered you toward specific conclusions that fit the mafia’s agenda.

All things which ghug should immediately be able to appreciate, but apparently does not.

Well I am sorry for being a tiny bit of wary (or vary) of it. Deathllama broke my brain last game so you can't blame me for the slight sus of this.

I do appreciate that we became friends in the last month and I greatly appreciate your advice on being a better player.

I guess I need to be better at reading between the lines when people are helping me to see if it fits mafia agenda or not.

Why are kgrey and G hug targeting you for helping me?

why do you think ghug and i are targeting Eden for helping you? neither of us are

[brainbomb]

##Vote Eden

I feel like it would be a fun thing to do for now

explain?

[ghug]

Let’s look at the history of people teaching me in my three games so far:

Snowy did it m70 while scum.
Bunny did it 1019 while scum.
Ghug and Deathllama both did it in 1020 while scum.


Is there a reason why scum target me to buddy by telling me they want to help me be a better player? Why is this a pattern? What is it about me that makes scum buddy me this way?

Firstly, I made a smaller effort to do that in M70, while town. snowy also made a pass at it in M1020 while town.
I didn’t know you as well in M70 and didn’t feel like it was my place to do that then, but now you clearly want to improve, and we have enough rapport for me to attempt it in the middle of a game, despite getting considerable flak for it from ego-invested players who really should know better by now, but don’t.

So it isn’t strictly a “mafia do this” act, and examining the content of each attempt will better help you figure out the answer.

The key difference is that I’m actually attempting to help, making a systemic pass at things like “what does it mean to contribute,” “what responses do you expect town and mafia to have to these questions,” while they made superficial passes at it that steered you toward specific conclusions that fit the mafia’s agenda.

All things which ghug should immediately be able to appreciate, but apparently does not.

Yeah, I didn't push Sabi towards specific conclusions at all. I resisted their questioning to teach them how to push. Try again.

[ghug]

You've read the game up to this point and determined it will be a long shitpost phase? I was surprised at how fast it got serious for some people

Oh, I'm interpreting all of that as part of the shitpost phase.

Then I'm afraid Eden will be shitposting all game

Plus one

[ghug]

Oh, I'm interpreting all of that as part of the shitpost phase.

Then I'm afraid Eden will be shitposting all game

I did already say that his reputation preceded him, didn't I?

Plus one

[President Eden]

tbh I had no idea you were voting Sabi prior to your vote change

i never thought you missed it, i thought you ignored it. and if you’re scum then you’d know town!sabi is town, though that doesn’t apply as much here

thank you for the brevity in this post though, it actually did help me see your point. sorry, i’m probably gonna be lazy this game so i appreciate as many tldrs as you can provide

There are tactical reasons not to acknowledge townslips. For one, as you saw, the discussion was already necessarily detailed and a bit tedious. Cutting out a now-irrelevant thread helps, especially when it was plain as day to anyone reading along what had happened. For another, I got what I wanted out of that part of the exchange (Sabi’s alignment), so it was time to move along.

And while there’s not a lot of utility in this case (because the townslip was plain as day, I think), in general I think I perform better when I am not hipfiring everything I observe at the first opportunity. That slip doesn’t happen if I don’t ask the questions the way I did. Mafia are at an especially low point in terms of information, so keeping things to yourself can be beneficial in inducing mafia mistakes from imperfect information.

[BesharamSabi]

Firstly, I made a smaller effort to do that in M70, while town. snowy also made a pass at it in M1020 while town.
I didn’t know you as well in M70 and didn’t feel like it was my place to do that then, but now you clearly want to improve, and we have enough rapport for me to attempt it in the middle of a game, despite getting considerable flak for it from ego-invested players who really should know better by now, but don’t.

So it isn’t strictly a “mafia do this” act, and examining the content of each attempt will better help you figure out the answer.

The key difference is that I’m actually attempting to help, making a systemic pass at things like “what does it mean to contribute,” “what responses do you expect town and mafia to have to these questions,” while they made superficial passes at it that steered you toward specific conclusions that fit the mafia’s agenda.

All things which ghug should immediately be able to appreciate, but apparently does not.

Well I am sorry for being a tiny bit of wary (or vary) of it. Deathllama broke my brain last game so you can't blame me for the slight sus of this.

I do appreciate that we became friends in the last month and I greatly appreciate your advice on being a better player.

I guess I need to be better at reading between the lines when people are helping me to see if it fits mafia agenda or not.

Why are kgrey and G hug targeting you for helping me?

why do you think ghug and i are targeting Eden for helping you? neither of us are

You two have been the only ones direct about it. Foxcastle and Bona and brain bomb have merely hinted at it.

I'm just wondering why.

[TheFlyingBoat]

##Vote Eden

I feel like it would be a fun thing to do for now

explain?

? Eden and I went to rival university's and I like messing with the guy. Nothing much is known yet and it is as good of a place to park my vote as any before I am given reason to join a real wagon.

[ghug]

Put them in fewer words and I’ll read them more closely

I put it in two words. “UNVOTE Sabi.”
When lfischl asked for clarification, I put it in 13 words. “This vote increases my odds of voting for mafia from 0% to not-0%.”

Don’t put your sloppy attempt to look townie on me.

I submit that removing Eden is pro-town regardless of his alignment. I'm already exhausted.

[kgray]

Well I am sorry for being a tiny bit of wary (or vary) of it. Deathllama broke my brain last game so you can't blame me for the slight sus of this.

I do appreciate that we became friends in the last month and I greatly appreciate your advice on being a better player.

I guess I need to be better at reading between the lines when people are helping me to see if it fits mafia agenda or not.

Why are kgrey and G hug targeting you for helping me?

why do you think ghug and i are targeting Eden for helping you? neither of us are

wait, maybe ghug is. i won't speak for him anyway

[ghug]

##Vote Eden

I feel like it would be a fun thing to do for now

explain?

? Eden and I went to rival university's and I like messing with the guy. Nothing much is known yet and it is as good of a place to park my vote as any before I am given reason to join a real wagon.

I didn't know there were any universities worse than Eden's, but here we are at "university's" and now I'm wondering.

[TheFlyingBoat]

explain?

? Eden and I went to rival university's and I like messing with the guy. Nothing much is known yet and it is as good of a place to park my vote as any before I am given reason to join a real wagon.

I didn't know there were any universities worse than Eden's, but here we are at "university's" and now I'm wondering.

My only defense is I used speech to text for everything after the first question mark, because I am cooking and did not read the message before hitting send. God that is embarrassing though.

[ghug]

Well I am sorry for being a tiny bit of wary (or vary) of it. Deathllama broke my brain last game so you can't blame me for the slight sus of this.

I do appreciate that we became friends in the last month and I greatly appreciate your advice on being a better player.

I guess I need to be better at reading between the lines when people are helping me to see if it fits mafia agenda or not.

Why are kgrey and G hug targeting you for helping me?

why do you think ghug and i are targeting Eden for helping you? neither of us are

wait, maybe ghug is. i won't speak for him anyway

I suppose I am but there's more to it than that.

[brainbomb]

? Eden and I went to rival university's and I like messing with the guy. Nothing much is known yet and it is as good of a place to park my vote as any before I am given reason to join a real wagon.

I didn't know there were any universities worse than Eden's, but here we are at "university's" and now I'm wondering.

My only defense is I used speech to text for everything after the first question mark, because I am cooking and did not read the message before hitting send. God that is embarrassing though.

did you feel like ghug was pressuring you here?

[TheFlyingBoat]

I didn't know there were any universities worse than Eden's, but here we are at "university's" and now I'm wondering.

My only defense is I used speech to text for everything after the first question mark, because I am cooking and did not read the message before hitting send. God that is embarrassing though.

did you feel like ghug was pressuring you here?

I felt like it was an appropriate response to an egregious mistake.

[President Eden]

Well I am sorry for being a tiny bit of wary (or vary) of it. Deathllama broke my brain last game so you can’t blame me for the slight sus of this.

Sure, and I don’t. I’m more annoyed with the laziness of other players who want their 25%-of-the-time-it-works-everytime heuristics to carry them instead of putting in the work. I didn’t townslip yet after all

I guess I need to be better at reading between the lines when people are helping me to see if it fits mafia agenda or not.

Why are kgrey and G hug targeting you for helping me?

As I've reflected on it more, I would probably do this as either alignment, so who knows. It's more of a person than a role thing, I think.

I think the last part is more of a question for them, but I think they were being lazy and taking the easy heuristics. I mean ghug is literally employing the “X did Y -> I wouldn’t do Y in this situation -> I am town -> town wouldn’t do Y in this situation -> X is not town” heuristic that did so well last game. They’ll come around, or they won’t. I guess they’re both slightly above 6/16 to be mafia for it, so they’re not bad shots, but it’s early yet.

[President Eden]

Yea in all honesty guys I don’t really enjoy playing mafia when I’m being constantly ragged on for how I play, even while it has generated the only decisive information of the game to this point.

If you think it’s pro-town to remove me from the game then continue.