M70 - THE BASKIN-ROBBINS CONSPIRACY [HIDDEN]

[bozotheclown]

Here is an example of an inaccurate assumption that could cost town the game:

I'm pumped we caught scum but also already starting to see kinda lazy analysis of it that's going to lead us astray. Hopefully that's just Eden.

I really wonder how well scum talked through the scenarios of not-bussing vs claiming and getting cc'd to give us info.

If they didnt talk this through properly, its quite likely (well, or just merely possible) they decided to not bus, and then got caught completely offguard by the insta-cc that made Bozo confscum.

I think "scum won't bus" is a significantly oversimplified take on how no-flip affects this. For one, this game is too chaotic to make plans like that; in an ideal world, I'd like to never bus as scum, and yet I end up having to do it most times I'm scum. It's really hard to play a perfectly clean game, and flips move that needle a little, but removing them doesn't suddenly make that cleanliness easy. Look at my kgray example from a bit ago. There's a reason she might have felt like she had to bus.

For another, bozo (and potentially Chaqa), fakeclaimed. We have to spend time sorting shit out, and that's valuable, but ultimately it means that we get something resembles a flip. There's a real strategy here for scum in letting yourself die in a way that makes you look like you were a miskilled VT, especially if none of your teammates were bussing you.

Voting bozo should make people look better, cause that's how this game works. It's not the silver bullet, though. The game is not that simple.

[bozotheclown]

Here is another example of an inaccurate assumption that could cost town the game:

Like, i get to wake up having missed all this great content, and be around stoned Ghug (not so bad) and Bozo doing his irrelevant wallposts

Please read my posts you assume are "irrelevant" before you contribute to a town loss.

[bozotheclown]

Here is worcej trying to claim my referring his post as occurring D2 instead N1 was a scum slip, even though I had already correct myself. worcej was fabricating a reason to scum read me because I was voting for him and he had become my largest counter wagon:

Still haven't caught up, but posting.on phone before driving out-

On worcej, that big tut-tutting post about almost killing Chaqa almost reads as town because of how weird and unauthentic it is. Just saying "Y'all almost killed cop, dumbasses!" Gets the point across, but with how big it was, it stuck in my head, over and above the... Are we at 10000 yet? God damn.

Not saying it's impossible, but because it read to me as weird, and also had that frustrated tone, I'd say it's either town Worcej who thinks Chaqa is cop, or scum worcej who knows Chaqa is town, and got frustrated with the town play. Really doubt you post that, even in a no flip game, if both are scum

Thank you for bringing that up:

Do you know what a job is? EOD is @ 3:00 PM for me. I have meetings where I cannot be around explicitly play exactly how you want. I was watching via my cell under the table so that my damn boss didn't get pissed at me

Honestly - I hope scum do us a favor and kill you tonight. You're grinding my gears with your play style right now.

Also - well done all you 'super smart scum hunting people' who wanted to play the game instead of let mechanics drive the game - you forced the cop to claim. Top-notch scum hunting by the likes of you incredibly 'skilled' players this time around. For all the negativity that gets talked about our ability to scum hunt, you all contribute to that bad opinion with your egotistical methodologies.

Can you 'skilled players' take a moment to reflect on your absolutely horrible play and check your egos at the door this next phase?

Rant over. Time to go finish work so that I can gtfh.

It is much more common for a player claiming cop to avoid the D1 DK to be scum than the real cop, in this case 4 times more likely based just on random chance, yet worcej's says "you forced the cop to claim" in his first D2 post (less than a minute into D2). I think this is a scum slip by worcej, who was anxious to point out that his no vote suggestion would have prevented the cop from having the claim, when a town reaction would have been to think that Chaqa was likely scum fake claiming.

Again, I posted this 2 minutes into N1, not D2.

This is a massive mistake to make.

Bozo's framing a case on me with the phases not even accurately accounted for.

He quotes my post, clearly showing a Friday timestamp, and labels it as D2. He doubles down on this multiple times.

This is one of the more obvious scumtells I've seen in awhile.

##vote bozo

[bozotheclown]

I am going to be unavailable for most of the day, I hope to be back by EOD.

How convenient.

kgray's done the work for me - but your weird insistence that because I 100% believed Chaqa was the cop is a sign of being scum is garbage.

In a short span of time (~less than an hour), Chaqa claimed, I was pissed and posted my rage at the collective group playing because we forced a PR claim, and then Chaqa pulled back the claim.

Here worcej was already trying to imply my unavailability was scum indicative, as soon as I posted that I would not be online for most of the day.

[BunnyGo]

you know, in theory, if that's right, this game is almost auto given Bunny's and worcej's claims

I think we need one successful docsave and we can literally kill all non-bozo voters except worcej and Bunny and win

I'm willing to go down with the ship I suppose. Tho curious about if a game has ever ended like that

Pretty sure scum teams have surrendered before, though I can't particularly recall any specific games.

Not if I'm on the team.

[BunnyGo]

fmpov, we kill bozo, rivera, doom, snowy, tom, ghug, sabi (not in this order, though bozo is obviously right first) and we win. kgray and vecna look good despite not voting bozo. i think even rightfully adding me to the list that's still auto or very close

so i guess this is the time to ask these questions:
- did mafia bus bozo?
- is vecna mafia?
- is kgray mafia?
if the answer to all these is "no," congrats, we've won the game

You just left my towncore.

Why do you think this game is easy?

[BunnyGo]

you know, in theory, if that's right, this game is almost auto given Bunny's and worcej's claims

I think we need one successful docsave and we can literally kill all non-bozo voters except worcej and Bunny and win

I don't know how true this is but it's too bad we can't hammer night

There is a game occurring in the game right now between scum and myself.

And JOAT

[bozotheclown]

GOD FUCKING DAMNIT YOU STUPID FUCKS!!!! I HATE EVERY LAST ONE OF YOU WHO NEVER LISTEN TO ME, NEVER PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT I AM DOING, AND THOSE THAT CANNOT SWALLOW YOUR FUCKING PRIDE FOR ONE SECOND TO NOT RISK FLIPPING AN IMPORTANT PR!

There is no retraction to be made - scum now know because you all are fucking stupid.

How many fucking clues do you all need?!?! I keep defending myself over and over, to the point I think scum are onto me. I bring up the counts of how many times you all DK me intentionally for you to pay attention and perhaps realize to NOT DAYKILL ME FOR ONCE!

What's even worse is it would've been totally awesome to just keep on going, because the likelihood of me being ever NK'ed was none, but because ya'll dipshits were so stacked on me for stupid reasons I had to fucking claim so that bozo couldn't become a default clear.

Snowy: DIPSHIT! YOUR FLASH WAGONING FUCKING CAUSES THIS SITUATION! Good job getting a PR outed with your high-level, ego-filled play.

Sabi: JFC how wrong you have been this entire time. I've been arguing and pushing for you to try harder, only for you to just jump on me for no reason!

Durga/Tom/Flum/TFB/ghug: WHERE THE FUCK WAS YOUR VOTES FROM?!?! You are either worthless town or OBV!scum now for this bullshit.

Best part is, none of you will even believe my HC against bozo, but at least now you can look at all the people who pushed me and didn't comment on bozo, because there are a few scum in the names listed above.

I will be either killed or RB'ed for perpetuity. GJ the dumb townies who wagoned me.

The part about having to claim so that I did not become a "default clear" is inconsistent with what he did. worcej switched his vote to Tom after I claimed, so obviously his first choice was to avoid having to CC, knowing the mafia could NK me.

[BunnyGo]

fmpov, we kill bozo, rivera, doom, snowy, tom, ghug, sabi (not in this order, though bozo is obviously right first) and we win. kgray and vecna look good despite not voting bozo. i think even rightfully adding me to the list that's still auto or very close

so i guess this is the time to ask these questions:
- did mafia bus bozo?
- is vecna mafia?
- is kgray mafia?
if the answer to all these is "no," congrats, we've won the game

Doom and I have been town deemed by everyone. I voted for tfb ffs.

Why are you throwing Doom in this mix?

[bozotheclown]

IMO Bozo is clearly scum.

Bona is basically town clear for pushing the wagon.

Can you explain your reason for believing this?

[bozotheclown]

I actually don't mind the no-kill and was mulling over how to tie it, but things moved really fast. Seemed like a situation where it would be helpful to get more information. But maybe that's a really dumb take. The resident galactic brains will probably swarm to fill me in soon.

There is no specific inherent reason to believe either Doctor claimant. Doctor is the most valuable role remaining, so bozo would fakeclaim it on principle if mafia. And if bozo's claim is true, worcej was plainly going to die, so of course he is also incentivized to fakeclaim, and he might as well counterclaim Doctor so that he can trade for the true Doctor. Usually you believe a counterclaimant, but the dynamic changes when the counterclaimant is slated to die absent a counterclaim.

If either of them have convincing crumbs, they should probably come forward with them now, because mafia obviously knows which claim is real; I don't see a meaningful tactical advantage to withholding that information. It's probably best for us not to discuss the matter until EON2, though, and I will withhold my own analysis until then.

As an aside, or maybe as a starting point for discussion - Chaqa, bozo, why on Earth did y'all claim so late when your wagons were manifestly obvious before the deadline? I guess whether this is good or bad depends on how you feel about chaos at EOD. (I wonder if Tom's opinion changed )



The chaos of this EOD reinforces in my mind that the talkers are basically all town. Chaos comes from uncertainty, and uncertainty stems here from a lack of obvious targets and a lack of flips to figure out our progress. There might be at most one bad guy in the movers and shakers. This game definitely feels to me like one where town is calling all of the shots, the narrative frame is extremely dynamic.

I was not around until EOD, I was hoping I would come back and find I was no longer the lead wagon.

[BunnyGo]

fmpov, we kill bozo, rivera, doom, snowy, tom, ghug, sabi (not in this order, though bozo is obviously right first) and we win. kgray and vecna look good despite not voting bozo. i think even rightfully adding me to the list that's still auto or very close

so i guess this is the time to ask these questions:
- did mafia bus bozo?
- is vecna mafia?
- is kgray mafia?
if the answer to all these is "no," congrats, we've won the game

Doom and I have been town deemed by everyone. I voted for tfb ffs.

This isn't a townclear by any stretch.

STOP POSTING MY THOUGHTS BEFORE ME!

How can I keep scumreading you....stop making it hard to tunnel. You're being coached now to do this, right?

[bozotheclown]

i hate this game

Ironically, Bona also came out looking pretty good to me.

Happy I changed my mind on you last minute. Good going Bona

hammer bozo

This is a good example of confirmation bias.

[BunnyGo]

I think Bozo is the true doc

I know...I think it's my turn to die tonight. They definitely leave Chaqa/worcej/bozo for the WIFOMI/lolz.

I'll leave my thoughts later. Thankfully, I know you'll all ignore and forget them as soon as I'm gone, se there's no pressure!

[bozotheclown]

Ironically, Bona also came out looking pretty good to me.

Happy I changed my mind on you last minute. Good going Bona

hammer bozo

oh for sure. We can rest pretty confident we got at least one mafia after D3 (I personally think exactly one, but I am sure some will think two with jasnah).

If you assuming I will be the D3 DK, why are you confident I am scum?

[bozotheclown]

how did we go from 9-3 bozo kgray to tied bozo-worcej

Well we can very safely assume bozo is scum, so it seems very much like he was saved. I guess we start there. Extra sus of snowy to imply that bozo was scum's preferred wagon.

(Vecna I may have answered my question)

Why do you think that is a safe assumption? I find it hard to believe you are not at all skeptical of worcej's fake claim.

[bozotheclown]

stop being a baby worcej

Bait seen and taken.

Fuck off Flum - I've put hours into trying to prevent this exact thing from happening. Do you have any idea how excited I was to role a PR again for it to once again be wasted by lazy players not even trying worth a damn?

It's fucking tiresome to try to smack you all over the head every time I am town for you to stop just wanting to kill me for 'sport'.

Well, rest assured that this EoD probably won us the game in one big swoop.

This was exactly what town needed. I understand its not fun if you get wagoned as a PR when youre putting in a lot of effort, and I agree it was a total nonsensical wagon, but there was probably a significant scum effort there to try and save Bozo.

If you are town, your overconfidence in an incorrect assumption may cost you the game.

[BunnyGo]

http://mafia.peterlund.se/m59/game_status.html

How did Bunny go from undisputed top poster to whatever shitposting he's been doing here

Shitposting? Top poster? I'm not sure I understand your question or what you're implying.

Isn't it easy to make a lot of posts if they're shit?

[bozotheclown]

I think he learned his lesson after that game.

One would hope...

Also, FWIW, I do not give any credit to anyone who switched from bozo to me once bozo claimed. Scum obviously had a plan to bait a PR CC out if they had the chance to die and doctor made the most sense.

For my part, I didn't totally believe bozo's claim in the moment and was hoping for a TFB wagon. When you claimed, my initial reaction was that you were actually scum, because a) you didn't claim in the final moments D1 (impressive in retrospect) and b) it's more likely we hit a PR and then scum with the wagons than that we'd hit scum and then the specific PR that scum claimed. Your emotion post-flip (and the fact that nobody but Eden seems to want to argue it) is pretty convincing, though.

I know worcej has faked that kind of reaction as scum before.

[BunnyGo]

Also I don't think we should daykill bozo tomorrow.
We want to give the oracle a useful target and bozo and all our current dead people wouldn't be the most useful. Seeing if they were PRs might be useful (and I guess jasnas could be mafia technically) But we really want to reveal a different scum if we can.

If oracle dies before they have a more useful target, they still have damo...