M70 - THE BASKIN-ROBBINS CONSPIRACY [HIDDEN]

[Tom Bombadil]

im actually surprised the usual suspects havent talked about a massclaim yet.

It might be boring as fuck (and im not advocating it whatsoever), but this is actually the very best type of setup to massclaim, to completely take away the possibility for mafia to fakeclaim down the line and get a guaranteed victory by lucking out on killing a PR and then claiming it later, along with some false results. It takes away the horrendous scenario where we have a cop vs cop claimfiesta, along with results, and we have no idea of knowing which results are real and which are fake. It takes away the EoD fakeclaim-save on a scum thats about to get killed. And it reduces every VT's odds of finding scum to 4/15.

Having said all that, fuck you, we aint doing it, because boring and all. But its sort of telling that certain people have not even thought of this line of logic, and done their usual thing of superior reasoning and poor convincing.

I'm more shocked that everyone is trying to approach this game with the same logic they utilize in our standard games.

Locking this in now: this game is going to boil down to a popularity contest and town is going to lose.

Who is “they” here?

[kgray]

M57: TOWN Chaqa. Now, this is the magnus opus of this case. Hold your hats. After this, Chaqa is totally going to get daykilled: viewtopic.php?p=161341#p161341

TOWN CHAQA PARTICIPATES IN CATS VS DOGS ARGUMENTS.

BOOM. MIC DROP.

This is from a sign-up thread.

smh at Chaqa really making me do work as his spokesperson.

[Durga]

M57: TOWN Chaqa. Now, this is the magnus opus of this case. Hold your hats. After this, Chaqa is totally going to get daykilled: viewtopic.php?p=161341#p161341

TOWN CHAQA PARTICIPATES IN CATS VS DOGS ARGUMENTS.

BOOM. MIC DROP.

This is from a sign-up thread.

smh at Chaqa really making me do work as his spokesperson.

I think Vecna's point is that Chaqa should have participated in the discussion since he felt so strongly on the topic?

[kgray]

Perhaps we should discuss who should claim and when.

With 5 PRs v 4 scum scum cannot afford to CC so claims will be quasi-clear.

I suggest miller and doc claim EON1. Hopefully scum kill a vt N1 this would give cop 3 scans and Jack 3 uses since presumably scum would kill the 2 claimants N2 and N3.

Oracle could read the N1 kill and declare EON3 giving the cop another scan and Jack could autopsy the doc claimant.

Jack and cop then reveal all their info EON4.

A more conservative option would be for doc and miller to claim now and bring everything as above forward a night.

I hate hate hate this post.

I do think the Miller should claim ASAP, but not EoN1. Sooner.

The other roles can inform their decisions around the Miller.

The Cop and potentially the JOAT will be scanning tonight, and if the Miller waits til EoN, there's a chance they waste a scan on the Miller, which I don't think we want

Additionally, if the Doc claims, they are neutralized permanently, whereas if the Miller claims, it provides a clear place for the Doc to protect on Night 1, or try to fake-out the mafia for a N2 save.

Damo being sus.

Damo is sus for disagreeing about mechs? Doesn't he disagree with people all the time?

[Durga]

But you're right saying town Chaqa is obv wrong

[BunnyGo]

Perhaps we should discuss who should claim and when.

With 5 PRs v 4 scum scum cannot afford to CC so claims will be quasi-clear.

I suggest miller and doc claim EON1. Hopefully scum kill a vt N1 this would give cop 3 scans and Jack 3 uses since presumably scum would kill the 2 claimants N2 and N3.

Oracle could read the N1 kill and declare EON3 giving the cop another scan and Jack could autopsy the doc claimant.

Jack and cop then reveal all their info EON4.

A more conservative option would be for doc and miller to claim now and bring everything as above forward a night.

I hate hate hate this post.

I do think the Miller should claim ASAP, but not EoN1. Sooner.

The other roles can inform their decisions around the Miller.

The Cop and potentially the JOAT will be scanning tonight, and if the Miller waits til EoN, there's a chance they waste a scan on the Miller, which I don't think we want

Additionally, if the Doc claims, they are neutralized permanently, whereas if the Miller claims, it provides a clear place for the Doc to protect on Night 1, or try to fake-out the mafia for a N2 save.

Damo being sus.

I'm not averse to miller claiming D1.

Maybe doc can wait as they would be useful after claims. Oracle could claim with a reveal. Jack can claim EONx where x is the night they use third power. Cop is the most valuable PR and preserving them and getting max info from them should be #1 priority.

Are you not worried about the roleblock on the doctor? Why have you not considered the roleblock in any of your analysis?

[kgray]

I'm just gonna put my vote in. Without any actual information, it's pretty impossible for me to bother scum-reading. (plus, all the mafia people know who's town, and I'm thinking it's pretty easy for them to railroad a towny, and none of us would even know).

## no vote

I do have a question-Why is it when people do role claim, they do so somewhat ambiguously? Are we just hoping people don't notice? Seems like that hurts town more than helps them, b/c only one mafia person has to notice that, and can share with rest of Mafia, but any town people who don't notice just don't know

People think they're clever.

On your first post, why do you think there is no actual information, and also that you can't be bothered to scum-read? Would you argue that this is equally true in a game with reveals, and would advocate D1 no votes selfsame? Or would you say this approached was influenced by talk of no kills in this game specifically?

Well, I don't think I have any actual information, cause I've never played this game at all, and also have never played with any of y'all. And a solid half of the discussion resolves around people's past gameplay. When I wasn't involved with those games, I can't really comment on their play, unless I try to read through ~200 page archives in addition with keeping up with this thread.

If I don't know anything about the meta, I can only think through mechanics, and Mechanics wise everything falls into a WIFOM situation until power roles start using and claiming. Mafia are gonna get their night kills, which also gives us actual information to use. I guess cop does get a free read, so we're not totally blind? But trying to guess which of us is cop, and then which person cop got a free read on? I dunno. Right now the only thing that's super legible to me is people memeing on each other, and that doesn't really lend itself to a good chance of catching a Mafia vs. Town.

I thought you said you've read through some past games?

[snowy801]

im actually surprised the usual suspects havent talked about a massclaim yet.

It might be boring as fuck (and im not advocating it whatsoever), but this is actually the very best type of setup to massclaim, to completely take away the possibility for mafia to fakeclaim down the line and get a guaranteed victory by lucking out on killing a PR and then claiming it later, along with some false results. It takes away the horrendous scenario where we have a cop vs cop claimfiesta, along with results, and we have no idea of knowing which results are real and which are fake. It takes away the EoD fakeclaim-save on a scum thats about to get killed. And it reduces every VT's odds of finding scum to 4/15.

Having said all that, fuck you, we aint doing it, because boring and all. But its sort of telling that certain people have not even thought of this line of logic, and done their usual thing of superior reasoning and poor convincing.

I'm more shocked that everyone is trying to approach this game with the same logic they utilize in our standard games.

Locking this in now: this game is going to boil down to a popularity contest and town is going to lose.

Who's the popular ones here?

[Vecna]

M57: TOWN Chaqa. Now, this is the magnus opus of this case. Hold your hats. After this, Chaqa is totally going to get daykilled: viewtopic.php?p=161341#p161341

TOWN CHAQA PARTICIPATES IN CATS VS DOGS ARGUMENTS.

BOOM. MIC DROP.

This is from a sign-up thread.

smh at Chaqa really making me do work as his spokesperson.

Damnit, why does the bot do that. Stupid gluing of signups threads to people their post-lists.

I was -this- close to proving the causality between Chaqa's alignment and his participation in the superior pet discourse.

My life's work has been foiled.

[damo666]

Remember Cop starts with info so they can give us 5 pieces of info day 5. Just got to make sure they survive.

Other benefits to other PRs claiming (time appropriately) on top of cop preservation are

i) it makes a dk of scum more likely
ii) scum may be tempted to cc

[Tom Bombadil]

im actually surprised the usual suspects havent talked about a massclaim yet.

It might be boring as fuck (and im not advocating it whatsoever), but this is actually the very best type of setup to massclaim, to completely take away the possibility for mafia to fakeclaim down the line and get a guaranteed victory by lucking out on killing a PR and then claiming it later, along with some false results. It takes away the horrendous scenario where we have a cop vs cop claimfiesta, along with results, and we have no idea of knowing which results are real and which are fake. It takes away the EoD fakeclaim-save on a scum thats about to get killed. And it reduces every VT's odds of finding scum to 4/15.

Having said all that, fuck you, we aint doing it, because boring and all. But its sort of telling that certain people have not even thought of this line of logic, and done their usual thing of superior reasoning and poor convincing.

I'm more shocked that everyone is trying to approach this game with the same logic they utilize in our standard games.

Locking this in now: this game is going to boil down to a popularity contest and town is going to lose.

Who is “they” here?

Sorry “everyone” is the word you used. I don’t believe everyone is treating this game as normal - and you generalizing as everyone instead of telling us who you think is actually treating this game as normal makes me think you don’t actually care about finding out who is treating this setup as different and who is not.

[Doom427]

I thought you said you've read through some past games?
[/quote]

Yeah, I did. But I did not also look at who was saying everything. Just read the posts to get a general sense of ebb-and-flow.

[kgray]

M57: TOWN Chaqa. Now, this is the magnus opus of this case. Hold your hats. After this, Chaqa is totally going to get daykilled: viewtopic.php?p=161341#p161341

TOWN CHAQA PARTICIPATES IN CATS VS DOGS ARGUMENTS.

BOOM. MIC DROP.

This is from a sign-up thread.

smh at Chaqa really making me do work as his spokesperson.

I think Vecna's point is that Chaqa should have participated in the discussion since he felt so strongly on the topic?

I got Vecna's point, was mostly commenting on the fact that I looked into this case more than Chaqa did. Which maybe proves Vecna's point, though personally I'm still not sure if it's alignment indicative? Chaqa is not someone that is easy for me to read.

[damo666]

Perhaps we should discuss who should claim and when.

With 5 PRs v 4 scum scum cannot afford to CC so claims will be quasi-clear.

I suggest miller and doc claim EON1. Hopefully scum kill a vt N1 this would give cop 3 scans and Jack 3 uses since presumably scum would kill the 2 claimants N2 and N3.

Oracle could read the N1 kill and declare EON3 giving the cop another scan and Jack could autopsy the doc claimant.

Jack and cop then reveal all their info EON4.

A more conservative option would be for doc and miller to claim now and bring everything as above forward a night.

I hate hate hate this post.

I do think the Miller should claim ASAP, but not EoN1. Sooner.

The other roles can inform their decisions around the Miller.

The Cop and potentially the JOAT will be scanning tonight, and if the Miller waits til EoN, there's a chance they waste a scan on the Miller, which I don't think we want

Additionally, if the Doc claims, they are neutralized permanently, whereas if the Miller claims, it provides a clear place for the Doc to protect on Night 1, or try to fake-out the mafia for a N2 save.

Damo being sus.

Damo is sus for disagreeing about mechs? Doesn't he disagree with people all the time?

No.

[Chaqa]

Perhaps we should discuss who should claim and when.

With 5 PRs v 4 scum scum cannot afford to CC so claims will be quasi-clear.

I suggest miller and doc claim EON1. Hopefully scum kill a vt N1 this would give cop 3 scans and Jack 3 uses since presumably scum would kill the 2 claimants N2 and N3.

Oracle could read the N1 kill and declare EON3 giving the cop another scan and Jack could autopsy the doc claimant.

Jack and cop then reveal all their info EON4.

A more conservative option would be for doc and miller to claim now and bring everything as above forward a night.

I hate hate hate this post.

I do think the Miller should claim ASAP, but not EoN1. Sooner.

The other roles can inform their decisions around the Miller.

When sooner? The window of time for that is pretty slight and I haven't seen you push for it yet. Why is that?

Wouldn't the logical conclusion of this for town to never make a daykill until they have to?

And when it will be? And how does town know it?

Exactly. I don't think no kill can work too well, but maybe for a day or two.

I think a more interesting discussion is about whether the Miller should claim. I think probably so?

How can the miller be a clear?

Well, any Miller who has their role claimed is gonna CC because they don't have any value hidden, so an unCCed Miller means either they're clear or the real Miller is dead.

Right, so shouldn't Miller claim as early as possible so there's no chance mafia claims it later and gets away with something?

Daykill and Miller reveal

are you even reading?

[Chaqa]

Other notes/take aways from the above: Town Chaqa getting scumread or tunneled by me has responded with a lot of suspicion, trying to get me counter-killed.

Scum Chaqa always ignores me. Townreads me, and pushes for my NK, knowing people will ignore me anyway.

Also, historically im pretty accurate in reading him, so him responding with one game example where I was wrong (while he was scumreading me as well), feels a bit of a copout. Also, he's not suspicious whatsoever im tunneling him as scum for an easy misskill. He's only responding with "I cannot read him".

Well, I'm not ignoring you, and I'm also not townreading you, so your data is clearly incomplete.

The point is that you did not respond with suspicion, but with an attempt to prove my inaccuracy.

I said you're bad at reading me.

The last two games, at minimum, support that.

Last game you were quite literally death tunneling on a ghug/Chaqa scumteam, when both of us were town.

[Vecna]

Remember Cop starts with info so they can give us 5 pieces of info day 5. Just got to make sure they survive.

Other benefits to other PRs claiming (time appropriately) on top of cop preservation are

i) it makes a dk of scum more likely
ii) scum may be tempted to cc

You realize this is the sort of information that mafia forget when theyre claiming cop? Why on earth would you bring attention to this little snippet.

uncool. uncool

[Chaqa]

M57: TOWN Chaqa. Now, this is the magnus opus of this case. Hold your hats. After this, Chaqa is totally going to get daykilled: viewtopic.php?p=161341#p161341

TOWN CHAQA PARTICIPATES IN CATS VS DOGS ARGUMENTS.

BOOM. MIC DROP.

This is from a sign-up thread.

smh at Chaqa really making me do work as his spokesperson.

I think Vecna's point is that Chaqa should have participated in the discussion since he felt so strongly on the topic?

smh I was playing board games with Eden, I wasn't completely tuned into the nonsense back and forth.

These ridiculous "I'm sure about this" style D1 reads are pure ego and Vecna is tunneling for no good reason.

[snowy801]

are you even reading?

I don't see a single post where you say "miller, claim." You and Eden both, all theory and no bite.

If they miller should claim D1, is there any reason not to do so now? And if so, why haven't you asked for it?

[Vecna]

This is from a sign-up thread.

smh at Chaqa really making me do work as his spokesperson.

I think Vecna's point is that Chaqa should have participated in the discussion since he felt so strongly on the topic?

I got Vecna's point, was mostly commenting on the fact that I looked into this case more than Chaqa did. Which maybe proves Vecna's point, though personally I'm still not sure if it's alignment indicative? Chaqa is not someone that is easy for me to read.

Makes you wonder dunnit?