M70 - THE BASKIN-ROBBINS CONSPIRACY [HIDDEN]

[kgray]

a decent amount of small things

a) comments about me and her being buddies are a thing she did as scum recently

b) viewtopic.php?p=257194#p257194 (if i really was celaph i'd do the fancy link business) is something that like, I've never heard of? It doesn't jibe with what I know of Chaqa (and Eden's take agrees with me), it plays off what Durga said in a way to shade Chaqa but then claims that she's on his side (which in other comments she is), so I scum this interaction

c) Weird disagreement with worcej's post of good scum players, which is broadly right (and has me on it so that's good). I have some slight quibbles with it, like I would put rdr on it, but kgray's previous list of people she isn't willing to dk today does not have sufficient overlap for there to be only 1.5 players on worcej's list.

d) viewtopic.php?p=257333#p257333

a) I don't remember ever buddying you as scum. I remember trying my hardest to get town to ignore your constant insistence that celaph and I were scumbuddies.

b) You misinterpreted that entire situation, I think. I don't think scum!Chaqa panics at that amount of pressure at that time, and I also think Eden agreed with me.

c) My D1 no-kill list is not specific to this game (and tbh isn't really a thing, but I generally start there). My response to worcej's post was specific to this game.

d) I have no idea what you're implying with this post.

a) I said I remember you doing something like buddying me (edit: I found it - it was the bona is sharp business)

b) I misread this post

c) What are your reasons, then?

d) that I don't like it and find it scum-indicative

My reasons for not wanting to kill the people on worcej's list? I mostly just didn't see anything I thought was scummy from those people besides Bunny, and partly ghug.

[kgray]

Observations so far:

Sabi as vocal newb very likely town
PE obvtown
Durga TV
Jamie absent
Worcej strangely makes his list announcement redundant by it's very announcement (could be a dk candidate)
Flum scum or bad
Doom ?
Chaqa tad off
Tfb suspicious
Kgray likely town

Rest: playing to meta

Damo, why were you voting kgray if you read her as town?

I'm scary

[kgray]

To be more precise, Durga's post indicated that she immediately believed that jasnah was both town and fakeclaiming. That obviously means BG is the genuine Miller and is also town. Reaching a conclusion that one is genuine and one is fakeclaiming obviously doesn't indicate anything (one of them has to be, and there's no inherent reason why quickly deciding that jasnah was the fakeclaimer is suspicious). Reaching the conclusion that both of them are town, that quickly, may indicate foreknowledge that both were town, which Durga would have if she were mafia.

It's not a 100% logical proof and of course you're free to disagree with my suspicion that she reached that conclusion due to foreknowledge from being mafia. But it isn't that she knew which Miller claim was fake, but rather that she believed both were town.

I must have missed where Durga reacted to Bunny's Miller CC with a townread of him?

I don't think she did, at least immediately.. She thought jasnah was fakeclaiming town and bunny was scum, which makes minimal sense, and then she attacked everyone who called her out on it instead of explaining her position (which, sadly, is NAI).

Okay but that's not what Eden is saying. Eden said Durga believing jasnah was fakeclaiming made Durga scummy. I disagreed. Eden then said Durga thought jasnah and Bunny were both town and *that's* what makes Durga scummy.

[ghug]

I must have missed where Durga reacted to Bunny's Miller CC with a townread of him?

I don't think she did, at least immediately.. She thought jasnah was fakeclaiming town and bunny was scum, which makes minimal sense, and then she attacked everyone who called her out on it instead of explaining her position (which, sadly, is NAI).

Way to misrepresent me again. I'm not impressed. I very much explained my thoughts and to pretend I didn't is really shady.

There's the attacking your accuser thing again.

Answer me these:
a) What was your immediate read of Bunny after he claimed?
aa) If scum, what led you to the conclusion that two people claimed Miller and neither was the Miller.
b) Have your reads of Bunny and/or jasnah changed since your initial reactions?

It's specifically aa) that I think you haven't explained. You did explain why you thought jasnah was fakeclaiming.

[Chaqa]

I'm like halfway caught up but posting this for my thoughts at the moment.

We vote out jasnah and then Bunny. Anyone on other wagons is being egotistical and we can hunt down anyone being weird during all of this after those two are handled.

[ghug]

Sorry why would scum want to use up two daykills to kill off one of their own? In what world is that a reasonable tradeoff?

a) I think she's town at this point
b) "this is too stupid for scum to do" isn't a good argument when it's also too stupid for town to do. A bad play was made.

Town and scum don't have the same motives and therefore don't have the same consequences. I don't think scum do the same bad plays town do.

I think this particular one doesn't make sense as either alignment.

[ghug]

Where did I scum read him after, I've even stated that I don't think either is the kill. If you're saying my reads aren't naturally evolving when I've moved off bunny already you're also deliberately lying or deceiving yourself so you can convince yourself I'm scum

I'm not even gonna touch that first part

You aren't engaging with what I'm actually saying. If I'm wrong and you're town then you are choosing one of the worst possible strategies to help me see it.

Idk if this helps but when I read jasnahs claim I dismissed it in my head as a joke since that's all she'd done so far and someone said she once caught five scum in a row. I wasn't sure what to make of bunny's claim but after thinking about it I feel like he wouldn't fake claim it as scum so early so I took my vote off him.

Ok well she definitely never caught five scum in a row.

[President Eden]

Where did I scum read him after, I've even stated that I don't think either is the kill. If you're saying my reads aren't naturally evolving when I've moved off bunny already you're also deliberately lying or deceiving yourself so you can convince yourself I'm scum

I'm not even gonna touch that first part

You aren't engaging with what I'm actually saying. If I'm wrong and you're town then you are choosing one of the worst possible strategies to help me see it.

Idk if this helps but when I read jasnahs claim I dismissed it in my head as a joke since that's all she'd done so far and someone said she once caught five scum in a row. I wasn't sure what to make of bunny's claim but after thinking about it I feel like he wouldn't fake claim it as scum so early so I took my vote off him.

It does, thanks. What made you initially unsure about Bunny's claim?

I must have missed where Durga reacted to Bunny's Miller CC with a townread of him?

I don't think she did, at least immediately.. She thought jasnah was fakeclaiming town and bunny was scum, which makes minimal sense, and then she attacked everyone who called her out on it instead of explaining her position (which, sadly, is NAI).

Okay but that's not what Eden is saying. Eden said Durga believing jasnah was fakeclaiming made Durga scummy. I disagreed. Eden then said Durga thought jasnah and Bunny were both town and *that's* what makes Durga scummy.

You are oversimplifying when I think I've pretty clearly explained my thought process. It isn't about the position itself, but the immediacy and the certainty of it. More troubling, I think you know this and that this is an intentional misrepresentation rather than a genuine misunderstanding.

[kgray]

To be more precise, Durga's post indicated that she immediately believed that jasnah was both town and fakeclaiming. That obviously means BG is the genuine Miller and is also town. Reaching a conclusion that one is genuine and one is fakeclaiming obviously doesn't indicate anything (one of them has to be, and there's no inherent reason why quickly deciding that jasnah was the fakeclaimer is suspicious). Reaching the conclusion that both of them are town, that quickly, may indicate foreknowledge that both were town, which Durga would have if she were mafia.

It's not a 100% logical proof and of course you're free to disagree with my suspicion that she reached that conclusion due to foreknowledge from being mafia. But it isn't that she knew which Miller claim was fake, but rather that she believed both were town.

I must have missed where Durga reacted to Bunny's Miller CC with a townread of him?

I suppose she never said she did, but she also never indicated that she believed both claims were fake, and in absence of any indication one way or the other, I defaulted to what I would consider the obvious logical conclusion from believing one of two contradictory role claimants is fake, which is that the other is true.

If she still scumread BG at that point then that is a separate issue - a lack of naturally evolving reads incongruent with the amount of attention she was paying to the game. Either way there's reason to think she's mafia from it.

So you think she kept her vote on the person she thinks is the real Miller? She didn't move it until you called her out. If anything, her caving to pressure to move her vote is probably a better reason to scumread her.

And mafia don't just not "evolve" their reads when town claims a role. This is silly.

[President Eden]

I'm like halfway caught up but posting this for my thoughts at the moment.

We vote out jasnah and then Bunny. Anyone on other wagons is being egotistical and we can hunt down anyone being weird during all of this after those two are handled.

The presence of an Oracle, alone, is enough to make this plainly incorrect. There are many other good reasons for not doing this that don't boil down to ego.

[ghug]

I must have missed where Durga reacted to Bunny's Miller CC with a townread of him?

I don't think she did, at least immediately.. She thought jasnah was fakeclaiming town and bunny was scum, which makes minimal sense, and then she attacked everyone who called her out on it instead of explaining her position (which, sadly, is NAI).

Okay but that's not what Eden is saying. Eden said Durga believing jasnah was fakeclaiming made Durga scummy. I disagreed. Eden then said Durga thought jasnah and Bunny were both town and *that's* what makes Durga scummy.

Well, I can't speak for Eden. I still kinda think he's scum. I did find Durga's initial reaction weird in the moment, but I'm coming around on its legitimacy.

[ghug]

I'm like halfway caught up but posting this for my thoughts at the moment.

We vote out jasnah and then Bunny. Anyone on other wagons is being egotistical and we can hunt down anyone being weird during all of this after those two are handled.

Chaqa, when you catch up, I'd like to know where you were when you wrote this (in the thread, not in the fake life you've concocted for webDip).

[Chaqa]

I'm like halfway caught up but posting this for my thoughts at the moment.

We vote out jasnah and then Bunny. Anyone on other wagons is being egotistical and we can hunt down anyone being weird during all of this after those two are handled.

The presence of an Oracle, alone, is enough to make this plainly incorrect. There are many other good reasons for not doing this that don't boil down to ego.

Oracle can't be active til Night.

Actually that makes sense. Oracle keeps locked onto Jasnah and if the Oracle dies we know.

Okay, I'm convinced somewhat I suppose, as I can't really follow any reason for scum to CC or make the fake claim here.

[Chaqa]

I'm like halfway caught up but posting this for my thoughts at the moment.

We vote out jasnah and then Bunny. Anyone on other wagons is being egotistical and we can hunt down anyone being weird during all of this after those two are handled.

Chaqa, when you catch up, I'd like to know where you were when you wrote this (in the thread, not in the fake life you've concocted for webDip).

I posted this just before durga posted that she (jasnah I think) was going to bed, wherever that was

[Chaqa]

All caught up now. Gonna go relax for a bit and then probably catch up on another 20 pages.

[kgray]

a) I think she's town at this point
b) "this is too stupid for scum to do" isn't a good argument when it's also too stupid for town to do. A bad play was made.

Town and scum don't have the same motives and therefore don't have the same consequences. I don't think scum do the same bad plays town do.

I think this particular one doesn't make sense as either alignment.

Yeah but that's not the same as saying they're equally likely to make the same mistake. Scum try to hide. Jasnah could easily get away with her boisterous egomaniac town savior schtick if she's scum, she doesn't need to draw in a 50/50. Town do whatever random shit they feel like. Honestly she was probably just looking to take the NK and move on with her life.

[snowy801]

##vote ghug

Can someone link the mafia bot again? I must have lost it the last time I cleared history to purge all the records of my Harry Potter fanfic

Link or auto

[President Eden]

kgray, why are you voting for BG, and who are your primary [other, if BG is still one] suspects and why?

[snowy801]

I am having a really hard time reading this game so why you think we will have another claim if Jasnah and Bunny are both town?

Like Jamiet said that was just me being an idiot. I shouldn't even be playing right now but eh, you know me

Also good, you're finally here. I need you to thread your killer instincts here because I'm not really feeling it right now

Dislike this interaction

I respect rdrivera's reads greatly and had you an ounce of sense within yourselves so would you.

You know, when he deigns to share any.

[Chaqa]

Bunny is Miller
Jasnah is either town or scum
I need to reread the Ghug and Durga stuff