M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

[Squigs44]

Am I really your top scum read? Or are you voting only on team potential connections?

You are in my smaller pool of PoE, but my vote is based also on connections as well as how the wagons are currently sitting and where I'd like to see pressure

What are the connections between darg and damo/bozo?

It's more the lack of connections, I guess. Darg fits in a scumteam with damo/bozo (and several others) because he doesn't have any interactions that prevent him from being teammates with them

[dargorygel]

Perhaps I have spent too much time watching games from outside, as Kouncil or co-GM. But i watch, and jump in when i have something worthwhile to say. I think I have had things to offer this game. No master plans, no elaborate tinfoil hats, no mathematical presentations... but that is normal for me.

How are we supposed to distinguish this from scum doing the same thing?

For me, when I have been scum I interact less... But I admit it IS hard to distinguish. Which is why I have a lot of misskills.

[ghug]

1. bozo: ghug/damo/Jamie, ghug/damo/Jamie/BesharamSabi
2. damo: Sabi + 2 from darg/ghug/DL/Squigs (that order), Sabi + 3 of those
3. llama - bozo/damo/darg(/ghug)
4. Ghug- jamie/bozo/darg
5. Darg- ghug, bona, bozo/ and for a fourth: second ghug, or maybe damo.

Can you explain each of these reads?

First, i switched bozo and damo.
Ghug- i see the signs of super-ghug manipulating misskills. Key moments of votes, and the push on me seems odd when there are so many other actors.
bona- I think he was rescued.
bozo- squirming, squirming, under pressure.
damo- because I needed a fourth... I agreed with some of the recent reads of him.

You don't think you warrant some pressure at potential KILO after having not really played since you subbed in?

[ghug]

Can you explain each of these reads?

First, i switched bozo and damo.
Ghug- i see the signs of super-ghug manipulating misskills. Key moments of votes, and the push on me seems odd when there are so many other actors.
bona- I think he was rescued.
bozo- squirming, squirming, under pressure.
damo- because I needed a fourth... I agreed with some of the recent reads of him.

You don't think you warrant some pressure at potential KILO after having not really played since you subbed in?

Who rescued bona? What would you expect town bozo to be doing here?

[DeathLlama8]

Is this because of damos vote on Sabi?

- A lot of the longer posts feel pretty forced (e.g. that potential scum teammates post, the process of elimination d1 post that led to a bo vote) and not really directly generating pressure or looking for mafia
- Never really explained a snowy vote or a reason to leave bozo alive and remained static at EOD which could be bozo protection
- the weird progression on sabi might be indicative of a scum mindset wrt looking for possible miskills I guess? this might be NAI but it's weird

Okay thanks. That first point you have about teammates and poe is actually just standard damo playstyle. ghug thinks it's towny, and you think it's scummy, but I think it's nai and could come from either

idk people keep saying this but it's not really the impression I got from their town play last game

[dargorygel]

Can you explain each of these reads?

First, i switched bozo and damo.
Ghug- i see the signs of super-ghug manipulating misskills. Key moments of votes, and the push on me seems odd when there are so many other actors.
bona- I think he was rescued.
bozo- squirming, squirming, under pressure.
damo- because I needed a fourth... I agreed with some of the recent reads of him.

You don't think you warrant some pressure at potential KILO after having not really played since you subbed in?

While I hope it doesn't END this way, sure. I'm not upset about the pressure. It usually happens. Some are able to read me, vecna, kgray, brain, and i THOUGHT you...

I also do not think that I 'haven't' played. I do not play like you, no.

[dargorygel]

First, i switched bozo and damo.
Ghug- i see the signs of super-ghug manipulating misskills. Key moments of votes, and the push on me seems odd when there are so many other actors.
bona- I think he was rescued.
bozo- squirming, squirming, under pressure.
damo- because I needed a fourth... I agreed with some of the recent reads of him.

You don't think you warrant some pressure at potential KILO after having not really played since you subbed in?

Who rescued bona? What would you expect town bozo to be doing here?

I do not really know who rescued... you, for one, had movements that seem suspect. I do not think the ones who announced s=they were saving to be scum. But Over the day, it appears to me that as bona grew, oppositions grew.

I also found his day 1 night 1 arguments to be un-bona. He has improved, imo.

[dargorygel]

I also have not done too much 'team connection.'

[DeathLlama8]

I do not really know who rescued... you, for one, had movements that seem suspect. I do not think the ones who announced s=they were saving to be scum.

I mean tbf the people who announced they were saving were foodcoats (flipped town) and worcej (you)

[DeathLlama8]

Perhaps I have spent too much time watching games from outside, as Kouncil or co-GM. But i watch, and jump in when i have something worthwhile to say. I think I have had things to offer this game. No master plans, no elaborate tinfoil hats, no mathematical presentations... but that is normal for me.

How are we supposed to distinguish this from scum doing the same thing?

For me, when I have been scum I interact less... But I admit it IS hard to distinguish. Which is why I have a lot of misskills.

do you see why this is a problem at potential KILO

[dargorygel]

I do not really know who rescued... you, for one, had movements that seem suspect. I do not think the ones who announced s=they were saving to be scum.

I mean tbf the people who announced they were saving were foodcoats (flipped town) and worcej (you)

Aye, I referred to that.
It felt on re-reading after the fact, that there was a movement throughout the day.

Notice i am not voting for bona today.

[Bonatogether]

This might be the most I've disagreed with you this game.

I still think putting Sabi as locktown is a bad idea, especially if you're talking about potential Bozo connections. I'm not voting Sabi today, but leaving them out of a potential scumteam is restrictive imo.

I dont really get why you're excluding damo as a Bozo scum partner. To me, damo is one of the more likely Bozo partners. Really the only person damo couldn't be scum with is probably Sabi. No matter what angle I look at, damo seems to end up in my PoE, but never as a strong scumread.

Jamie looks more townie to me in the last day than at any other point in this game. I do think Jamie is a very capable busser as scum, but in this instance I don't think Jamie is scum based off of other posts.

Re Sabi: you haven't played with them yet. I have a very hard time believing that this game would be inside their scum range, and if they're teammates with bozo specifically, there's no fucking way there aren't two others. We should not be wasting our time on Sabi today.

Damo's D2 came off very townie to me (he's not good at faking the thing where he spams barely comprehensible thoughts on a bunch of pairs, and there were a few moments like the one where he said he had an idea and then determined it was a non-starter that I liked), and I think the bozo connection is especially unlikely. I'm not eliminating him totally in a bozo-as-town world, but I definitely don't think he's bozo's teammate.

What's making you lean towards town on Jamie?

According to Sabi:

This is my third ever forum mafia game that isn't the board/card game version and I have been town so far, no idea tbh.

So I'm not sure how you've built up a meta to know this isn't scum Sabi. But I agree that Sabi should not be the focus today.

I think it would be easy for scum damo to replicate his scumpairings analysis thing and non-starters, so I'm gonna have to disagree with you there.

My townread on Jamie comes mostly from vibes in his more recent posts.

sabi had a very strong meta in her first two games

[dargorygel]

How are we supposed to distinguish this from scum doing the same thing?

For me, when I have been scum I interact less... But I admit it IS hard to distinguish. Which is why I have a lot of misskills.

do you see why this is a problem at potential KILO

I see why it could be, yes. I do not see why it must be. 'non activity' seems less scummy than ghug maniplulating (which I acknowledge no one else sees, and I already said i might be 'out there.' Or bozo's twisting under the spotlight.

[Bonatogether]

Apparently so.

so we agree people who scumread you are not inherently scum

are all people who are scum inherently scumreading you?

Bona I have no clue what you're planning to accomplish with this line of questioning, but I'd prefer you not get back into your day 1 mindset of trying to trip people up by using leading questions and then misinterpreting what they say. Your day 2 was much better

read and ignored

[DeathLlama8]

Re Sabi: you haven't played with them yet. I have a very hard time believing that this game would be inside their scum range, and if they're teammates with bozo specifically, there's no fucking way there aren't two others. We should not be wasting our time on Sabi today.

Damo's D2 came off very townie to me (he's not good at faking the thing where he spams barely comprehensible thoughts on a bunch of pairs, and there were a few moments like the one where he said he had an idea and then determined it was a non-starter that I liked), and I think the bozo connection is especially unlikely. I'm not eliminating him totally in a bozo-as-town world, but I definitely don't think he's bozo's teammate.

What's making you lean towards town on Jamie?

According to Sabi:

This is my third ever forum mafia game that isn't the board/card game version and I have been town so far, no idea tbh.

So I'm not sure how you've built up a meta to know this isn't scum Sabi. But I agree that Sabi should not be the focus today.

I think it would be easy for scum damo to replicate his scumpairings analysis thing and non-starters, so I'm gonna have to disagree with you there.

My townread on Jamie comes mostly from vibes in his more recent posts.

sabi had a very strong meta in their first two games

[ghug]

First, i switched bozo and damo.
Ghug- i see the signs of super-ghug manipulating misskills. Key moments of votes, and the push on me seems odd when there are so many other actors.
bona- I think he was rescued.
bozo- squirming, squirming, under pressure.
damo- because I needed a fourth... I agreed with some of the recent reads of him.

You don't think you warrant some pressure at potential KILO after having not really played since you subbed in?

While I hope it doesn't END this way, sure. I'm not upset about the pressure. It usually happens. Some are able to read me, vecna, kgray, brain, and i THOUGHT you...

I also do not think that I 'haven't' played. I do not play like you, no.

You didn't commit to any reads, participate in EoD, or talk that much outside of some generic meta discussion N2. What conclusions are people supposed to be drawing from that?

[Bonatogether]

Apparently so.

so we agree people who scumread you are not inherently scum

are all people who are scum inherently scumreading you?

Not in general, pocketing is common, but a lot of players seemed to be scum reading me D2.

so there's a broad consensus that your actions are most likely to have been done by a scum!bozo

what is the fundamental misunderstanding into your thought process or playstyle that you would clear up that is leading to this discrepancy (town!bozo being broadly scumread)?

[Jamiet99uk]

Oh Bozo's doing a survey, he must be town after all.

[Jamiet99uk]

I'll contribute more soon, I'm just at the gym.

[Bonatogether]

I wasn't in M70, so I'm not going to be able to assess that meta without rereading a whole mafia game which I'd rather not do

long story short: i caught bozo on exactly that meta, he claimed doc, the counterwagon cced, i was attacked but saved, bozo said he saved a different person, so we dked him. this is why i brought up his posts from last game, as the situation is not entirely dissimilar, imo

I do not see how you are comparing this game to that game, and besides, I thought your theory was that I was deliberately trying to play different than that game.

my idea that you picked up on the fact that your meta is easy to read, and you're trying to change it but you're having issues following through, because you're still the same player. People don't fundamentally change the way they think about this game in the 2 or 3 weeks since that game ended