M1019 – Once Upon A Time… [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

[DeathLlama8]

why did y'all think it was doom?
also next game I'm policy voting the first person to post an emoji

[DeathLlama8]

doom, do you think bunny is scum or town?

[Doom427]

doom, do you think bunny is scum or town?

I think I'm actually leaning town, Fs in chat for me.

I did a brief reread of Durga, and not seeing much reason to townread her, but haven't actually drafted up that post yet. Haven't yet started read of you yet.

[Durga]

F indeed...

[BesharamSabi]

Sabi First- b/c easiest

Their posts--
The story of the neverending tunnel on me. They were convinced I was playing differently, and most of their game posts were foccused on that, saying I couldn't have been VT (Sorry to disaapoint).

They also did some jumping on TFB defense of me. We also have the baffling move to vote RDR while getting pressure to save themselves with like, a full day before votes are finalized. It all adds up to... bad signs.

Day 3 they decide I'm actually cool, and probably Lost Sibling, and Damo just... umm... heavily implied that wasn't the case (I was so close to just hard-claim and hope he townread me hard enough to know I was faking it as town)

They also jump on Jamie, feel Jamie is scum, and do vote for him. But that vote was super late, and when the writing was well and fully on the walls.

Ok, let's see how others interact with them-

Umm, there's not much to say, but this was a good quote/discussion between death/flb

uote=TheFlyingBoat post_id=271577 time=1635133284 user_id=13597]

1. sabi was jamiet's second highest scumread for all of d3, and jamiet voted #1 (doom) and #3 (bunny) for the entire day without really pressuring or interacting with sabi at all

> An actually interesting catch, I'll reread their interactions later today, but this could actually be suggestive of something, since I could see Jamie trying to create distance between the two without actually bussing them.

2. sabi brought up unprompted that they townread jamiet and didn't understand where his wagon was coming from (although they said today that they townread everyone), made one post about how bunny's evidence on jamiet seemed solid, then voted for jamiet at eod because he was the biggest wagon and they had to vote someone

>This just strikes me as classic Sabi. As mentioned Sabi, whether town or scum, just seems incredibly scum when put under any pressure as they get incredibly defensive and passive-aggressive. NAI imo for them.

3. otherwise, sabi didn't really give opinions on kakarroto and jamiet for the entire game, explicitly avoiding commenting on kakarroto's claim directly while casting shade on both damo and kakarroto

>Once again, classic Sabi. I saw them do similar things last game. They seem to not want to resolve power claim disputes in their analysis, viewing them all with blanket suspicion while simultaneously hunting for them and trying to out them. It is odd but I would probably also NAI for Sabi.

4. sabi has been openly speculating on PRs in the thread, which I guess is NAI but is also objectively bad

> Agreed and see above.

5. sabi posted a giant case on doom, then didn't really push her at all, and otherwise hasn't really been scumhunting recently

Unfortunately, I feel like am going to be repeating myself a lot. Sabi will have cases on people and not push them at all. Probably NAI for them.

6. I don't really have a reason to townread sabi other than vibes given by individual posts (which I'm not particularly good at interpreting) or believe miskilling sabi before milo would be particularly bad for town

> Agreed. Every now and then I read their posts and think "oh this probably wouldn't be said if they were coached by mafia properly" or "that seems like a bit of a township since it should be fairly obvious, especially for scum" but I just don't know if I can really count on that. Combine that with behavior I said I would scum read if it was literally anyone else and I find myself in a difficult conundrum when it comes to how to handle them.

That being said I do disagree with your last point. I don't think mis-killing Sabi before milo would be that bad beyond the fact that we wasted a shot. But given that they are in my target list, Durga's target list, in your sightlines, and presumably that of others, I think they are a reasonable target with decent chance of success, albeit less than rdr or Bunny, and I think are someone I would prefer to not have for milo for the exact reasons Snowy wanted them there for his planned 1vAll final stand.

I agree that point 1 is the biggest scum indicator. The others are scummy, But also Sabi. Sabi, ily, but god, you're making this hard for me. I guess I'm also making things hard for you tho, cause you're scumreading me hard. I guess this mafia forum ain't big enough for both of us :-9

In general, I sorta put Sabi as a "If no other option" area. There's plenty of reasons to scumread, but... I don't think they're scum. They could be, and we could be totally fucked here (god, I'm worried about that). Really wish we had some proof one way or the other on Sabi, but that's not happening. Others likely have more reasons to read one way or the other. This big reread is almost entirely NAI.

Heh, Nai... Nya. When we don't know your alignment, you're a catperson. Ok, I had to post that joke, that finishes this first read. I'll do some work, then jump back on for next one
[/quote]

Damn shawty OK.

I know I'm hard to read and all of this is nai but I get it. I tunneled too hard on you and that's my fault.

Maybe I need to listen to the opposite of my gut? I think so.

[BesharamSabi]

Well I fucked up that quote....

[Doom427]

F indeed...

I'm just stuck on how most of my scumread of Bunny is that last game he didn't come across as aggressive. But like, surely aggressive play=town, nice play=scum? That seems like one of the most obvious assumptions to make in the world?

I mean, yeah, I scum read him more than I do RDR, but I can't go back in time and say "Fuck it, Y'all jump to Bunny instead of me staying on RDR". We get two kills. I want to be a little more sure of them.

[Durga]

F indeed...

I'm just stuck on how most of my scumread of Bunny is that last game he didn't come across as aggressive. But like, surely aggressive play=town, nice play=scum? That seems like one of the most obvious assumptions to make in the world?

I mean, yeah, I scum read him more than I do RDR, but I can't go back in time and say "Fuck it, Y'all jump to Bunny instead of me staying on RDR". We get two kills. I want to be a little more sure of them.

Are you saying he's aggressive or nice now?

[DeathLlama8]

durga - iirc you were townreading bunny pretty hard yesterday? what changed

[Doom427]

F indeed...

I'm just stuck on how most of my scumread of Bunny is that last game he didn't come across as aggressive. But like, surely aggressive play=town, nice play=scum? That seems like one of the most obvious assumptions to make in the world?

I mean, yeah, I scum read him more than I do RDR, but I can't go back in time and say "Fuck it, Y'all jump to Bunny instead of me staying on RDR". We get two kills. I want to be a little more sure of them.

Are you saying he's aggressive or nice now?

I don't even know anymore. I remember the fight with Ghug, and went back through bot, and I don't even see the point anymore. I don't know who's scum, and I can't guess. I'm gonna lurk and see what y'all find out, cause I can't figure this game out. You're the veteran, tell me why you're voting bunny? What feels scummy?

[Durga]

durga - iirc you were townreading bunny pretty hard yesterday? what changed

Where was I townreading him pretty hard?

[Durga]

I'm just stuck on how most of my scumread of Bunny is that last game he didn't come across as aggressive. But like, surely aggressive play=town, nice play=scum? That seems like one of the most obvious assumptions to make in the world?

I mean, yeah, I scum read him more than I do RDR, but I can't go back in time and say "Fuck it, Y'all jump to Bunny instead of me staying on RDR". We get two kills. I want to be a little more sure of them.

Are you saying he's aggressive or nice now?

I don't even know anymore. I remember the fight with Ghug, and went back through bot, and I don't even see the point anymore. I don't know who's scum, and I can't guess. I'm gonna lurk and see what y'all find out, cause I can't figure this game out. You're the veteran, tell me why you're voting bunny? What feels scummy?

Honestly I said this before but this is the most townie I've ever seen bunny play and last game I thought he was soooo scummy but he was town. That being said, he did sub in and was following the game prior so its much easier to fake townie thoughts. Bunny's meta was also hella different when he *was* scum. But it's not out of his range to fake it.

So those are all vibes. In terms of actually trying to solve the game I'm not really convinced bunny cares or is doing so - whereas I feel like you and DL are at least trying - and at this point I find it would be hard to fake? Maybe? Gah

[DeathLlama8]

rip guess I wasn't
I thought you said you didn't want bunny to be the DK a few times but ig that was relative to rdr

[Durga]

Also bunny and ghug fighting is probably NAI but then again scum!bunny fought me ghug and kgray soooo hard last game I was scum with him in (and the rest of us were town)

[Durga]

rip guess I wasn't
I thought you said you didn't want bunny to be the DK a few times but ig that was relative to rdr

Yeah I said I didn't want bunny or Sabi. At this point I feel like any of you could be scum? Gun to my head I kill bunny and if that doesn't work I think Sabi. I am gonna reread after work sometime tonight though

[Doom427]

Honestly I said this before but this is the most townie I've ever seen bunny play and last game I thought he was soooo scummy but he was town. That being said, he did sub in and was following the game prior so its much easier to fake townie thoughts. Bunny's meta was also hella different when he *was* scum. But it's not out of his range to fake it.

So those are all vibes. In terms of actually trying to solve the game I'm not really convinced bunny cares or is doing so - whereas I feel like you and DL are at least trying - and at this point I find it would be hard to fake? Maybe? Gah

I'm willing to buy that-most of Bunny's reads were focused on who's clear, and less on who's scum. Plus the kill of TFB makes the MOST sense with bunny, but tbc I think TFB is the best kill last night and everyone is probably shooting them last night, followed by me/DL if TFB doesn't come up as child.

Anyway-
I did a durga "reread" and by that I mean I saw she parked a vote on Jamie day three and did do a push on him.

hmmmmmmm kinda weird i voted for jamie and he didn't say anything about it. he was like SO ANGRY last game when ppl voted him

And that might be enough for me to say yeah, sure, Durga probably doesn't do this as scum? But I did NOT go through all her posts, cause I'm tired and doing bad at this game right now. Death read will probably be tomorrow.

[Doom427]

Oh, also, on Durga...

town
DL obvtown
snowy even when he pushed me, I didn't feel any malicious vibes.

↓townish
Jamiet
Durga
ghug probably
rd
Vecna
doom maybe a bit higher with doom's latest posts.
flyingboat
damo ← Bin auf der Jagd. Falls ich lebe.
↑not so townish

need more info
Sabi

Sorry no more time for detailed thoughts. Remember my questions. Well, at least I can sleep a bit more. Wished I could be more useful but I guess that's what you get from a sleepy/bad performence me.

I don't know him, but would Kak ACTUALLY put scum team as number 1 and number 2 most townish players here? Esp. when he KNEW he would be flipped? That might be enough to put Durga as my most town read player, actually

[Doom427]

I'm such a flipflopper today. Mafia is making me stressed...

Ok, so I've got

DURGA-Town? Probably?
SABI-NYAH? Probably?
BUNNY-I dunno. Just flat out, I dunno.

Guess I just have to place Death. No one is really putting any pressure his way, so that probably means it's just auto town, in which case I guess VECGO's gotta go.

[Durga]

Oh, also, on Durga...

town
DL obvtown
snowy even when he pushed me, I didn't feel any malicious vibes.

↓townish
Jamiet
Durga
ghug probably
rd
Vecna
doom maybe a bit higher with doom's latest posts.
flyingboat
damo ← Bin auf der Jagd. Falls ich lebe.
↑not so townish

need more info
Sabi

Sorry no more time for detailed thoughts. Remember my questions. Well, at least I can sleep a bit more. Wished I could be more useful but I guess that's what you get from a sleepy/bad performence me.

I don't know him, but would Kak ACTUALLY put scum team as number 1 and number 2 most townish players here? Esp. when he KNEW he would be flipped? That might be enough to put Durga as my most town read player, actually

I mean I feel like we shouldn't read into a list like this (as tempting as it is, and even if it makes me look good?!)

That being said if you go back are read kaka's d2 I distinctly recall him making comments that made me feel like he was trying to set me up or something when he flipped.

[Doom427]

So Death was one of the deciding votes Day 1 against Kak, and Day 3 kept on Jamie a lot. So unless LLama's love busses, a lot, pretty clear. Nothing in the reread really jumped out to me, but the voting record is really solid.