M70 - THE BASKIN-ROBBINS CONSPIRACY [HIDDEN]

[Jamiet99uk]

Quick catch up. Super busy at work and not feeling too well so bear with me.

[rdrivera2005]

Personally I just think jasnah was an easy thing for people to talk about D1 because she wasn’t really around, so it was mostly about claiming and mechanics, not reads. It was a pretty safe topic because you can always hide behind what’s logically/mathematically the right thing to argue for. Bozo especially is the kind of person to get involved in that discussion regardless of jasnah’s alignment. It’s just easy to have an opinion on either way.

I also happen to think she was town.

I am starting to agree with Kgray more, great.

[Jamiet99uk]

I don't want to reach too much, but part of me wants to believe she's the Godfather just to bring some order and reason to her ostensibly insane Miller play. I still haven't figured out why on Earth she did that, and while the Godfather play is wild, it at least makes sense, which is better than the other explanations so far.

How does it make sense? It would be a terrible, terrible, like just really bad play. The Godfather's power is that they scan inno. The Miller scans guilty. The Godfather claiming Miller would be just about the stupidest thing the Godfather could do, surely? A scan would prove the Miller claim false and the logical conclusion for town to make, when that scan was revealed, is that the target is the Godfather. Super bad play.

If Jasnah was Mafia (which I think is more likely than not) then surely she was a Goon.

[Jamiet99uk]

If the godfather gets scanned inno, then that's basically gg.

Unless they have claimed Miller. That's why the GF theory for Jasnah doesn't make sense.

[Jamiet99uk]

What if damo was scum and they killed him as a decoy?

It's a great strategy and clearly has us totally bamboozled.

I recommend they do it again!

[Jamiet99uk]

Our favorite circus actor had an interesting progression on jasnah.

<snip>

bozo moves consistent with this premise of saving jasnah at EOD, voting for worcej until the Chaqa wagon overtakes worcej, then voting for Chaqa until the claim, then switching back to worcej, the primary alternative to jasnah, to end the day.

Based on this movement I think it's highly likely that jasnah is mafia and bozo was attempting to save jasnah day 1.

This is plausible.

Ghug also very visibly put a lot of effort into trying to save Jasnah:

It seems like we're at the point where there needs to be a concerted effort to save jasnah.

I'm open to voting for:
Chaqa
Damo
Doom
Jamie
lfischl
TFB

I have reservations about Durga, kgray, and Eden, but they can wait a day. Damo is almost in this group but I think he's scum.
I'm leaning slightly town on worcej, but could probably be convinced to kill him for memes.

I don't think jasnah is worth saving, if that's why you reacted to my switch in vote the way you did. Her behavior's made it clear that she's not going to be contributing at all this game, and there are still questions looming about the Miller situation. Given that (1) many people have hangups about the Miller situation and are only satisfied with moving on if we kill one of them, and (2) there is still an appreciable chance she is mafia fakeclaiming, I think she is a reasonable if uninspired day 1 kill. It would obviously be better to kill mafia in any case, and she still very easily could be mafia. But granting the premise that she's town, and also supposing that we miss today, surely she is the best miss available, right?

My vote is still available for a wagon that I think is more likely to hit mafia.

Move back to Chaqa then. The jasnah wagon isn't going anywhere. You don't need to push it.

I would probably rather daykill jasnah over Chaqa

What

Jasnah is the best of both worlds, due to the 2 for 1 play flipping her allows us to have with the Oracle.

What do you think the perspective of the people who disagree with you here is?

No one has presented an opposing use of the Oracle that gets a 2 for 1.

I assume they just think it's boring and would rather try for a flashy play in a no reveal game where we won't have any idea if we were right anyway.

See, you're not even considering the other perspective.

Most of us not voting for jasnah think that both jasnah and Bunny are town, snitch would in turn make your Oracle plan worthless.

Ghug also pushed the Chaqa wagon until Chaqa claimed, and then pushed Worcej who he had been shading earlier.

Given that you think Bozo's actions are consistent with Scum Bozo trying to save Scum Jasnah, do you also view Ghug's actions as consistent with Scum Ghug doing the same thing?

If not, what's different?

[Tom Bombadil]

I think PEs argument regarding jasnah has some merit.

I don’t know that a scum bozo would have dove in to defend a town jasnah there, when he could have lurked. I’m not completely sold on it, but I sorta think that PE is town because of this since he is trying to figure out the role of a dead person, which seems like something town would do and obviosuly scum would be faking since they know the role of everybody. And I don’t know that scum would think to fake this since it’s not a normal thing to fake in a normal game with flips.

I do think ghug needs more attention considering the defense of bozo - and the fact that he’s in the POE pool. For what it’s worth I would be very surprised if kgray and ghug were scum teammates - but I don’t know how useful that is in a no flip game.

snowy also seems to be an interesting case of a bozo defender in the POE pool, who voted me yesterday for apparently no reason which seems strange. He was a big wagon one of the days and died down, so could have had some defense from teammates.

[Jamiet99uk]

I sorta think that PE is town because of this since he is trying to figure out the role of a dead person, which seems like something town would do and obviosuly scum would be faking since they know the role of everybody.

I assume you mean "alignment" rather than "role" here?

[Tom Bombadil]

I sorta think that PE is town because of this since he is trying to figure out the role of a dead person, which seems like something town would do and obviosuly scum would be faking since they know the role of everybody.

I assume you mean "alignment" rather than "role" here?

Correct. They know what team jasnah is one, so I don’t know that scum were naturally fake trying to figure that out. I think scum would be more focused on setting up future kills than “solving” the alignment of someone dead. So that makes me think PE is town (or crafty scum)

[kgray]

I know y’all don’t believe in townslips but it’s quite hard for me to imagine Sabi not making the obvious realization that mafia know a Docsave instantly from the fact that they went pew pew on someone and that someone didn’t die, if she is mafia. It’s just not something you’d even think about

found it

moving on

Yup that was the second townslip I was mentioning. But yeah you are right that Doom has been free of townslips to my knowledge despite being relatively new. That being said absence of townslips is not proof of or even necessarily and indication of scumminess. Would be a shame to punish a player who is new and doesn't make newbie mistakes simply for being a new player.

Doom has also read through previous games so I wouldn’t expect her to be making “I don’t know what’s going on” type slips. She was familiar with the mechanics and the basic structure of the game before it started.

[kgray]

FTR, I like Doom, but she hasn't really done anything that is super townie yet.
If the doc save is successful we definitely have to kill her tomorrow.

Hmm...I was starting to think the same thing, but with Sabi instead of Doom.

I think Doom have been pretty towny. I think if no other info come around, next day should be between Sabi, lfishcl, Tom and me as we are the biggest question marks and not good choices to be around closer to the end. Maybe throw TFB in this pot too.

Do not kill lfischl

[kgray]

Hmm...I was starting to think the same thing, but with Sabi instead of Doom.

I think Doom have been pretty towny. I think if no other info come around, next day should be between Sabi, lfishcl, Tom and me as we are the biggest question marks and not good choices to be around closer to the end. Maybe throw TFB in this pot too.

Do not kill lfischl

And if you missed my reasoning, it’s because he casually placed an anchor vote for bozo making it 5-3-3 bozo-me-bona and then left for the last half hour of the day. Scum doesn’t put their teammate further in the lead like that when there’s two town counterwagons right behind.

[Vecna]

just a random thought; I wonder if the scumteam is hiding some dirty secret in plain sight, with how much general interest there suddenly is in oracle usage.

I couldnt really point to what I think that is or might be (theyre reasonably obvious atm anyway), or which people I feel are particularly scummy that are putting their opinion forward - but its just a general feeling of unease.

Probably just my imagination playing up, but eh.

[Chaqa]

not meme answer: I appreciate you augmenting what was already a good point with some context from past games. I know I at least was lacking it, and it really puts the difference in the claims into stark contrast.

Chaqa...?

I don’t see any significant difference in the crumbs. They’re both something easily linking to my role but not obvious if you don’t know.

I couldn’t exactly just say or spell “Resolute” without it being obvious

[BesharamSabi]

Ok, my turn to post day 1 stuff. Bozo's crumbs from day 1.

Bozo opens with a post about not killing day 1.

Eden immediately agrees that there's merit to consider no-killing in a no flip game, but we shouldn't commit.

Chaqa and rdr try to argue against it by building a straw man of saying "why not never kill?"

Bona calls bozo a bozo.

ghug engages with bozo saying he agrees it's interesting, but there are issues about actually winning and so he thinks we should kill.

damo immediately disagrees with bozo, makes his "PE is town" post, and votes chaqa.

bozo's 2nd post ignores all these responses and talks with rdr about when rdr last posted on page 1. This is probably NAI since bozo would love to dig in for historic minutiae like this.

bozo does then address Chaqa (and only Chaqa) that no-kill is only 4 day 1 to buy PRs time to hunt without giving scum clues to kill/block them.

TFB says the idea isn't good because the oracle might die and have no daykill for us to learn about.

Durga exclaims her love for her fiancee.

Vecna and bozo go back and forth about whether Vecna will set the tone or not.

kgray announces that bozo isn't on her day 1 no-kill list anymore.

-------------------------------------

Cutting here because bozo changes topics next.

Until now I don't see anything too heavy. The posts don't scream any obv scum or obv town to me. The one thing I do find interesting:

Sabi is in early, and starts talking and asking questions, but never once addresses bozo. They addresses TFB for calling bozo's idea dumb and says he wants to just kill people.

Now, if Sabi knows TFB and Bona and kgray from elsewhere, I guess it might make sense to ignore everyone but who they knows.

But I'm reconsidering my Sabi townlean based on the first few pages.

I'm friends with tfb, Bona and kgray on discord and we are all on a server together. Including durga and jasnah in this. That's how I know them. I even said they are the ones who got me to play mafia. There's no deep conspiracy here.

[Chaqa]

not meme answer: I appreciate you augmenting what was already a good point with some context from past games. I know I at least was lacking it, and it really puts the difference in the claims into stark contrast.

Chaqa...?

Also so like what you all believe worcej’s on the block with no crumbs claim but not mine that has crumbs and Flum verifying his aspect of it?

Double standard much.

[kgray]

not meme answer: I appreciate you augmenting what was already a good point with some context from past games. I know I at least was lacking it, and it really puts the difference in the claims into stark contrast.

Chaqa...?

I don’t see any significant difference in the crumbs. They’re both something easily linking to my role but not obvious if you don’t know.

I couldn’t exactly just say or spell “Resolute” without it being obvious

From my perspective the difference is how invested you were in making the crumb. The porky pig one was something you obviously thought about and meticulously planned. Your crumb here doesn’t show the same level of excitement about your role, imo

I’m not trying to hassle you, you don’t have to respond.

[BesharamSabi]

bozo then inserts himself into the miller claim discussion responding to ghug about pros and cons.

TFB follows bozo to this new conversation, responding to him again but agreeing this time.

bozo quotes Sabi's response calling TFB sus for wanting to kill people. bozo says to Sabi that killing is necessary, but just not Day 1. Sabi never responds.

Flum announces he's with bozo and votes for no-kill

Long break while Flum fucks around with the bot's sorting system.



LOOOOONG break.

then bozo is back asking kgray about whether she has played with Sabi and Bona elsewhere.

Then bozo asks Vecna *where* he played diplomacy 1,5 weeks ago.

Bona answers bozo that he, kgray, and Sabi play diplomacy together.

kgray responds next confirming they've played vF2F dip. Then sabi responds too.

snowy discusses no-kill some more and bozo engages.

----------------------------

Ok, it's very late and I need sleep. The only thing I'm seeing from this is a weird feeling that Sabi was uncomfortable engaging directly with bozo. They engages with almost everyone else, but only bozo when he specifically asks.

Maybe @Doom your reading also sees something?

It's not a conspiracy I was talking to people I actually knew. Do you want the list of the people I am friends with in this game? So you can see my interactions fit that?

[BunnyGo]

not meme answer: I appreciate you augmenting what was already a good point with some context from past games. I know I at least was lacking it, and it really puts the difference in the claims into stark contrast.

Chaqa...?

I don’t see any significant difference in the crumbs. They’re both something easily linking to my role but not obvious if you don’t know.

I couldn’t exactly just say or spell “Resolute” without it being obvious

C-O-P- and P-I-G are sooooooo hard to spell...

Goddamn man, I got MILLER out! I should have gone with "it's time" somewhere.

[BunnyGo]

bozo then inserts himself into the miller claim discussion responding to ghug about pros and cons.

TFB follows bozo to this new conversation, responding to him again but agreeing this time.

bozo quotes Sabi's response calling TFB sus for wanting to kill people. bozo says to Sabi that killing is necessary, but just not Day 1. Sabi never responds.

Flum announces he's with bozo and votes for no-kill

Long break while Flum fucks around with the bot's sorting system.



LOOOOONG break.

then bozo is back asking kgray about whether she has played with Sabi and Bona elsewhere.

Then bozo asks Vecna *where* he played diplomacy 1,5 weeks ago.

Bona answers bozo that he, kgray, and Sabi play diplomacy together.

kgray responds next confirming they've played vF2F dip. Then sabi responds too.

snowy discusses no-kill some more and bozo engages.

----------------------------

Ok, it's very late and I need sleep. The only thing I'm seeing from this is a weird feeling that Sabi was uncomfortable engaging directly with bozo. They engages with almost everyone else, but only bozo when he specifically asks.

Maybe @Doom your reading also sees something?

It's not a conspiracy I was talking to people I actually knew. Do you want the list of the people I am friends with in this game? So you can see my interactions fit that?

Welcome back. Sure!