M70 - THE BASKIN-ROBBINS CONSPIRACY [HIDDEN]

[worcej]

@worcej. You’re not dying tonight. Chill.

I'm 1000% chill Bunny.

I am just responding to bozo's posts.

Never argue. People may not be able to tell the difference.

Your goal here is to stop bleeding intel about your action tonight. It’s also to stop putting doubt in my mind. Just sit back and don’t bother.

I find this advice to be incredibly off-putting simply because you're telling me to let bozo's responses go uncontested and stop pointing at the flaws in his responses.

If I don't comment back at his take, I bet numerous people would frame this up as I gave up and therefor I am scum.

[Chaqa]

What

I second this wat

I'll explain it this way: The longer we wait to settle bozo, the lower the pool of NK options are for scum, which means they are more likely to hit the oracle when there isn't a 'good option' (using your own opinion) for them to target.

Scum will not NK me, it will auto-confirm bozo is scum. We may miskill on D3 if we don't kill bozo.

By these extensions, if you want to ensure that the Oracle is used on a good target, you should prioritize getting rid of bozo (100% scum) and then we get 'better targets' going forward.

Make sense?

Mostly, but if somehow Bozo is the real Doc, killing him would simplify their night stuff instead of having a constant WIFOM game w/ me and the doctor and the joat.

[Chaqa]

^ that is a good question. Wouldn't mind people answering that.

(I know I did that too but since most people are accepting i'm a town clear at this point I don't want to spoil a potential reason )

You’re clear when chaqa flips cop…

What's a flip?

[President Eden]

Earlier there were some references to M1014, which was the game where I fake claimed cop on D1 as town. In that game, there were 3 millers and a GF out of only 9 players, so the cop scan would only be accurate 50% of the time on D1 (and therefore useless on D1). Also, the millers revealed as mafia and did not know they were millers. So, at D1 EOD, I was about to be DKed over Yoyoyozo, and since I was town and I thought Yoyoyozo was a good scum suspect, I decided to claim cop because from my perspective Yoyoyozo had a non-zero chance of being mafia and was therefore a better DK than me. I was going to immediately retract after EOD, and if I got DKed for it D2, it would not be any worse for town than having been DKed D1. Yoyoyozo was online, so if he CCed me, I was going to retract to get DKed. I was risking revealing the cop unnecessarily, but I thought the cop was unlikely to become useful that game. However, what happened was Yoyoyozo was the cop, he did not see my claim in time to CC, he got DKed, so I never had the chance to retract, as my claim had immediately been disproven. To make things worse, I was a miller and was revealed as mafia. So, the town assumed I was mafia despite there being 3 millers in the game and despite my explanation as to why I fake claimed. This was a reasonable assumption to make because of the mistake I had made with the fake claim, but an incorrect assumption nevertheless. The town tried to solve the game with the assumption I was mafia, which resulted in an easy mafia win.

The reason I am bringing this up is that I see the potential for the same thing happening here, players are already trying to solve the game with the assumption that I am mafia, which however reasonable town players may think that assumption is, it is incorrect nevertheless. In M1014 I was responsible for the town loss, and I do not want my unavailability to be online for a poorly timed 16 hour period to be responsible for a town loss in this game.

I don't have much to say about this post other than it's a strong attempt to say 'Guys, stop assuming I am mafia' and to try to leverage that 'sorry I am not around much, don't hold that against me' (when we're not doing that anyways)

Well to be honest bozo’s absence and your righteous indignation are the only things actually tilting me one way or the other. So I don’t think his summary is really wrong as far as that goes.

To go even further—bozo is saying all the “correct” things if he actually is Doctor. He knows his absence and your strong impression probably lost him the CC war and the only real way to salvage it is to get us to kill both of you so he at least doesn’t let a mafia run uncontested. Of course he’s also got the same incentive as mafia faking…

The productive thing would be for y’all to prove that the other is mafia without defaulting to the Doc claim. Right now I’m inclined to believe you because your frustration at EOD2/SON2 seemed genuine

[snowy801]

Earlier there were some references to M1014, which was the game where I fake claimed cop on D1 as town. In that game, there were 3 millers and a GF out of only 9 players, so the cop scan would only be accurate 50% of the time on D1 (and therefore useless on D1). Also, the millers revealed as mafia and did not know they were millers. So, at D1 EOD, I was about to be DKed over Yoyoyozo, and since I was town and I thought Yoyoyozo was a good scum suspect, I decided to claim cop because from my perspective Yoyoyozo had a non-zero chance of being mafia and was therefore a better DK than me. I was going to immediately retract after EOD, and if I got DKed for it D2, it would not be any worse for town than having been DKed D1. Yoyoyozo was online, so if he CCed me, I was going to retract to get DKed. I was risking revealing the cop unnecessarily, but I thought the cop was unlikely to become useful that game. However, what happened was Yoyoyozo was the cop, he did not see my claim in time to CC, he got DKed, so I never had the chance to retract, as my claim had immediately been disproven. To make things worse, I was a miller and was revealed as mafia. So, the town assumed I was mafia despite there being 3 millers in the game and despite my explanation as to why I fake claimed. This was a reasonable assumption to make because of the mistake I had made with the fake claim, but an incorrect assumption nevertheless. The town tried to solve the game with the assumption I was mafia, which resulted in an easy mafia win.

The reason I am bringing this up is that I see the potential for the same thing happening here, players are already trying to solve the game with the assumption that I am mafia, which however reasonable town players may think that assumption is, it is incorrect nevertheless. In M1014 I was responsible for the town loss, and I do not want my unavailability to be online for a poorly timed 16 hour period to be responsible for a town loss in this game.

I don't have much to say about this post other than it's a strong attempt to say 'Guys, stop assuming I am mafia' and to try to leverage that 'sorry I am not around much, don't hold that against me' (when we're not doing that anyways)

Well to be honest bozo’s absence and your righteous indignation are the only things actually tilting me one way or the other. So I don’t think his summary is really wrong as far as that goes.

To go even further—bozo is saying all the “correct” things if he actually is Doctor. He knows his absence and your strong impression probably lost him the CC war and the only real way to salvage it is to get us to kill both of you so he at least doesn’t let a mafia run uncontested. Of course he’s also got the same incentive as mafia faking…

The productive thing would be for y’all to prove that the other is mafia without defaulting to the Doc claim. Right now I’m inclined to believe you because your frustration at EOD2/SON2 seemed genuine

A called save would be nice proof, if we're allowed to enter dream territory

[Fluminator]

I also think it would be productive if doc claimants spent more time looking at eod wagons and who was the scum there.
(Worcej did that a little so far, but bozo did none of that)

[BunnyGo]

Old man tells a story: episode 3, the third episode:

When I was the 3P and trying to negotiate with town and mafia to let me win, I didn’t do a great job. Well, maybe I did in that it worked. But I was at some people’s mercy to just let it happen (which I’ll take).

Where was I? Oh yeah. I had a separate chat with the mafia team. But they were allowed to ignore me, and use pseudonyms to hide their identity. They also had no reason to need to respond to me.

So what to do? I annoyed them. A lot. I was obnoxious, joking, taunting, begging, cajoling. What have you. And sure enough, one of them was checking, and eventually took the bait. He responded in character with a quote from the matrix. Figuring this wouldn’t give anything away. But Goldie forgot he was posting elsewhere too…lucky for him nobody believed me before I won and sailed away. But there’s lots of way to bleed information.

So be careful what you actually give away. And only say things that must be said. Like me!

Now…back to waiting around for death.

[worcej]

[snip]

The part about having to claim so that I did not become a "default clear" is inconsistent with what he did. worcej switched his vote to Tom after I claimed, so obviously his first choice was to avoid having to CC, knowing the mafia could NK me.

OH OH OH OH! I can use my link now! Just go click it in my snowy posts last night.

But in serious response: I moved to Tom to try to prevent having to CC because getting caught effectively terminates my ability to be a useful PR. My hope was enough people who were already towning me to push Tom up but that didn't happen and I wasn't going to let you get away with becoming a cleared scum.

Granted - there is value out of catching you, but I wanted to be the sly little doctor foiling mafia's plan. That's the fun thing to do as a PR, not just be in a CC battle.

[President Eden]

As far as the kills go, Chaqa has the right idea—whatever maximizes the chance of him getting a scan should be followed. We have time to sit on the bozo/worcej thing if it’ll successfully get us a scan.

Barring that, I highly suspect that deferring that decision will lead to town apathy. So unless leaving them alive gives us a chance to get a scan, we probably should just make a decision and move on.

[BunnyGo]

I'm 1000% chill Bunny.

I am just responding to bozo's posts.

Never argue. People may not be able to tell the difference.

Your goal here is to stop bleeding intel about your action tonight. It’s also to stop putting doubt in my mind. Just sit back and don’t bother.

I find this advice to be incredibly off-putting simply because you're telling me to let bozo's responses go uncontested and stop pointing at the flaws in his responses.

If I don't comment back at his take, I bet numerous people would frame this up as I gave up and therefor I am scum.

You think I can’t read his stuff for myself and think? How little do you think of your teammates? If it’s so little that we can’t read for ourselves, then you’ve lost whether you post or not.

[President Eden]

I also think it would be productive if doc claimants spent more time looking at eod wagons and who was the scum there.
(Worcej did that a little so far, but bozo did none of that)

Actually yea that’s better than them focusing on each other

[Chaqa]

I don't understand you there's tons of meaningful progress already, and will likely well be more

Tell me you already have the answers without telling me you already have the answers

Just because you're bad at this game doesn't mean everyone is. Stop spewing your insecurity umbilical cord juice all over me

A lot of people flipped to "hey this is fun" after EoD2, why haven't you?

Your guys' scum theater is thinly-veiled

[snowy801]

Tell me you already have the answers without telling me you already have the answers

Just because you're bad at this game doesn't mean everyone is. Stop spewing your insecurity umbilical cord juice all over me

A lot of people flipped to "hey this is fun" after EoD2, why haven't you?

Your guys' scum theater is thinly-veiled

Really do hate that Chaqa's opinion actually matters now

Hold on I've got a meme for you

[Fluminator]

Old man tells a story: episode 3, the third episode:

When I was the 3P and trying to negotiate with town and mafia to let me win, I didn’t do a great job. Well, maybe I did in that it worked. But I was at some people’s mercy to just let it happen (which I’ll take).

Where was I? Oh yeah. I had a separate chat with the mafia team. But they were allowed to ignore me, and use pseudonyms to hide their identity. They also had no reason to need to respond to me.

So what to do? I annoyed them. A lot. I was obnoxious, joking, taunting, begging, cajoling. What have you. And sure enough, one of them was checking, and eventually took the bait. He responded in character with a quote from the matrix. Figuring this wouldn’t give anything away. But Goldie forgot he was posting elsewhere too…lucky for him nobody believed me before I won and sailed away. But there’s lots of way to bleed information.

So be careful what you actually give away. And only say things that must be said. Like me!

Now…back to waiting around for death.

I remember being really confused why the town wasted a day letting you win when they could have just shot you and not lose a miskill.

[worcej]

Well to be honest bozo’s absence and your righteous indignation are the only things actually tilting me one way or the other. So I don’t think his summary is really wrong as far as that goes.

To go even further—bozo is saying all the “correct” things if he actually is Doctor. He knows his absence and your strong impression probably lost him the CC war and the only real way to salvage it is to get us to kill both of you so he at least doesn’t let a mafia run uncontested. Of course he’s also got the same incentive as mafia faking…

The productive thing would be for y’all to prove that the other is mafia without defaulting to the Doc claim. Right now I’m inclined to believe you because your frustration at EOD2/SON2 seemed genuine

The problem, as I pointed out, is bozo is trying to use absence as a defense for himself and my lack of absence as a detraction.

Doesn't it bother you at all that bozo is being exclusively "correct" right now? It's incredibly calculated and planned because it has to be to try to pull this off.

[snowy801]

Just because you're bad at this game doesn't mean everyone is. Stop spewing your insecurity umbilical cord juice all over me

A lot of people flipped to "hey this is fun" after EoD2, why haven't you?

Your guys' scum theater is thinly-veiled

Really do hate that Chaqa's opinion actually matters now

Hold on I've got a meme for you

https://i.imgflip.com/5ojo8g.jpg

[BunnyGo]

Old man tells a story: episode 3, the third episode:

When I was the 3P and trying to negotiate with town and mafia to let me win, I didn’t do a great job. Well, maybe I did in that it worked. But I was at some people’s mercy to just let it happen (which I’ll take).

Where was I? Oh yeah. I had a separate chat with the mafia team. But they were allowed to ignore me, and use pseudonyms to hide their identity. They also had no reason to need to respond to me.

So what to do? I annoyed them. A lot. I was obnoxious, joking, taunting, begging, cajoling. What have you. And sure enough, one of them was checking, and eventually took the bait. He responded in character with a quote from the matrix. Figuring this wouldn’t give anything away. But Goldie forgot he was posting elsewhere too…lucky for him nobody believed me before I won and sailed away. But there’s lots of way to bleed information.

So be careful what you actually give away. And only say things that must be said. Like me!

Now…back to waiting around for death.

I remember being really confused why the town wasted a day letting you win when they could have just shot you and not lose a miskill.

I’m charming

[snowy801]

I’m charming

I suppose that's one way to put it

[BunnyGo]

@flum, I think I may have also had the laser on me ship with me and some strange mechanics that gave the scum a double kill if used?

[President Eden]

Tell me you already have the answers without telling me you already have the answers

Just because you're bad at this game doesn't mean everyone is. Stop spewing your insecurity umbilical cord juice all over me

A lot of people flipped to "hey this is fun" after EoD2, why haven't you?

Your guys' scum theater is thinly-veiled

Don’t put his evil on me. He’s next after the false Doc claimant