wD Mafia Master Post

[brainbomb]

Also a complaint was filed against me for removing Jamie from the game without warning him or telling him he was being subbed. The kouncil created a side panel to discuss this at a time when two council members were alive and playing. The side panel determined I did not abuse my power by removing Jamie; but that moving forward the GM must inform a player they are being subbed or at the very least given a chance to change behavior. However a GM will always be within their rights to protect their game and to lean on kouncil advice in code of conduct situations.
I apologize to Jamie for hastily removing him, and not giving him an adequate time to adjust his behavior. That being said the incident was a clear violation of our code of conduct and our next responsibility as a kouncil will be to make it clearer what was inappropriate there and what types of in-game toxicity will be problematic.

[brainbomb]

Finally the last measure which we agreed upon was that dargorygel should be our kouncil chairman and will have a final say on most matters.

[worcej]

Bans of 1 game were proposed on Jamie, ghug, Snowy, Foodcoats and worcej were proposed and none carried

Can I ask from what game my inclusion in this list came from?

You can PM me if you'd rather not air it publicly.

We discussed whether or not your motivations for trying to eliminate Jamie were game related or were driven by personal dislike and antagonism. Ultimately it comes down to that we cant force people to like each other. Also as I am sure Jamie can attest he felt he was being bullied in the game and we are required to take any such accusation seriously and do our own detective work.

Okay thanks - FWIW, him and I talked outside of the game already and I explained to him I did legitimately think he was scum.

[Jamiet99uk]

Can I ask from what game my inclusion in this list came from?

You can PM me if you'd rather not air it publicly.

We discussed whether or not your motivations for trying to eliminate Jamie were game related or were driven by personal dislike and antagonism. Ultimately it comes down to that we cant force people to like each other. Also as I am sure Jamie can attest he felt he was being bullied in the game and we are required to take any such accusation seriously and do our own detective work.

Okay thanks - FWIW, him and I talked outside of the game already and I explained to him I did legitimately think he was scum.

I can confirm we did have this conversation. I'm happy to consider all these issues closed, and I am honestly sorry if I over-reacted at the time. Thanks Brainbomb; thanks Worcej; no hard feelings in any direction, I hope.

[brainbomb]

Definetely no hard feelings Jamie. hope all is well

[Kakarroto]

A few quick questions before I finalise my setup and submit for review:
- Do people like having 3P?
- Do I just PM the setup to all the kouncil members?

Regarding the 3P question, personally I like 3rd and 4th parties in these kind of games. I think there should be more non-solo 3rd party setups though.

I do have some ideas in this regard, though I'm currently too lazy to put anything together. But who knows, maybe I make a setup and submit it in the future.

[Jamiet99uk]

On the subject of Third Parties, the main drawback is that in practice it is usually really, really hard to win as Third Party. 3P wins are very uncommon. I would suggest no more than 30% of games should feature a third party. If anything my preference would be for multi-ball setups with more than two factions (but with each faction having more than a single member).

[BobMcBob]

I have made a decision regarding 3P that will be revealed along with the setup. Now we've got that out of the way, where do I submit the setup again?

[Chaqa]

I have made a decision regarding 3P that will be revealed along with the setup. Now we've got that out of the way, where do I submit the setup again?

Send the setup to a member of the Kouncil (preferably brain, myself, or Eden) on Discord or via PM, preferably as a Google Document (or a Word Doc, or a .txt file).

If you are a Discord user, we will create a channel in the WebDip Mafia discord and discuss the setup there. If not, we will do it via an alternative platform.

[Jamiet99uk]

I have made a decision regarding 3P that will be revealed along with the setup. Now we've got that out of the way, where do I submit the setup again?

I will PM you President Eden's fax number.

[ghug]

A final thought on the third party question: nearly every game has a third party. It would be nice for a few more that don't. The impending one doesn't count because the GM is a third party janitor.

[Fluminator]

The game of mafia is about an uninformed majority trying to find an informed majority. That's what makes the game fun.

For a third party to be good it needs to augment that part of the game, not detract from it. Very few third parties add to the game in a positive way.

A big tip for making a good third party is making it so one of mafia or town will always win regardless of what happens to the third party.
Another is it HAS to have a reason to act differently during the day phase. Town need to have something to look for to hunt it.
The alternative is to make it a town aligned 3rd party more adhesive to the mafia team so the mafia have reason to hunt for it at night.

[Chaqa]

The game of mafia is about an uninformed majority trying to find an informed majority. That's what makes the game fun.

For a third party to be good it needs to augment that part of the game, not detract from it. Very few third parties add to the game in a positive way.

A big tip for making a good third party is making it so one of mafia or town will always win regardless of what happens to the third party.
Another is it HAS to have a reason to act differently during the day phase. Town need to have something to look for to hunt it.
The alternative is to make it a town aligned 3rd party more adhesive to the mafia team so the mafia have reason to hunt for it at night.

I completely disagree. The 3P winning should mean that no one else does. 3P that can win with another team just make whichever team gets a lead in the early or midgame even stronger, due to the 3P now aligning their interests with the team that gives them a higher chance of winning.

I think a 3P that has a win condition that can flexibly help or hurt either team in the right circumstance while also doing their own thing is best.

[Fluminator]

I completely disagree. The 3P winning should mean that no one else does. 3P that can win with another team just make whichever team gets a lead in the early or midgame even stronger, due to the 3P now aligning their interests with the team that gives them a higher chance of winning.

I think a 3P that has a win condition that can flexibly help or hurt either team in the right circumstance while also doing their own thing is best.

If a 3P is biased towards winning with a certain faction, then the balance should account for that. If it can win with town, it should fill in a town PR spot. If it's more aligned with mafia, more VTs should be added.
If it can win with either, you generally want the 3P gimmick to have the game last as long as possible which means it will naturally boost the team currently losing.

There are also possibly good 3P roles that win alone but a lot of the most popular ones don't really accomplish that in my opinion.

[Chaqa]

I completely disagree. The 3P winning should mean that no one else does. 3P that can win with another team just make whichever team gets a lead in the early or midgame even stronger, due to the 3P now aligning their interests with the team that gives them a higher chance of winning.

I think a 3P that has a win condition that can flexibly help or hurt either team in the right circumstance while also doing their own thing is best.

If a 3P is biased towards winning with a certain faction, then the balance should account for that. If it can win with town, it should fill in a town PR spot. If it's more aligned with mafia, more VTs should be added.
If it can win with either, you generally want the 3P gimmick to have the game last as long as possible which means it will naturally boost the team currently losing.

There are also possibly good 3P roles that win alone but a lot of the most popular ones don't really accomplish that in my opinion.

If a 3P can win with town and is taking a town PR spot, why is it a 3P at all?

I suppose I view 3P as a challenge for people.

I will admit in a lot of games i've GM'd if I see a brand-new player roll 3P, I re-roll the entire setup because it's not fair.

[Fluminator]

I completely disagree. The 3P winning should mean that no one else does. 3P that can win with another team just make whichever team gets a lead in the early or midgame even stronger, due to the 3P now aligning their interests with the team that gives them a higher chance of winning.

I think a 3P that has a win condition that can flexibly help or hurt either team in the right circumstance while also doing their own thing is best.

If a 3P is biased towards winning with a certain faction, then the balance should account for that. If it can win with town, it should fill in a town PR spot. If it's more aligned with mafia, more VTs should be added.
If it can win with either, you generally want the 3P gimmick to have the game last as long as possible which means it will naturally boost the team currently losing.

There are also possibly good 3P roles that win alone but a lot of the most popular ones don't really accomplish that in my opinion.

If a 3P can win with town and is taking a town PR spot, why is it a 3P at all?

I suppose I view 3P as a challenge for people.

I will admit in a lot of games i've GM'd if I see a brand-new player roll 3P, I re-roll the entire setup because it's not fair.

Good to know in the future

[Jamiet99uk]

So, this implies that if Chaqa is GMing a setup which includes a 3P, we can rule out any first timers from being the 3P?

Hmm. Noted.

[Jamiet99uk]

Chaqajessop

[Chaqa]

So, this implies that if Chaqa is GMing a setup which includes a 3P, we can rule out any first timers from being the 3P?

Hmm. Noted.

Not always. Depends on the 3P.

[TheMadMonarch]

Can some send me the M70 GodQT link please?