M70 - THE BASKIN-ROBBINS CONSPIRACY [HIDDEN]

[Chaqa]

I guess I'll deal with both you and Chaqa at once here. Unless I have catastrophically misread things it is really irrelevant to the discussion what jasnah has and has not done wrt to retraction. Jasnah doesn't need to retract for it to be blatantly obvious that she's a VT given everything that has been said. You clearly care more about hard claims than anyone else does. There is literally no reason for scum!jasnah to fake claim mafia as the default immediate reaction is to kill both WHICH IS A TERRIBLE TRADE FOR MAFIA.

There are very obvious reasons to fake claim miller and we've literally rehashed them umpteen times for you. You can claim voting jasnah is good because she hasn't posted much and isn't a particularly useful town right now, but pretending that the odds are good she is scum is pretty silly. I put the odds of her being scum at <5% given what others have said and how they have tipped their hand. You're better than this type of argument Chaqa which makes me very confused.

I think you're missing that jasnah could be scum open claiming like this simply because she believed no one would think scum would do that. It's a move I could see a strong-willed player making.

a 4D chess play and then a disappearing act? That stretches credulity. Come on.

I've seen some shit.

[snowy801]

ngl snowy I was hoping for more

Why?

Cause you're paying attention and asking a lot of questions so it irritates me that I have no idea what you're thinking.

I try not to draw conclusions until near the end of day, lest I get attached to my answers. Ordinarily I'd have been aided by a reread but I gave up after 20 pages because there was 70 more to go. Which is not to say either my early instincts or final answers will be poorer in any meaningful sense, just that I haven't really come to much yet.

Also it looks like the day will close with Jasnah dying anyway, though I expect I'll convince myself to try to overturn that as the day ends. I'm just not sure on who yet.

What are your own thoughts?

[ghug]

##VOTE jasnah

Bro

[snowy801]

How is tfb more good than me???

What has TFB done, that he should be beneath you?

Like kgroy said, his answers have been too calculated and not genuine. Like a robot. He was also dodging questions and hasn't been that present. Just very not genuine vibes around that one.

Shrug
I feel like he's been around enough, and his posting style (which is different from playing style) reminds me of myself.

I'm particularly impressed by him sticking to his guns that there's no way either Jasnah or Bunny is scum, which is also my own thoughts drawn to an extreme while there's not really much support for his position.

Also, which posts in particular seem disingenuous to you?

[TheFlyingBoat]

How is tfb more good than me???

What has TFB done, that he should be beneath you?

Like kgroy said, his answers have been too calculated and not genuine. Like a robot. He was also dodging questions and hasn't been that present. Just very not genuine vibes around that one.

What questions have I dodged Sabi? I responded to kgray's question after she pointed it out to me. There's a major difference between not seeing a question and not responding to the question. And what you have said is a massive cherrypick of what she said. She herself said she didn't have a strong scum read on me. And claiming I am not present is pretty laughable given how active I have been on the actual substantive discussions that we've had. If you scroll back to the beginning hours I was one of the loudest voices for early miller calls and for day kills starting D1. I was engaged in other discussions about mechs early as well and also have been very very vocal in picking fights on the jasnah is VT/Bunny is Miller front.

[President Eden]

I would not kill Sabi, Bona, bozo, Bunny, Doom, snowy, Boat, Vecna, worcej, damo, or ghug today. I am begrudgingly coming around to kgray probably being town and just approaching the game differently from me, so I suppose she should be included in that list as well, though I can't say I wouldn't do it if a flashwagon appeared

Setting kgray aside, Chaqa and Durga are the only two people who have consistently been in the thread and in the forefront of some discussions that I reasonably think could be mafia, and I'm not really sure about either of them. I'm starting to get warier of people like Jamie, Flum, and lfischl who have been around in various parts and somewhat active, but haven't made a strong impression. Just seems like a lot of the big talkers are town.

Can I ask why Bozo and Boat are on that list? I can see reasons for all the others.

Boat had an early post trying to keep things on track that stuck with me. I've found his subsequent thought process pretty cogent and easy to follow. I don't buy some of his reasoning for suspecting worcej and Fluminator, but I think it's authentic, and it's worth pointing out that both of them reasonably qualify as being in that shaky middle ground of active but not at the forefront of discussions.

Bozo caught my attention early for having insightful in-the-moment comments about mechanical questions as they came up. I guess this one is more of a holdover as I think more about it, but he does ask good questions when he does post.

[ghug]

It seems like we're at the point where there needs to be a concerted effort to save jasnah.

I'm open to voting for:
Chaqa
Damo
Doom
Jamie
lfischl
TFB

I have reservations about Durga, kgray, and Eden, but they can wait a day. Damo is almost in this group but I think he's scum.
I'm leaning slightly town on worcej, but could probably be convinced to kill him for memes.

[kgray]

Why?

Cause you're paying attention and asking a lot of questions so it irritates me that I have no idea what you're thinking.

I try not to draw conclusions until near the end of day, lest I get attached to my answers. Ordinarily I'd have been aided by a reread but I gave up after 20 pages because there was 70 more to go. Which is not to say either my early instincts or final answers will be poorer in any meaningful sense, just that I haven't really come to much yet.

Also it looks like the day will close with Jasnah dying anyway, though I expect I'll convince myself to try to overturn that as the day ends. I'm just not sure on who yet.

What are your own thoughts?

I mean, as damo pointed out, I've been saying my thoughts as I have them. Lots of things are bugging me but it's mostly just uncertainty. I'm not clicking with anybody which feels strange and I don't like it, and it's causing me to suspect people I want to/normally townread.

[BesharamSabi]

What has TFB done, that he should be beneath you?

Like kgroy said, his answers have been too calculated and not genuine. Like a robot. He was also dodging questions and hasn't been that present. Just very not genuine vibes around that one.

Shrug
I feel like he's been around enough, and his posting style (which is different from playing style) reminds me of myself.

I'm particularly impressed by him sticking to his guns that there's no way either Jasnah or Bunny is scum, which is also my own thoughts drawn to an extreme while there's not really much support for his position.

Also, which posts in particular seem disingenuous to you?

I just feel like all of his answers just doesn't seem genuine. His carefully worded answers, him pushing Bona on kgroy wagon after she raised questions at him, etc. Just seems way too calculated for me.

[Chaqa]

It seems like we're at the point where there needs to be a concerted effort to save jasnah.

I'm open to voting for:
Chaqa
Damo
Doom
Jamie
lfischl
TFB

I have reservations about Durga, kgray, and Eden, but they can wait a day. Damo is almost in this group but I think he's scum.
I'm leaning slightly town on worcej, but could probably be convinced to kill him for memes.

This is an insane amount of pushback on an easy Day 1 kill that has almost no downside to town.

[kgray]

It seems like we're at the point where there needs to be a concerted effort to save jasnah.

I'm open to voting for:
Chaqa
Damo
Doom
Jamie
lfischl
TFB

I have reservations about Durga, kgray, and Eden, but they can wait a day. Damo is almost in this group but I think he's scum.
I'm leaning slightly town on worcej, but could probably be convinced to kill him for memes.

Why do you think damo is scum?

[BesharamSabi]

What has TFB done, that he should be beneath you?

Like kgroy said, his answers have been too calculated and not genuine. Like a robot. He was also dodging questions and hasn't been that present. Just very not genuine vibes around that one.

What questions have I dodged Sabi? I responded to kgray's question after she pointed it out to me. There's a major difference between not seeing a question and not responding to the question. And what you have said is a massive cherrypick of what she said. She herself said she didn't have a strong scum read on me. And claiming I am not present is pretty laughable given how active I have been on the actual substantive discussions that we've had. If you scroll back to the beginning hours I was one of the loudest voices for early miller calls and for day kills starting D1. I was engaged in other discussions about mechs early as well and also have been very very vocal in picking fights on the jasnah is VT/Bunny is Miller front.

I never said you were scum. I just said you're a lot more sus compared to me. That's all. Your posts just aren't giving genuine vibes my guy

[snowy801]

It seems like we're at the point where there needs to be a concerted effort to save jasnah.

I'm open to voting for:
Chaqa
Damo
Doom
Jamie
lfischl
TFB

I have reservations about Durga, kgray, and Eden, but they can wait a day. Damo is almost in this group but I think he's scum.
I'm leaning slightly town on worcej, but could probably be convinced to kill him for memes.

This is an insane amount of pushback on an easy Day 1 kill that has almost no downside to town.

Some of us like to win
Mind you, I've been faltering myself on account of the fact that this fucking Jasnah individual hasn't spoken in forever, which speaks to guilt

[TheFlyingBoat]

It seems like we're at the point where there needs to be a concerted effort to save jasnah.

I'm open to voting for:
Chaqa
Damo
Doom
Jamie
lfischl
TFB

I have reservations about Durga, kgray, and Eden, but they can wait a day. Damo is almost in this group but I think he's scum.
I'm leaning slightly town on worcej, but could probably be convinced to kill him for memes.

This is an insane amount of pushback on an easy Day 1 kill that has almost no downside to town.

Because it's an almost certain town kill. There are a lot better kills out there with higher percentage chances of succeeding.

[Jamiet99uk]

It seems like we're at the point where there needs to be a concerted effort to save jasnah.

Why does there need to be any such thing?

[Chaqa]

It seems like we're at the point where there needs to be a concerted effort to save jasnah.

I'm open to voting for:
Chaqa
Damo
Doom
Jamie
lfischl
TFB

I have reservations about Durga, kgray, and Eden, but they can wait a day. Damo is almost in this group but I think he's scum.
I'm leaning slightly town on worcej, but could probably be convinced to kill him for memes.

This is an insane amount of pushback on an easy Day 1 kill that has almost no downside to town.

Because it's an almost certain town kill. There are a lot better kills out there with higher percentage chances of succeeding.

Well, I disagree with the "almost certain town kill" bit, so I guess that's the disconnect.

We are going to waste a significant amount of time on every subsequent day arguing about jasnah and Bunny if we don't do something now about it.

It's the best time to take the shot on jasnah, and it's not entirely clear to many of us that jasnah is town, so I don't see why we shouldn't take the obvious option.

[snowy801]

More than anything, I hate that people can hide behind "obviously we vote out Jasnah" without really giving their thoughts on the game entire, which is why a valid counterwagon needs to be formed regardless of whether we vote her out.

[Jamiet99uk]

Jasnah has made 8 posts, the last of which was over 20 hours ago, and made a hard-claim which has been plausibly counter-claimed.

I don't see a strong reason to battle to keep Jasnah alive. There's significantly more than random chance that Jasnah is scum and, even if not, Jasnah is doing nothing to help town whatsoever.

[Doom427]

It seems like we're at the point where there needs to be a concerted effort to save jasnah.

I'm open to voting for:
Chaqa
Damo
Doom
Jamie
lfischl
TFB

I have reservations about Durga, kgray, and Eden, but they can wait a day. Damo is almost in this group but I think he's scum.
I'm leaning slightly town on worcej, but could probably be convinced to kill him for memes.

And all good things must come to an end. I guess the honeymoon of being read as null-town is over

Real reason I posted is to slightly update my priors, and for rereading past posts. At this point there's been enough discussion I don't think people will change their play based on it-if Jasneh is Mafia, it would take a wild amount of courage for other Mafia players to defend her as VT. Not impossible, cause galaxy brain plays happen, but a lot. I think if she is VT, that makes it a bit more likely the defenders are Mafia (I stand by the argument she's an easy bus later on in the game), and if she is Mafia, defenders are likely to be town.

[President Eden]

It seems like we're at the point where there needs to be a concerted effort to save jasnah.

I'm open to voting for:
Chaqa
Damo
Doom
Jamie
lfischl
TFB

I have reservations about Durga, kgray, and Eden, but they can wait a day. Damo is almost in this group but I think he's scum.
I'm leaning slightly town on worcej, but could probably be convinced to kill him for memes.

I don't think jasnah is worth saving, if that's why you reacted to my switch in vote the way you did. Her behavior's made it clear that she's not going to be contributing at all this game, and there are still questions looming about the Miller situation. Given that (1) many people have hangups about the Miller situation and are only satisfied with moving on if we kill one of them, and (2) there is still an appreciable chance she is mafia fakeclaiming, I think she is a reasonable if uninspired day 1 kill. It would obviously be better to kill mafia in any case, and she still very easily could be mafia. But granting the premise that she's town, and also supposing that we miss today, surely she is the best miss available, right?

My vote is still available for a wagon that I think is more likely to hit mafia.