M70 - THE BASKIN-ROBBINS CONSPIRACY [HIDDEN]

[BunnyGo]

You're reaction with jasnah was sus but also trying to balance out the votes.

So that’s like saying you think I’m lying about it all, and just in case you’re wrong at least the wagons are balanced?

If it makes you feel better I will ##VOTE BONA

No no. You do you. We’ve just never played to and I’m trying to understand you.

[TheFlyingBoat]

##vote worcej

I've already expressed my feeling of scum leans on him and while it isn't as strong as my leans on others it is the only wagon with any momentum right now so I'll park it there. If the strong scum kill wagon picks up steam at any point or Fluminator's wagon gets hot I'll probably switch, but until then I figure this is a better place to park a vote than Unvote.

[kgray]

kgray, huh? Sell me on this. What makes her scum?

a decent amount of small things

a) comments about me and her being buddies are a thing she did as scum recently

b) viewtopic.php?p=257194#p257194 (if i really was celaph i'd do the fancy link business) is something that like, I've never heard of? It doesn't jibe with what I know of Chaqa (and Eden's take agrees with me), it plays off what Durga said in a way to shade Chaqa but then claims that she's on his side (which in other comments she is), so I scum this interaction

c) Weird disagreement with worcej's post of good scum players, which is broadly right (and has me on it so that's good). I have some slight quibbles with it, like I would put rdr on it, but kgray's previous list of people she isn't willing to dk today does not have sufficient overlap for there to be only 1.5 players on worcej's list.

d) viewtopic.php?p=257333#p257333

This is actually interesting I am still leaning Flum, but that kill strong scum in an NR game does seem somewhat reasonable to me as well.

Excuse me?

[ghug]

Nothing about this play makes any sense as scum

It's creating a metric ton of chaos that we can't clear up without heavily using our PRs or two daykills. Nothing about it makes sense as town.

Sorry why would scum want to use up two daykills to kill off one of their own? In what world is that a reasonable tradeoff?

a) I think she's town at this point
b) "this is too stupid for scum to do" isn't a good argument when it's also too stupid for town to do. A bad play was made.

[Bonatogether]

kgray, huh? Sell me on this. What makes her scum?

a decent amount of small things

a) comments about me and her being buddies are a thing she did as scum recently

b) viewtopic.php?p=257194#p257194 (if i really was celaph i'd do the fancy link business) is something that like, I've never heard of? It doesn't jibe with what I know of Chaqa (and Eden's take agrees with me), it plays off what Durga said in a way to shade Chaqa but then claims that she's on his side (which in other comments she is), so I scum this interaction

c) Weird disagreement with worcej's post of good scum players, which is broadly right (and has me on it so that's good). I have some slight quibbles with it, like I would put rdr on it, but kgray's previous list of people she isn't willing to dk today does not have sufficient overlap for there to be only 1.5 players on worcej's list.

d) viewtopic.php?p=257333#p257333

a) I don't remember ever buddying you as scum. I remember trying my hardest to get town to ignore your constant insistence that celaph and I were scumbuddies.

b) You misinterpreted that entire situation, I think. I don't think scum!Chaqa panics at that amount of pressure at that time, and I also think Eden agreed with me.

c) My D1 no-kill list is not specific to this game (and tbh isn't really a thing, but I generally start there). My response to worcej's post was specific to this game.

d) I have no idea what you're implying with this post.

a) I said I remember you doing something like buddying me (edit: I found it - it was the bona is sharp business)

b) I misread this post

c) What are your reasons, then?

d) that I don't like it and find it scum-indicative

[kgray]

I am confident after the recent pages that BunnyGo is the genuine article. If the BG wagon rightfully dissolves, then we can consider whether it's worth trying to find a better target than jasnah (who I think plausibly could have fakeclaimed as town), but as long as it's jasnah vs BunnyGo, I'm voting jasnah and it's not particularly close.

If we actually do look elsewhere then I'd like to look at Durga. She's taken a reactive posture that's uncharacteristic of her town play, and I can't shake the nagging feeling that her comment that jasnah was "obviously faking" came from the mindset of someone who knows who is and isn't mafia.

But I'm not going to go there as long as jasnah vs BunnyGo is the wagon. And I cannot emphasize enough that we should not kill both of them.

How would scum!Durga know jasnah was "obviously faking" if jasnah is town? Durga would have no idea who the miller is. And why would scum!Durga defend her teammate jasnah?

To be more precise, Durga's post indicated that she immediately believed that jasnah was both town and fakeclaiming. That obviously means BG is the genuine Miller and is also town. Reaching a conclusion that one is genuine and one is fakeclaiming obviously doesn't indicate anything (one of them has to be, and there's no inherent reason why quickly deciding that jasnah was the fakeclaimer is suspicious). Reaching the conclusion that both of them are town, that quickly, may indicate foreknowledge that both were town, which Durga would have if she were mafia.

It's not a 100% logical proof and of course you're free to disagree with my suspicion that she reached that conclusion due to foreknowledge from being mafia. But it isn't that she knew which Miller claim was fake, but rather that she believed both were town.

I must have missed where Durga reacted to Bunny's Miller CC with a townread of him?

[Fluminator]

Observations so far:

Sabi as vocal newb very likely town
PE obvtown
Durga TV
Jamie absent
Worcej strangely makes his list announcement redundant by it's very announcement (could be a dk candidate)
Flum scum or bad
Doom ?
Chaqa tad off
Tfb suspicious
Kgray likely town

Rest: playing to meta

Damo, why were you voting kgray if you read her as town?

[ghug]

How would scum!Durga know jasnah was "obviously faking" if jasnah is town? Durga would have no idea who the miller is. And why would scum!Durga defend her teammate jasnah?

To be more precise, Durga's post indicated that she immediately believed that jasnah was both town and fakeclaiming. That obviously means BG is the genuine Miller and is also town. Reaching a conclusion that one is genuine and one is fakeclaiming obviously doesn't indicate anything (one of them has to be, and there's no inherent reason why quickly deciding that jasnah was the fakeclaimer is suspicious). Reaching the conclusion that both of them are town, that quickly, may indicate foreknowledge that both were town, which Durga would have if she were mafia.

It's not a 100% logical proof and of course you're free to disagree with my suspicion that she reached that conclusion due to foreknowledge from being mafia. But it isn't that she knew which Miller claim was fake, but rather that she believed both were town.

I must have missed where Durga reacted to Bunny's Miller CC with a townread of him?

I don't think she did, at least immediately.. She thought jasnah was fakeclaiming town and bunny was scum, which makes minimal sense, and then she attacked everyone who called her out on it instead of explaining her position (which, sadly, is NAI).

[Chaqa]

D1 is jasnah/Bunny
D2 is Bunny/jasnah
D3 we resume the game.

Looks like we got our 'boring PR game' after all lawlz

Probably should've just no-killed like I proposed.

I think we should decide which one we believe, vote out the other one, and stick to our guns. No need to 50/50.

Are you high? That's the worst thing I've heard you say since the Royal Bodyguard fiasco.

[President Eden]

How would scum!Durga know jasnah was "obviously faking" if jasnah is town? Durga would have no idea who the miller is. And why would scum!Durga defend her teammate jasnah?

To be more precise, Durga's post indicated that she immediately believed that jasnah was both town and fakeclaiming. That obviously means BG is the genuine Miller and is also town. Reaching a conclusion that one is genuine and one is fakeclaiming obviously doesn't indicate anything (one of them has to be, and there's no inherent reason why quickly deciding that jasnah was the fakeclaimer is suspicious). Reaching the conclusion that both of them are town, that quickly, may indicate foreknowledge that both were town, which Durga would have if she were mafia.

It's not a 100% logical proof and of course you're free to disagree with my suspicion that she reached that conclusion due to foreknowledge from being mafia. But it isn't that she knew which Miller claim was fake, but rather that she believed both were town.

I must have missed where Durga reacted to Bunny's Miller CC with a townread of him?

I suppose she never said she did, but she also never indicated that she believed both claims were fake, and in absence of any indication one way or the other, I defaulted to what I would consider the obvious logical conclusion from believing one of two contradictory role claimants is fake, which is that the other is true.

If she still scumread BG at that point then that is a separate issue - a lack of naturally evolving reads incongruent with the amount of attention she was paying to the game. Either way there's reason to think she's mafia from it.

[Durga]

To be more precise, Durga's post indicated that she immediately believed that jasnah was both town and fakeclaiming. That obviously means BG is the genuine Miller and is also town. Reaching a conclusion that one is genuine and one is fakeclaiming obviously doesn't indicate anything (one of them has to be, and there's no inherent reason why quickly deciding that jasnah was the fakeclaimer is suspicious). Reaching the conclusion that both of them are town, that quickly, may indicate foreknowledge that both were town, which Durga would have if she were mafia.

It's not a 100% logical proof and of course you're free to disagree with my suspicion that she reached that conclusion due to foreknowledge from being mafia. But it isn't that she knew which Miller claim was fake, but rather that she believed both were town.

I must have missed where Durga reacted to Bunny's Miller CC with a townread of him?

I don't think she did, at least immediately.. She thought jasnah was fakeclaiming town and bunny was scum, which makes minimal sense, and then she attacked everyone who called her out on it instead of explaining her position (which, sadly, is NAI).

Way to misrepresent me again. I'm not impressed. I very much explained my thoughts and to pretend I didn't is really shady.

[Durga]

To be more precise, Durga's post indicated that she immediately believed that jasnah was both town and fakeclaiming. That obviously means BG is the genuine Miller and is also town. Reaching a conclusion that one is genuine and one is fakeclaiming obviously doesn't indicate anything (one of them has to be, and there's no inherent reason why quickly deciding that jasnah was the fakeclaimer is suspicious). Reaching the conclusion that both of them are town, that quickly, may indicate foreknowledge that both were town, which Durga would have if she were mafia.

It's not a 100% logical proof and of course you're free to disagree with my suspicion that she reached that conclusion due to foreknowledge from being mafia. But it isn't that she knew which Miller claim was fake, but rather that she believed both were town.

I must have missed where Durga reacted to Bunny's Miller CC with a townread of him?

I suppose she never said she did, but she also never indicated that she believed both claims were fake, and in absence of any indication one way or the other, I defaulted to what I would consider the obvious logical conclusion from believing one of two contradictory role claimants is fake, which is that the other is true.

If she still scumread BG at that point then that is a separate issue - a lack of naturally evolving reads incongruent with the amount of attention she was paying to the game. Either way there's reason to think she's mafia from it.

Where did I scum read him after, I've even stated that I don't think either is the kill. If you're saying my reads aren't naturally evolving when I've moved off bunny already you're also deliberately lying or deceiving yourself so you can convince yourself I'm scum

I'm not even gonna touch that first part

[Durga]

It's creating a metric ton of chaos that we can't clear up without heavily using our PRs or two daykills. Nothing about it makes sense as town.

Sorry why would scum want to use up two daykills to kill off one of their own? In what world is that a reasonable tradeoff?

a) I think she's town at this point
b) "this is too stupid for scum to do" isn't a good argument when it's also too stupid for town to do. A bad play was made.

So you think she's town but you think I'm scum for thinking she wasn't serious about claiming. Okay.

[Durga]

##VOTE bunnygo

We haven’t really met. Do you think I’m making a deep scum play here? Do you just not like me? Do you think I’m not the Miller?

You're reaction with jasnah was sus but also trying to balance out the votes.

What was sus? Why are you trying to balance out the votes?

[Durga]

Let's wait for bozo to tell us who to kill.
And if not, lets keep killing damo.

I do not know what is going on.

At first I thought BunnyGo might have left fake miller crumbs as mafia in case he was ever cop scanned, then decided to use the crumbs to CC the miller claim since he was the lead wagon. However, jasnah now seems to be indicating her claim was fake, which would leave no reason not to believe BunnyGo's miller claim. jasnah claiming miller as mafia does not make sense, but I do not think fake claiming miller is a good town play either.

How come you're not looking for scum theater in this mess??

This is a good point

[Durga]

I must have missed where Durga reacted to Bunny's Miller CC with a townread of him?

I don't think she did, at least immediately.. She thought jasnah was fakeclaiming town and bunny was scum, which makes minimal sense, and then she attacked everyone who called her out on it instead of explaining her position (which, sadly, is NAI).

Way to misrepresent me again. I'm not impressed. I very much explained my thoughts and to pretend I didn't is really shady.

And yes, I did think bunny was scum before the claim, how does that make minimal sense?

[President Eden]

I must have missed where Durga reacted to Bunny's Miller CC with a townread of him?

I suppose she never said she did, but she also never indicated that she believed both claims were fake, and in absence of any indication one way or the other, I defaulted to what I would consider the obvious logical conclusion from believing one of two contradictory role claimants is fake, which is that the other is true.

If she still scumread BG at that point then that is a separate issue - a lack of naturally evolving reads incongruent with the amount of attention she was paying to the game. Either way there's reason to think she's mafia from it.

Where did I scum read him after, I've even stated that I don't think either is the kill. If you're saying my reads aren't naturally evolving when I've moved off bunny already you're also deliberately lying or deceiving yourself so you can convince yourself I'm scum

I'm not even gonna touch that first part

You aren't engaging with what I'm actually saying. If I'm wrong and you're town then you are choosing one of the worst possible strategies to help me see it.

[kgray]

It's creating a metric ton of chaos that we can't clear up without heavily using our PRs or two daykills. Nothing about it makes sense as town.

Sorry why would scum want to use up two daykills to kill off one of their own? In what world is that a reasonable tradeoff?

a) I think she's town at this point
b) "this is too stupid for scum to do" isn't a good argument when it's also too stupid for town to do. A bad play was made.

Town and scum don't have the same motives and therefore don't have the same consequences. I don't think scum do the same bad plays town do.

[Durga]

I suppose she never said she did, but she also never indicated that she believed both claims were fake, and in absence of any indication one way or the other, I defaulted to what I would consider the obvious logical conclusion from believing one of two contradictory role claimants is fake, which is that the other is true.

If she still scumread BG at that point then that is a separate issue - a lack of naturally evolving reads incongruent with the amount of attention she was paying to the game. Either way there's reason to think she's mafia from it.

Where did I scum read him after, I've even stated that I don't think either is the kill. If you're saying my reads aren't naturally evolving when I've moved off bunny already you're also deliberately lying or deceiving yourself so you can convince yourself I'm scum

I'm not even gonna touch that first part

You aren't engaging with what I'm actually saying. If I'm wrong and you're town then you are choosing one of the worst possible strategies to help me see it.

Idk if this helps but when I read jasnahs claim I dismissed it in my head as a joke since that's all she'd done so far and someone said she once caught five scum in a row. I wasn't sure what to make of bunny's claim but after thinking about it I feel like he wouldn't fake claim it as scum so early so I took my vote off him.

[Durga]

Sorry why would scum want to use up two daykills to kill off one of their own? In what world is that a reasonable tradeoff?

a) I think she's town at this point
b) "this is too stupid for scum to do" isn't a good argument when it's also too stupid for town to do. A bad play was made.

Town and scum don't have the same motives and therefore don't have the same consequences. I don't think scum do the same bad plays town do.

Yeah it's a little shocking to me that ghug doesn't realize that right off the bat too. In fact you have more incentive not to make a bad play as scum on day one since you have to work with a team to succeed. Whereas I've seen townies on webdip make the worst plays all the time