M70 - THE BASKIN-ROBBINS CONSPIRACY [HIDDEN]

[ghug]

I'm too hung over for this, I'll read later

Wow, way to avoid Jamie's question. Obvscum

Good enough for me. I'm convinced.

Are you on the Chaqa/kgray team or the Durga/worcej team, damo?

[Doom427]

Chaqa talk seems to be slowing down a bit, and think everything said is probably enough for night time, and we can open again once we hit day? Talk since then has been pretty empty of anything super enlightening.

I'd still really love the *Mafia kills one of their own* play, just cause this kinda game is the only time It could happen and it sounds hilarious, but sorta doubt that would happen day one. Maybe if whoever dies is always annoying in scum chat? Y'all who have ever been in one can make guesses on that I guess.

[Jamiet99uk]

Chaqa talk seems to be slowing down a bit, and think everything said is probably enough for night time, and we can open again once we hit day? Talk since then has been pretty empty of anything super enlightening.

I'd still really love the *Mafia kills one of their own* play, just cause this kinda game is the only time It could happen and it sounds hilarious, but sorta doubt that would happen day one. Maybe if whoever dies is always annoying in scum chat? Y'all who have ever been in one can make guesses on that I guess.

I have been in games where Mafia have bussed one of their own team very hard. I cannot recall being in a game where the Mafia collectively decided to eliminate a team mate because they were annoying in chat. I think that would be acting contrary to their win condition.

[worcej]

First analysis of a pair of players: Bona-Durga

They've impressively voted for a combined 11 people (Bona voted 4 and Durga 8, and both voted Chaq and different times).

As for their interactions. Despite talking around each other and in parallel with each other, they manage to address each other exactly once. (for any new players, or old players who don't know go to https://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/search and type in Bona* the star gets you anything starting with Bona and search for words Durg*, then swap).

Bona only mentions Durga when he's quoting someone else about her, or including her in a list of everyone.

He cheerfully asks kgray why she's including durga on her list of possible scum.

When ghug votes Durga, his response is "So scummy it can't be scum"

And that's basically it (he references her interactions with others a couple times and always in ways that subtly compliment her, but never really address her or have her as the main topic).

Swapping now Durga mentions Bona a total of 4 times all day including in quotes. First to say on page 6 that there are no actual game reasons to kill Bona. OF COURSE NOT...it was page 6!

Who is opposed to killing Bona?

Me. Why would we kill Bona for actual game reasons?

Then she told Bona he was being a bit much:

I couldn't find the post of ghug's but it was something like 'town bona is just weird and gets killed for it, scum bona imitates that in an over-the-top way but it works cause it's counterintuitive'

tbh you're feeling a little over the top

He wasn't addressing her, and she immediately makes a second post before anyone else to change the subject.

Then later Durga/snowy/kgray are talking about bozo.

He was suspicious about me/Sabi/bona knowing each other, which is pretty standard. And he suggested I was part of scum theater, which is also something town!bozo does basically every game I'm in.

Oh I remember that now. All of that felt really forced to me, and hyper focused on you, which is also weird.

And that's about it.

Conclusions? I'm just surprised that the two of them managed to both be fairly active, and basically the same times, and engage with lots of players--except each other.

Time for sleep (my date is complaining about the typing waking her).

Curious why the Bona-Durga connection was discussed so heavily here. I think both avoided several people.

[ghug]

Chaqa talk seems to be slowing down a bit, and think everything said is probably enough for night time, and we can open again once we hit day? Talk since then has been pretty empty of anything super enlightening.

I'd still really love the *Mafia kills one of their own* play, just cause this kinda game is the only time It could happen and it sounds hilarious, but sorta doubt that would happen day one. Maybe if whoever dies is always annoying in scum chat? Y'all who have ever been in one can make guesses on that I guess.

I have been in games where Mafia have bussed one of their own team very hard. I cannot recall being in a game where the Mafia collectively decided to eliminate a team mate because they were annoying in chat. I think that would be acting contrary to their win condition.

wjessop tried to roleblock me out of making a nightkill one time because he didn't like that I was bussing him.

[worcej]

I viewed jasnah as by far the best “miss” available if she were in fact town—there were a couple of “utility” reasons to kill her that didn’t depend on her alignment:
• resolving the Miller claims so people could move on, as several players locked into that issue and didn’t do much of anything else;
• ensuring we didn’t vote a potentially productive player out, as for whatever merits jasnah may have as an individual player, she played very counterproductively for town as a team.

None of that has anything to do with her alignment, so we looked for better shots and found a good one in Chaqa.

I think it's a slight mistake to consider the miller claim completely resolved. I don't think we have a consensus of truly believing Bunny yet.

[worcej]

We had votes on WorceJ, and Chaqa, and our dearly departed at EoD. After the cop claim happened, they moved over to Jasnah. Thought-if people hated the Jasnah wagon, why not go WorceJ? Counter thought-I don't have any idea who WorceJ is (sorry, Worce, there's 21 people in this thread, I'm sure you're cool). Just would like to see some response from people who swapped why they did.

I'll be interested to see if anyone responded to this request.

I believe 4 people on my wagon were 'fine' with it without any real context to back it up.

[worcej]

So that addresses anything that specifically calls me out or addresses me.

I want to take a look at Worcej because at a glance it seems like he was a leading wagon approaching EoD but did very little to defend himself.

I wasn't around when my wagon gained significant traction.

There also wasn't much to defend when I had 4 people on it - 3 of them were sheeping or providing no context for the vote.

[kgray]

There is one scum team.

What are you on about?

Did you edit 'kgary' to 'kgray'?

Ok that one actually made me laugh. It's so on brand for Flum that I just assumed it was true.

kgary is a huge step up from kdray, I’ll take it

[worcej]

Sorry worc if you’re town

What was this comment for, Chaqa?

I think he thought I was going to be killed off due to the claim.

[bozotheclown]

Only twice? I'd think every scum would always claim available PRs, as there is little downside to doing so once you're sure you're going down [which I guess is the kicker]

I'd like to add bozo claiming cop on M1018 to this pile of evidence

Townbozo

No? Bozo was scum, rdrivera was cop

I believe damo thought you were talking about M1014, in which I did claim cop as town to avoid the D1 DK. It worked out as bad as possible, as the real cop ended up getting DKed, but in my defense, there was an unusual cop modification that I thought made the cop almost a liability.

[worcej]

As a bayesian signal only: I had previous had a null on Durga and a scumlean on you. This moved her higher as a consequence and you as well.

My thoughts on hunting here: I need to find whole teams because finding individuals and then using their flips to update my priors on other reads doesn't work.

I don't understand the reasoning behind this first paragraph.

Everything is my best thoughts. Even someone standing up and shouting “fuck this game! I’m scum! Vote me out! I want out!” Isn’t a guarantee of their being on the scum team. And with no flips, very little will give me 100% certainty. Everything is a matter of degrees and opinions. And what I see changes those opinions but shouldn’t overwrite them entirely. This video (and many others by Grant) is worth watching in it’s entirety. He’s really good.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lG4VkPoG3ko

So, what should my opinion be of whether you and Durga are scum given my observation? It should increase based on what I previously thought.

Having just skimmed the last game I was in with Durga, she was scum and I was a crappy PR. Very similar to this. And she played very similarly. So I’m bumping her up a little more in my scum read. Will try to provide quotes and summary from bot later (still on mobile) but people can search the bot for old games in the same search location just change the game searching.

Durga hasn't done the super-obvious scum tell yet, but she's definitely playing with a disinterested style with all the sheeping she's doing.

[worcej]

We had votes on WorceJ, and Chaqa, and our dearly departed at EoD. After the cop claim happened, they moved over to Jasnah. Thought-if people hated the Jasnah wagon, why not go WorceJ? Counter thought-I don't have any idea who WorceJ is (sorry, Worce, there's 21 people in this thread, I'm sure you're cool). Just would like to see some response from people who swapped why they did.

I didn't like the jasnah wagon but I ended up voting her over worcej because I wasn't seeing a good case for scum!worcej, and I was getting increasingly suspicious of snowy, who'd presented the largest case on worcej (none of which was convincing to me), and I kind of felt like worcej was just becoming the default counter wagon. In particular, I was worried Durga was looking for a way to save Chaqa, but there were also other people that made me suspicious and I'll have to go back to find them.

God damn you're so town it hurts.

[worcej]

We had votes on WorceJ, and Chaqa, and our dearly departed at EoD. After the cop claim happened, they moved over to Jasnah. Thought-if people hated the Jasnah wagon, why not go WorceJ? Counter thought-I don't have any idea who WorceJ is (sorry, Worce, there's 21 people in this thread, I'm sure you're cool). Just would like to see some response from people who swapped why they did.

I didn't like the jasnah wagon but I ended up voting her over worcej because I wasn't seeing a good case for scum!worcej, and I was getting increasingly suspicious of snowy, who'd presented the largest case on worcej (none of which was convincing to me), and I kind of felt like worcej was just becoming the default counter wagon. In particular, I was worried Durga was looking for a way to save Chaqa, but there were also other people that made me suspicious and I'll have to go back to find them.

Ok, but if you thought jasnah was town too, why didn't you prefer to kill worcej for shits and giggles?

Because even though we butt heads, she actually likes to play to win versus for the lolz

[worcej]

The content of Chaqa's defences? Or do you mean Worcej?

I meant worcej

Worcej's defences seemed somewhat resonant of town!worcej, to be honest. Worcej does tend to get grumpy and start using the F-word when he feels he is being misunderstood or criticised unfairly. Problem is, that's not very alignment indicative because it's the sort of thing you could fake.

This is fucking bullshit.

[bozotheclown]

I have just realised something very important.

Unless I missed it, at no point during D1 did Bozotheclown attempt to carry out a survey.

My survey was shot to swiss which I'm still a little offended by, why would he attempt one right after.

It's just a thing he nearly always does.

Swiss?

I think you were among the approximately 50% of players who refused to participate in my D1 survey in M69, although you were mafia in that game.

[BunnyGo]

My survey was shot to swiss which I'm still a little offended by, why would he attempt one right after.

It's just a thing he nearly always does.

Swiss?

I think you were among the approximately 50% of players who refused to participate in my D1 survey in M69, although you were mafia in that game.

I’m amused that this is the post you quoted instead of the one where Jamie first raised the point. How did that happen?

[Doom427]

Chaqa talk seems to be slowing down a bit, and think everything said is probably enough for night time, and we can open again once we hit day? Talk since then has been pretty empty of anything super enlightening.

I'd still really love the *Mafia kills one of their own* play, just cause this kinda game is the only time It could happen and it sounds hilarious, but sorta doubt that would happen day one. Maybe if whoever dies is always annoying in scum chat? Y'all who have ever been in one can make guesses on that I guess.

I have been in games where Mafia have bussed one of their own team very hard. I cannot recall being in a game where the Mafia collectively decided to eliminate a team mate because they were annoying in chat. I think that would be acting contrary to their win condition.

Oh, I meant using their night kill on a teammate! It's not... Entirely impossible? Which means I want to see it, for my own curiosity

[Jamiet99uk]

I have been in games where Mafia have bussed one of their own team very hard. I cannot recall being in a game where the Mafia collectively decided to eliminate a team mate because they were annoying in chat. I think that would be acting contrary to their win condition.

wjessop tried to roleblock me out of making a nightkill one time because he didn't like that I was bussing him.

HAHA that is such a Wjessop thing to do. I'd kind of say I missed the guy if it wasn't for the fact that he turned out to be such a massive serial cheater.

[worcej]

All I’m saying is we have now had people say:

“Active Chaqa is scum Chaqa”
“Active Chaqa is town Chaqa”
“Lurking Chaqa is scum Chaqa”
“Lurking Chaqa is town Chaqa”

Over the course of the last… three months or so

Apparently nuance is also a tell.

And not spelling out every exact detail on my ghug reads

Or changing reads

Or trying to live

Gee it’s almost like no one actually knows how to read me

Like I’ve been saying for months and months

Eden knows this and is either deliberately going against everything he ever tells me about how I play mafia or he is scum

Again, if you're actually town, you spent the day trying to kill someone you thought was town and lying about why. You deserve to be scumread for that.

Except that isn’t why people were scum reading me. That isn’t what got 10 of y’all to throw cautioun to the wind and try to vote out a top poster for the jasnah wagon when there were EIGHT OTHER PEOPLE also on ti.

Why was I the target? If you all hated the jasnah wagon that much why not vote any of the others on it? I mean, worcej got votes too, fair. But the entire lead up to and resins for voting me were the epitome of everything I hate about how people here play

I honestly cannot fault you for being frustrated by this.

Every game, D1's final wagon is about 25% people who have a reason to vote it and 75% of people being 'fine' with it and providing no good sustenance for their vote.