M70 - THE BASKIN-ROBBINS CONSPIRACY [HIDDEN]

[BunnyGo]

The kills cut against the grain and suggest either major errors in basic understanding of the game mechanics, or an intentional disregard for the fact that five people are essentially clear.

The trouble with the “major errors” thesis is twofold:
1. I don’t think anybody alive fits that profile. You’re harping on Sabi, but I don’t get the sense that Sabi misunderstands who is and isn’t clear the way that you do. And even conceding that Sabi fits the profile (which I do not concede, but for sake of argument), unless there’s only one mafia left, someone else has to fit that profile as well. And no one does, in my reading of the game.
2. The weird kills started after bozo died, but Tom was still around for most of them. You’d have to also argue that Tom was unable to correct these major errors in understanding, which is extremely difficult for me to believe.

I might be imposing bold on the team due to my personal outlook, but I’m not intentionally ruling out possibilities without considering them—to me they’re either making basic mistakes or intentionally playing to what I would consider a very bold strategy. If there’s another outlook that makes sense then I’m all ears.

Your point 2 is invalid. The weird kill while tom was live made sense. It was dodging JOAT. And scared of worcej out guessing again.

That’s true. And I would further extend what you’re saying and argue that Fluminator wasn’t a particularly weird kill; he was clear contingent on Chaqa being Cop and appreciably likely just to be town regardless.

That said, it was certainly weird not to roleblock Chaqa that night. And Tom was alive to make sure that it wasn’t the result of error. How do you explain that result?

The other remaining scum is GF. That’s my only thought. But I agree. Was a weird play.

[kgray]

Don’t try and “what if they know then I know. But they knew I would. So I won’t…” this game. Sit in your fucking seat and take the simple shot. Then remeasure.

It's a bad shot though.

I really can't think of a single post I find townier than Sabi praising the heavens that ghug fake-cleared them.

Hmm. What would you think if I said it? What about Doom? Or Eden?

Walk me through why you think it’s towny when Sabi says it?

If you said it I'd be very off-put by that kind of sudden display of excitement, which would have maybe seemed fake to me (assuming this isn't a game where you've claimed Miller, because obvi it'd be a bigger red flag here). Not sure how I'd react to Doom saying it? If Eden responded the way Sabi did and didn't shade Chaqa or brag about being right in the same post I'd be pretty shocked.

But in basically every case, I'd expect scum to be a lot more reserved in their reaction. They'd know ghug was lying and the instinct wouldn't be to gleefully shout that they're in the clear, because they'd know it's fake.

[kgray]

@eden why are you assuming the scum team is bold instead of scared? Or any other thought? You’re superimposing yourself. So that the only way you’d do these things is “bold”. Why does it have to be why the scum team did it?

The kills cut against the grain and suggest either major errors in basic understanding of the game mechanics, or an intentional disregard for the fact that five people are essentially clear.

The trouble with the “major errors” thesis is twofold:
1. I don’t think anybody alive fits that profile. You’re harping on Sabi, but I don’t get the sense that Sabi misunderstands who is and isn’t clear the way that you do. And even conceding that Sabi fits the profile (which I do not concede, but for sake of argument), unless there’s only one mafia left, someone else has to fit that profile as well. And no one does, in my reading of the game.
2. The weird kills started after bozo died, but Tom was still around for most of them. You’d have to also argue that Tom was unable to correct these major errors in understanding, which is extremely difficult for me to believe.

I might be imposing bold on the team due to my personal outlook, but I’m not intentionally ruling out possibilities without considering them—to me they’re either making basic mistakes or intentionally playing to what I would consider a very bold strategy. If there’s another outlook that makes sense then I’m all ears.

I agree. It’s likely one of those two things. But only one player has expressed repeatedly their confusion with the mech clear vs town read.

Let’s settle one option and focus on the other when done.

oh my god so confusion for new players is scummy now

Bunny I can't

it's inarguably a towntell because they don't have people in scumchat to explain the difference

[Chaqa]

Rivera wagon isn’t bad per se but it feels like the lazy answer.

[Doom427]

The kills cut against the grain and suggest either major errors in basic understanding of the game mechanics, or an intentional disregard for the fact that five people are essentially clear.

The trouble with the “major errors” thesis is twofold:
1. I don’t think anybody alive fits that profile. You’re harping on Sabi, but I don’t get the sense that Sabi misunderstands who is and isn’t clear the way that you do. And even conceding that Sabi fits the profile (which I do not concede, but for sake of argument), unless there’s only one mafia left, someone else has to fit that profile as well. And no one does, in my reading of the game.
2. The weird kills started after bozo died, but Tom was still around for most of them. You’d have to also argue that Tom was unable to correct these major errors in understanding, which is extremely difficult for me to believe.

I might be imposing bold on the team due to my personal outlook, but I’m not intentionally ruling out possibilities without considering them—to me they’re either making basic mistakes or intentionally playing to what I would consider a very bold strategy. If there’s another outlook that makes sense then I’m all ears.

I agree. It’s likely one of those two things. But only one player has expressed repeatedly their confusion with the mech clear vs town read.

Let’s settle one option and focus on the other when done.

oh my god so confusion for new players is scummy now

Bunny I can't

it's inarguably a towntell because they don't have people in scumchat to explain the difference

Always remember, ANAS-
All Noobs are Scum

[President Eden]

Your point 2 is invalid. The weird kill while tom was live made sense. It was dodging JOAT. And scared of worcej out guessing again.

That’s true. And I would further extend what you’re saying and argue that Fluminator wasn’t a particularly weird kill; he was clear contingent on Chaqa being Cop and appreciably likely just to be town regardless.

That said, it was certainly weird not to roleblock Chaqa that night. And Tom was alive to make sure that it wasn’t the result of error. How do you explain that result?

The other remaining scum is GF. That’s my only thought. But I agree. Was a weird play.

That probably has to be true, yea. (Which is making me think more about jasnah and Jamie…) I don’t see where that specifically selects for a new partner though. It could, if you think Tom called that shot and the partner, not being at any personal risk, went along with it. But it just as easily fits the “bold mafia” hypothesis.

[BunnyGo]

The kills cut against the grain and suggest either major errors in basic understanding of the game mechanics, or an intentional disregard for the fact that five people are essentially clear.

The trouble with the “major errors” thesis is twofold:
1. I don’t think anybody alive fits that profile. You’re harping on Sabi, but I don’t get the sense that Sabi misunderstands who is and isn’t clear the way that you do. And even conceding that Sabi fits the profile (which I do not concede, but for sake of argument), unless there’s only one mafia left, someone else has to fit that profile as well. And no one does, in my reading of the game.
2. The weird kills started after bozo died, but Tom was still around for most of them. You’d have to also argue that Tom was unable to correct these major errors in understanding, which is extremely difficult for me to believe.

I might be imposing bold on the team due to my personal outlook, but I’m not intentionally ruling out possibilities without considering them—to me they’re either making basic mistakes or intentionally playing to what I would consider a very bold strategy. If there’s another outlook that makes sense then I’m all ears.

I agree. It’s likely one of those two things. But only one player has expressed repeatedly their confusion with the mech clear vs town read.

Let’s settle one option and focus on the other when done.

oh my god so confusion for new players is scummy now

Bunny I can't

it's inarguably a towntell because they don't have people in scumchat to explain the difference

Situationally. Yes.

[President Eden]

Rivera wagon isn’t bad per se but it feels like the lazy answer.

That’s where I’m at. I almost want to marshal the snowy and Vecna wagons together on one of them, cuz I think those are better shots, but at the same time I’m far removed from any confidence rivera is town lol.

[kgray]

Given what we know now, why do we think scum killed damo?

Good question. I don't think it's because they thought he was a cop because Eden was the one who thought that, but he wouldn't have thought damo was the cop if Eden was scum (based on damo claiming Eden to be obvtown).

Eden and Chaqa could both be scum and Eden could have been pushing a fake narrative that damo was the cop, but then I don't see why they don't just try to find the actual cop. Maybe they really did think it was damo, but because of the Durga TV thing?

Damo isn't a super unusual D1 kill but also isn't a common doc target, so it could also just be avoiding a save. I think this is where I'm at because I really don't see how there's a non-Chaqa cop out there.

[Vecna]

im just hoping were not actually still facing 3 scum here

I think KISS applies here

If worcej, bona and TFB all somehow outclaimed doc, NK'd the JOAT the same night TFB fake claimed (for all that their findings are all weirdly interconnected) then I'd sooner lose to that than lose to the paranoia of having missed it

I mean as in, lfischl/jasnah was cop, tom put up shit defen...

You know, whatever

[BunnyGo]

That’s true. And I would further extend what you’re saying and argue that Fluminator wasn’t a particularly weird kill; he was clear contingent on Chaqa being Cop and appreciably likely just to be town regardless.

That said, it was certainly weird not to roleblock Chaqa that night. And Tom was alive to make sure that it wasn’t the result of error. How do you explain that result?

The other remaining scum is GF. That’s my only thought. But I agree. Was a weird play.

That probably has to be true, yea. (Which is making me think more about jasnah and Jamie…) I don’t see where that specifically selects for a new partner though. It could, if you think Tom called that shot and the partner, not being at any personal risk, went along with it. But it just as easily fits the “bold mafia” hypothesis.

It’s why “only 1 scum left so nobody left in scum chat to talk to noob” is part of the thesis.

If there are 2 scum left, then the GF must have been a very likely scan of chaqa.

[Vecna]

Can't fault anyone for that, Veccy.

Jealousy might explain the Flum and Durga NKs though.

Expand on this thought / I dont get it?

Flum's seen me naked and Durga's clearly in love with me. Jealous ghug-desires would explain those nightkills.

Do I even want to know?

[Vecna]

Actually I wanna amend my earlier answer snowy.

If I had control of all votes going forward id definitely kill Chaqa today, just to put an end to that abomination in case it -is- a thing just so I couldnt be talked out of it later on.

Where's the real cop Vecna?

Dont pretend that a scenario where Jasnah/Damo/lfischl were cop is that much weirder than whats happening in this game already.

[ghug]

Given what we know now, why do we think scum killed damo?

Good question. I don't think it's because they thought he was a cop because Eden was the one who thought that, but he wouldn't have thought damo was the cop if Eden was scum (based on damo claiming Eden to be obvtown).

Eden and Chaqa could both be scum and Eden could have been pushing a fake narrative that damo was the cop, but then I don't see why they don't just try to find the actual cop. Maybe they really did think it was damo, but because of the Durga TV thing?

Damo isn't a super unusual D1 kill but also isn't a common doc target, so it could also just be avoiding a save. I think this is where I'm at because I really don't see how there's a non-Chaqa cop out there.

My thought here is that Tom wasn't reading and bozo wouldn't push to frame Chaqa based on a crumb like that, so either:
a) Chaqa is scum and they really thought damo was cop, which has been discussed at length
b) there's a crafty scum yet unidentified who pushed to cast doubt on Chaqa with a damo kill
c) the damo kill had nothing to do with the idea that he might be cop

[Chaqa]

The other remaining scum is GF. That’s my only thought. But I agree. Was a weird play.

That probably has to be true, yea. (Which is making me think more about jasnah and Jamie…) I don’t see where that specifically selects for a new partner though. It could, if you think Tom called that shot and the partner, not being at any personal risk, went along with it. But it just as easily fits the “bold mafia” hypothesis.

It’s why “only 1 scum left so nobody left in scum chat to talk to noob” is part of the thesis.

If there are 2 scum left, then the GF must have been a very likely scan of chaqa.

That last point is why I want to vote snowy.

[ghug]

Expand on this thought / I dont get it?

Flum's seen me naked and Durga's clearly in love with me. Jealous ghug-desires would explain those nightkills.

Do I even want to know?

If you'd been reading, you'd know already.

[Vecna]

Alright, I don't get the rdr votes here. Day 2-RDR votes bozo most of the day, ends on Tom and says he'll swap to Bozo if it's between Bozo and Worcej. Day 3 he mostly just... voted Tom, and said he thought Tom was scum. I don't understand. Why are we going for him here? Before any of the others?

Rdr always votes his weak teammembers off as scum. Sacrefises for the greater good.

Noone is certain that is what happened here. Were merely suspecting. His level of attention to clever detail isnt as high this game as what were used of him. His reasoning at most times is a bit more simplistic.

This is so lazy and untrue that I am starting to think you are just scum.

I buss when it improves the team chances either by distancing or by getting town cred. Tell me what I gained here if I was bussing Tom.
You should know that, we were scum together not long a go. I did buss you to win the game but I didn't buss Damo on D1 because I had still hope he could be saved. Tell me why I would have hard bussed Tom?

And I agre that I am not paying attention to minimal details as there isn't much to get from reading this ton of posts without any new info. I am not enjoying this game and don't mind being voted.

Anyway, you are not arguing in good faith, same as that game you were scum with Bozo.

##vote Vecna

How is my argument not in good faith?

How were Tom and Bozo not doomed?

EVERYONE could see something weird was going on with Tom.

[kgray]

Actually I wanna amend my earlier answer snowy.

If I had control of all votes going forward id definitely kill Chaqa today, just to put an end to that abomination in case it -is- a thing just so I couldnt be talked out of it later on.

Where's the real cop Vecna?

Dont pretend that a scenario where Jasnah/Damo/lfischl were cop is that much weirder than whats happening in this game already.

It is weirder, unless jasnah just decided to screw us.

If damo is the cop, who’s the JOAT?

If lfischl is the cop, why’d he let Chaqa get away with fake claiming and also suggest scum changed their RB because of who Chaqa said he’d scan?

[BunnyGo]

That probably has to be true, yea. (Which is making me think more about jasnah and Jamie…) I don’t see where that specifically selects for a new partner though. It could, if you think Tom called that shot and the partner, not being at any personal risk, went along with it. But it just as easily fits the “bold mafia” hypothesis.

It’s why “only 1 scum left so nobody left in scum chat to talk to noob” is part of the thesis.

If there are 2 scum left, then the GF must have been a very likely scan of chaqa.

That last point is why I want to vote snowy.

That’s a good point.

[kgray]

Given what we know now, why do we think scum killed damo?

Good question. I don't think it's because they thought he was a cop because Eden was the one who thought that, but he wouldn't have thought damo was the cop if Eden was scum (based on damo claiming Eden to be obvtown).

Eden and Chaqa could both be scum and Eden could have been pushing a fake narrative that damo was the cop, but then I don't see why they don't just try to find the actual cop. Maybe they really did think it was damo, but because of the Durga TV thing?

Damo isn't a super unusual D1 kill but also isn't a common doc target, so it could also just be avoiding a save. I think this is where I'm at because I really don't see how there's a non-Chaqa cop out there.

My thought here is that Tom wasn't reading and bozo wouldn't push to frame Chaqa based on a crumb like that, so either:
a) Chaqa is scum and they really thought damo was cop, which has been discussed at length
b) there's a crafty scum yet unidentified who pushed to cast doubt on Chaqa with a damo kill
c) the damo kill had nothing to do with the idea that he might be cop

Yeah so scum!Eden or C. I think it’s C but not totally convinced it’s not Eden.