M70 - THE BASKIN-ROBBINS CONSPIRACY [HIDDEN]

[worcej]

I want to know why theflyingboat decided to encourage bona starting my wagon when he's got scumreads and I'm not one of them. And I don't want to hear anything about it being because I'm 'strong scum' because he said that in response to an actual case bona was making on me and not to worcej and damo's earlier nonsense.

Have I ever had a case you actually liked?

[ghug]

a) I've answered this to Eden just above in detail - at first I was like what and then I was like maybe he's doing this bc he's under heat and then I was like meh that would be premature and dumb
AA) I'm not that stupid I would have lurked and formulated a very mid tier stance to take. If you're asking what I would do as scum. I'm a little confused by this question
B) they're both likely town

No, if the answer to the first question is that you thought he was scum, what led you to the conclusion that two people claimed Miller and neither was the Miller?

[snowy801]

##Vote Jasnah

Come on y'all, this is like, the most obvious thing in the world. I was joking about big Galaxy brain plays, but that? It's a super obvious scum one.

And anyone entertaining the idea that somehow both people who "hard claimed" miller are actually on the towns side? Theyre also hard core on my scum radar. Of course, there's so many that quite a few have to be town, but eh.

If Jasnah actually claimed because she wanted to not be day Killed, Mafia would just night kill. If Mafia didn't night kill, we would probably be suspicious and day kill. It's a play that gives us less information, and makes it easier for her to die. it gives negative value.

You said it's obvious, so lay it on me. What motivated scum Jasnah to fake claim miller?

[BesharamSabi]

That is what he said, yes. My comment was to point out that regardless of worcej's assessment of those people's scum skills, I wasn't feeling it as a list of potential kills.

But the thing about these players is that these are the players that you're more likely to be wrong about. Everyone can read sabi or doom but these players are the ones that might trip us up.

What do you mean you can read Sabi? What has Sabi posted that gives you any reads at all? Only thing that gave me even the slightest inkling of anything was when they jumped on the miller CC as proof bunny was scum even well after consensus was that jasnah was not the miller. Maybe they're scum, maybe they're a coasting town person, but they're certainly not easy to read because even the slight scum leans I have on them I doubt based on the fact they're just new to the forum game.

I just dunno what to say. I just think bunny was sus with how he reacted that is all.

I'm sorry for ever saying that in here.

[BesharamSabi]

Everyone can read Sabi or doom?

I thought this said "Can everyone read Sabi or doom" until I realized it was rhetoric but since I was halfway through my answer anyway

I was going to say Doom struck me as pretty towny in his few posts. They held curiosity and conviction shared with a common unwillingness to be burned from being wrong that seemed natural to me

Sabi I think have been oddly cautious and unwilling to make waves, and I'm keeping an eye out. Also I feel like she's been making situation inappropriate comments but I'd have to actually revisit whether that impression is based

I dunno what I'm doing anymore. Just ready to die in N1 at this point.

[snowy801]

@TFB kgray had a question for you I'd rather like to hear the answer to

viewtopic.php?p=257893#p257893

[BesharamSabi]

If yall want to vote for someone just vote for me. I dunno what I'm doing anymore and I clearly am doing this game worse and worse with every comment. I feel weird being here now.

[snowy801]

Everyone can read Sabi or doom?

I thought this said "Can everyone read Sabi or doom" until I realized it was rhetoric but since I was halfway through my answer anyway

I was going to say Doom struck me as pretty towny in his few posts. They held curiosity and conviction shared with a common unwillingness to be burned from being wrong that seemed natural to me

Sabi I think have been oddly cautious and unwilling to make waves, and I'm keeping an eye out. Also I feel like she's been making situation inappropriate comments but I'd have to actually revisit whether that impression is based

I dunno what I'm doing anymore. Just ready to die in N1 at this point.

Just keep doing what you're doing, you're fine. Not everyone can obvtown like there's no tomorrow, which is fine

[Bonatogether]

I ask because all your questions have a very accusatory edge to them, but don't seem to be driving at a specific conclusion. I figured you would have more certain suspects than this, and I'm a bit lost as to what you're trying to accomplish right now.

Okay. Well I don't. And I'm mostly trying to accomplish making a decision as to whether or not all your flip-flopping and forcing a scumread on Durga makes sense from town. And, also whether or not ghug is maliciously feeding into that read.

I've neither flip-flopped nor forced a read on anybody this game.

##VOTE kgray

gettem eden

[Bonatogether]

##Vote Jasnah

Come on y'all, this is like, the most obvious thing in the world. I was joking about big Galaxy brain plays, but that? It's a super obvious scum one.

And anyone entertaining the idea that somehow both people who "hard claimed" miller are actually on the towns side? Theyre also hard core on my scum radar. Of course, there's so many that quite a few have to be town, but eh.

If Jasnah actually claimed because she wanted to not be day Killed, Mafia would just night kill. If Mafia didn't night kill, we would probably be suspicious and day kill. It's a play that gives us less information, and makes it easier for her to die. it gives negative value.

jasnah has a history of trolling in not-dissimilar ways so it's not impossible both are town. It's hard to tell.

[President Eden]

I think the way you kept changing your story when I asked you about Durga was flip-floppy and forced. Why'd you stop scumreading her?

I didn't change my story. You kept oversimplifying it and forcing me to continue explaining it in different ways that would hopefully communicate the point in a manner impervious to bad faith questions. Judging from your most recent comment I still have not succeeded.

I will reread your comments, but I do not believe I have oversimplified them. It seems to me like you've made a lot of arguments that all point to Durga being scum in basically any scenario.

So my last question was certainly not in bad faith; I don't understand what's making you come around on her.

I made two alternative arguments. They are exclusive and point to different characteristics of mafia behavior. They do point to Durga being mafia in either scenario, though both are, as I have repeatedly emphasized, not 100% lockdown logical cases.

One, the one that I considered most likely, involves her believing Bunny to be town. It stems from the fact that she thought jasnah's claim was obviously fake but also coming from town, and did so more or less immediately as the controversy erupted. If she also thought BG was town then she essentially nearly instantly knew that both claimants were town, which was not at all clear from the situation at the time. It's not something that may be readily apparent in hindsight, and as far as I know you weren't there when everything happened, so that might not seem very odd, but it was a very rapid conclusion to reach if one didn't already know the alignments of both people involved.

Two, the one I considered less likely, is that she purported to believe Bunny was mafia. That would involve him fakeclaiming Miller and both claims being fake. It struck me that this is the type of conclusion mafia might reach when they started with contrived positions and have to adjust in the moment to new information.

As it happens, she did believe Bunny was mafia, but initially thought it was a mafia gambit, and started to come around upon realizing that this doesn't make sense. If I'm honest, I'm not 100% convinced at all, but it strikes me that somebody going into the controversy believing BG to be mafia would take a bit longer than maybe they "should" to see that his claim is almost certainly genuine.

[Doom427]

You said it's obvious, so lay it on me. What motivated scum Jasnah to fake claim miller?

I mean, I said obvious play, not good play, but- We're in a game with no reveals. So, with the false claim, if we kill one we do have a chance of needing to kill the other, just to be sure. If one of them saw those breadcrumbs, maybe they figured they could pull off the kill. It also changes discussion-I'd want to reread what we were discussing back then to see if that's valid or not.

And, biggest of all, it gives a great chance for other Mafia to take a big public position. It leads to this big discussion where Mafia can talk about someone else's plays and what they mean, without talking about their own plays. Hello it's not even bad to push this "Jasnah is VT" Charade. If we kill, we don't even know for sure if they were right!

And it wasn't even as risky a play it could have been. Somehow we Galaxy brained our way to thinking Jasnah is VT!
Is that reasons for the play?

[Bonatogether]

That is what he said, yes. My comment was to point out that regardless of worcej's assessment of those people's scum skills, I wasn't feeling it as a list of potential kills.

But the thing about these players is that these are the players that you're more likely to be wrong about. Everyone can read sabi or doom but these players are the ones that might trip us up.

Okay? I disagree that this is a good strategy. I don't know what that has to do with you thinking I'm scum.

You're obfuscating from the fact that killing the players we're likely to mess up in the absence of any consensus of any other obvious dks is direct value added in this situation.

[Bonatogether]

That is what he said, yes. My comment was to point out that regardless of worcej's assessment of those people's scum skills, I wasn't feeling it as a list of potential kills.

But the thing about these players is that these are the players that you're more likely to be wrong about. Everyone can read sabi or doom but these players are the ones that might trip us up.

What do you mean

it's pretty clear that both doom and you are town, to me, and if you're not you'll probably show it reasonably soon, imo, whereas experienced players are much more likely to throw curveballs and sneak under the radar.

[President Eden]

But the thing about these players is that these are the players that you're more likely to be wrong about. Everyone can read sabi or doom but these players are the ones that might trip us up.

What do you mean you can read Sabi? What has Sabi posted that gives you any reads at all? Only thing that gave me even the slightest inkling of anything was when they jumped on the miller CC as proof bunny was scum even well after consensus was that jasnah was not the miller. Maybe they're scum, maybe they're a coasting town person, but they're certainly not easy to read because even the slight scum leans I have on them I doubt based on the fact they're just new to the forum game.

I just dunno what to say. I just think bunny was sus with how he reacted that is all.

I'm sorry for ever saying that in here.

You're doing fine Sabi. Let's walk through it a bit. Do you remember what Bunny was reacting to that made you suspicious of him? If so, what was it about how he reacted that caught your attention?

[Bonatogether]

That is what he said, yes. My comment was to point out that regardless of worcej's assessment of those people's scum skills, I wasn't feeling it as a list of potential kills.

But the thing about these players is that these are the players that you're more likely to be wrong about. Everyone can read sabi or doom but these players are the ones that might trip us up.

What do you mean you can read Sabi? What has Sabi posted that gives you any reads at all? Only thing that gave me even the slightest inkling of anything was when they jumped on the miller CC as proof bunny was scum even well after consensus was that jasnah was not the miller. Maybe they're scum, maybe they're a coasting town person, but they're certainly not easy to read because even the slight scum leans I have on them I doubt based on the fact they're just new to the forum game.

There's not a direct read or much that I can point to, but the posts that Sabi has been making is much more likely to come from a new town point of view and logical progression. Sabi has a personality that feels the same as in other situations, so that means they're not trying to hide anything or throw dust up.

[Doom427]

(Also, if this is VT play, I think it's a great one. Townies job is to make the game better for other townies, and I'm really enjoying the game now!)

[Bonatogether]

Everyone can read Sabi or doom? I certainly can't. Sabi at least I expected more from than what they've delivered.

I'm also a little sad everyone can read me
(And a little suspicious, only Scum should REALLY know for sure I'm town)

If I was playing scum, I don't think my game would be that different? Maybe people saw how I play diplomacy and think I'm just bad at these games and can't lie

playing scum is a different experience. there's more information and less idea of what to do

[Chaqa]

The only reason I’m not pushing to 50/50 jasnah and Bunny is the Oracle.

Failing those two… maybe no kill? Xd

##Vote worcej

[Bonatogether]

Everyone can read Sabi or doom?

I thought this said "Can everyone read Sabi or doom" until I realized it was rhetoric but since I was halfway through my answer anyway

I was going to say Doom struck me as pretty towny in his few posts. They held curiosity and conviction shared with a common unwillingness to be burned from being wrong that seemed natural to me

Sabi I think have been oddly cautious and unwilling to make waves, and I'm keeping an eye out. Also I feel like she's been making situation inappropriate comments but I'd have to actually revisit whether that impression is based

I dunno what I'm doing anymore. Just ready to die in N1 at this point.

You're doing fine? d1 always has a fair proportion of shitposts and memes and such and usually doesn't mean a lot anyways.