Mini Mafia 1018 - Race with the Devil [hidden]

[rdrivera2005]

By the way, sorry for tunneling you all game Ghug.

[Chaqa]

I mean, I'm probably going to vote Maniac regardless, but let me see what you guys think.

Also...

I KNEW GHUG WAS TOWN

I had a post written to post at EON (that I missed again) saying that in case I die I thought it was Chaqa. But I didn't expect Ghug to be the NK. It makes a lot more sense for Maniac to kill Ghug then Chaqa. I need to rethink and I need to re-read both D1 and yesterday carefully.

Chaqa and Maniac, please don't end vote, it's a really bad strategy at kilo, I already lost a game because of it.

You cannot possibly think I’m mafia.

[rdrivera2005]

Hmm ... if Bob is actually mafia with lfischl here, he might also try to do a low key bus. In that case, would it be correct to go for Bob? Or lfischl?

I am really impressed how this comment aged well. Kudos Kak.

[Chaqa]

@rivera

If i were scum, why would I not simply cause a tie at Eod? I was there, clearly.

[rdrivera2005]

@Jamie - just saying you’re not scum, isn’t a great agreement.

- I’m happy to ##vote lfischl as he may be modkilled anyway. And it sets up a three way tie that may give us some info in last 10 mins

And this is Maniac vote that got him a lot of credit.

[rdrivera2005]

@rivera

If i were scum, why would I not simply cause a tie at Eod? I was there, clearly.

This isn't exactly true. When Ghug voted Bob making it to 3 you couldn't tie. Then you was forced to vote Bob and you can't know what Bob would do so tryng to tie would be too risky.

Obviously Maniac vote look worst as it seems he was trying to get a tie.

[Chaqa]

@rivera

If i were scum, why would I not simply cause a tie at Eod? I was there, clearly.

This isn't exactly true. When Ghug voted Bob making it to 3 you couldn't tie. Then you was forced to vote Bob and you can't know what Bob would do so tryng to tie would be too risky.

Obviously Maniac vote look worst as it seems he was trying to get a tie.

No, I mean once Maniac had moved off of Bob, I could have voted for Maniac or ghug and caused a 2-2-1 tie.

[rdrivera2005]

@rivera

If i were scum, why would I not simply cause a tie at Eod? I was there, clearly.

This isn't exactly true. When Ghug voted Bob making it to 3 you couldn't tie. Then you was forced to vote Bob and you can't know what Bob would do so tryng to tie would be too risky.

Obviously Maniac vote look worst as it seems he was trying to get a tie.

No, I mean once Maniac had moved off of Bob, I could have voted for Maniac or ghug and caused a 2-2-1 tie.

True, but it was a really small timeframe. At this point, I just want Maniac to explain what he was tryng to do at last EOD.

I would ask you about EOD1 (voting lfischl then moving to Worcej) but it wasn't you.

[Maniac]

Sorry for being awol. Been a busy busy day.

RIP Ghug sorry for not believing you.

I’d just like to remind you all that whilst Ghug was my top read, Bob was my second place and I tried to get him killed all day.

Obviously my very late switch looks bad, I couldn’t know Ghug and chaqa would switch or if rdriveria was lurking for late switch so Ghug who he had expressed he was likely to vote for.

The question to ask yourself rdriveria is what would scum!Maniac do in last minute yesterday? If scum!maniac bussed Ifischl why doesn’t scum!mafia just stay on Bob and coast to victory today.

I can’t see any way scum!rdriveria plants a vote on Bob and then disappears, especially in this game where it’s now clear that’s what Bob did on D1.

Chaqa must be scum. He finally voted Bob when he must have thought he was already dead anyway.

##vote chaqa.

Can I just say I’m happy to be here. All the pieces of the puzzle are now here. I won’t be voting end at any stage.

I’d encourage rdriveria to re-read the whole game.

@chaqa - it does you no credit to say you were certain Ghug was town. Scum are always certain other players are town.

[rdrivera2005]

Bob will obv vote me so ##vote Ghug and pray fit Rdr to turn up

Explain me what you mean with this. Why you said you were worried with a tie and then vote a totally new wagon that have 0 chance to work (even if I vote Ghug, Chaqa made clear he won't vote Ghug and if you think Bob will vote you he won't vote Ghug). I can't see any reason for a town to cast this vote. Unless you can give me a decent explanation I will ##vote Maniac

[Maniac]

Bob will obv vote me so ##vote Ghug and pray fit Rdr to turn up

Explain me what you mean with this. Why you said you were worried with a tie and then vote a totally new wagon that have 0 chance to work (even if I vote Ghug, Chaqa made clear he won't vote Ghug and if you think Bob will vote you he won't vote Ghug). I can't see any reason for a town to cast this vote. Unless you can give me a decent explanation I will ##vote Maniac

It wasn’t my finest hour. In the moment I was looking at being killed and it would be game over. Scum Bob jumps on me and chaqa and Ghug hold. Obviously we now know Ghug was misguided town, but I didn’t know that then. Chaqa:Ghug was still possible so it was possible I could save myself with you me and Bob all voting Ghug.

In hindsight I should’ve held, but games aren’t won with hindsight.

[Chaqa]

This isn't exactly true. When Ghug voted Bob making it to 3 you couldn't tie. Then you was forced to vote Bob and you can't know what Bob would do so tryng to tie would be too risky.

Obviously Maniac vote look worst as it seems he was trying to get a tie.

No, I mean once Maniac had moved off of Bob, I could have voted for Maniac or ghug and caused a 2-2-1 tie.

True, but it was a really small timeframe. At this point, I just want Maniac to explain what he was tryng to do at last EOD.

I would ask you about EOD1 (voting lfischl then moving to Worcej) but it wasn't you.

The timeframe wasn't really that small. Two minutes is plenty of time when you're refreshing the page every five seconds.

Don't just look at vote counts and "oh Chaqa was the 4th vote obv scum"

Ghug and I were pushing Maniac, and came back to Bob because you were (from our perspective) AFK on Bob, and we trusted you were town, so we voted for Bob.

[Chaqa]

Sorry for being awol. Been a busy busy day.

RIP Ghug sorry for not believing you.

I’d just like to remind you all that whilst Ghug was my top read, Bob was my second place and I tried to get him killed all day.

Obviously my very late switch looks bad, I couldn’t know Ghug and chaqa would switch or if rdriveria was lurking for late switch so Ghug who he had expressed he was likely to vote for.

The question to ask yourself rdriveria is what would scum!Maniac do in last minute yesterday? If scum!maniac bussed Ifischl why doesn’t scum!mafia just stay on Bob and coast to victory today.

I can’t see any way scum!rdriveria plants a vote on Bob and then disappears, especially in this game where it’s now clear that’s what Bob did on D1.

Chaqa must be scum. He finally voted Bob when he must have thought he was already dead anyway.

##vote chaqa.

Can I just say I’m happy to be here. All the pieces of the puzzle are now here. I won’t be voting end at any stage.

I’d encourage rdriveria to re-read the whole game.

@chaqa - it does you no credit to say you were certain Ghug was town. Scum are always certain other players are town.

The fact you think you're the one deciding between me and RDR and not me deciding between you and RDR is a bit... deluded?

Think back to the Vecna kill.

By your logic, I killed the person screaming from the hilltops that "Chaqa and ghug are scum" and then somehow not only did not get myself killed, depsite being the obvious one of those two to get flipped. I then offfered myself up to town for two days, made a plan to allow the cop to get more scans, and pushed out Bob, when I could have tied it for autowin.

Truly the thoughts of a maniac.

[Maniac]

Sorry for being awol. Been a busy busy day.

RIP Ghug sorry for not believing you.

I’d just like to remind you all that whilst Ghug was my top read, Bob was my second place and I tried to get him killed all day.

Obviously my very late switch looks bad, I couldn’t know Ghug and chaqa would switch or if rdriveria was lurking for late switch so Ghug who he had expressed he was likely to vote for.

The question to ask yourself rdriveria is what would scum!Maniac do in last minute yesterday? If scum!maniac bussed Ifischl why doesn’t scum!mafia just stay on Bob and coast to victory today.

I can’t see any way scum!rdriveria plants a vote on Bob and then disappears, especially in this game where it’s now clear that’s what Bob did on D1.

Chaqa must be scum. He finally voted Bob when he must have thought he was already dead anyway.

##vote chaqa.

Can I just say I’m happy to be here. All the pieces of the puzzle are now here. I won’t be voting end at any stage.

I’d encourage rdriveria to re-read the whole game.

@chaqa - it does you no credit to say you were certain Ghug was town. Scum are always certain other players are town.

The fact you think you're the one deciding between me and RDR and not me deciding between you and RDR is a bit... deluded?

Think back to the Vecna kill.

By your logic, I killed the person screaming from the hilltops that "Chaqa and ghug are scum" and then somehow not only did not get myself killed, depsite being the obvious one of those two to get flipped. I then offfered myself up to town for two days, made a plan to allow the cop to get more scans, and pushed out Bob, when I could have tied it for autowin.

Truly the thoughts of a maniac.

Everybody knows your ability as scum to keep surviving somehow day by day. You’re on the verge of winning it for your team thanks to my error, but that aside you’ve played well and I won’t begrudge you and Bob the win. You’ve deserved it.

It won’t surprise you to learn that I see EOD differently to you. From my perspective I’m moments away from you, Ghug and late Bob switch killing me. I’m thinking there are two scum and one town in that three. What if it was you and Ghug as scum and Bob had to vote for me even though I was his big town read. (Obviously now I know he is scum and he always knew I was town, but I didn’t know that then). I saw a chance of a flash wagon me, Rdr on Ghug and hoping Town!Bob would join us. Obviously now I can see that would have lost us the game, but in the moment that was my thought process. Did I get all that down on paper? Clearly not. I would have been timed out.

It’s true that you’ve had a hand in killing scum. But I think you’ve jumped on Bob knowing he was going to die and wanted some cred. My error had doubled up your cred for sure.

But think about this. If it’s me and Bob why don’t I just stay on Bob all day? That way if either kill him with town and coast to victory today or die and give Bob great opportunity to win today.

My actions are clearly that of town acting on limited info. Yours are the actions of scum acting with certainty and setting themselves up for today’s final. Scum are certain about things because they have more knowledge.

I’m sure you’re now regretting RBing me. You were a fair candidate for a scan so I can see why you had to use kill on Celaph and RB on me. I was fairly widely townread so you weren’t giving me much more town cred but you were also trying to prevent a possible cop scan that would’ve lost you the game.

[rdrivera2005]

I keep going back and forth. I re-read half of the game at this point (D1, D2 D4 and D5, skipped D3 that was a no-kill and the nights). I think this is the first time I am in this position to be the deciding vote and I really don´t like it (there was that game Ghug won, but I knew he was scum and it wasn´t me that made the final decision).

The RB thing is interesting, because it makes sense from both POV. Maniac wasn't a likely scan and Bob (GF) was a likely one so not RBing and let Maniac claim for credit makes sense. On the other side, Chaqa was a likely scan, so RBing Maniac also makes sense if Chaqa is scum.

I was feeling Maniac as town during all game, because of D1 vote and on tone, but i just can´t go over the last two day voting. The vote on Bona was weird and made me think it was Ghug and Maniac after all. And yesterday voting doesn´t make sense even with Maniac explanation, you don´t rely your scumread (Bob) to appear (when he made clear he might not, which is a good way to park a vote and don´t show by the way) and vote the other scum. I can´t just ignore it considering it was a bad play in the heat of the moment.

So, I am still holding my vote on Maniac and hoping I am doing the right thing.

[Chaqa]

I need to do a little due diligence on Rivera yet. It’s odd to me Maniac isn’t even considering that possible (thst rdr is scum) when it’s the last day and he’s under the gun.

Wouldn’t town!Maniac be looking at all the possibilities and not just me?

[rdrivera2005]

I need to do a little due diligence on Rivera yet. It’s odd to me Maniac isn’t even considering that possible (thst rdr is scum) when it’s the last day and he’s under the gun.

Wouldn’t town!Maniac be looking at all the possibilities and not just me?

I confess I found a bit odd no one even considered me. It´s probably because of yesterday voting, I could have easily voted Ghug to force a tie if I were scum.

[Chaqa]

I need to do a little due diligence on Rivera yet. It’s odd to me Maniac isn’t even considering that possible (thst rdr is scum) when it’s the last day and he’s under the gun.

Wouldn’t town!Maniac be looking at all the possibilities and not just me?

I confess I found a bit odd no one even considered me. It´s probably because of yesterday voting, I could have easily voted Ghug to force a tie if I were scum.

Yeah, and same for me.

I think it’s prob just Maniac

[rdrivera2005]

I need to do a little due diligence on Rivera yet. It’s odd to me Maniac isn’t even considering that possible (thst rdr is scum) when it’s the last day and he’s under the gun.

Wouldn’t town!Maniac be looking at all the possibilities and not just me?

I confess I found a bit odd no one even considered me. It´s probably because of yesterday voting, I could have easily voted Ghug to force a tie if I were scum.

Yeah, and same for me.

I think it’s prob just Maniac

I would say that if you are scum you played a really impressive game, dodging the DK multiple days and you would also be the luckiest player ever, failing to force a tie but having Maniac to cast that vote yesterday.

[Chaqa]

From my perspective, one of two things is true:

Option 1: Maniac is scum, and could not disrupt the Bob wagon at the end as all three town (rivera, ghug, myself) were on it.

Option 2: Rivera is scum, and came back but couldn't get a grasp on the situation fast enough to do anything and bussed Bob, with Maniac simply being misguided.

Option 2 has the slight support of Maniac's RB claim.

I think, mafia could hold the roleblock with the assumption Maniac was unlikely to be scanned, but Bob might be.

If Rivera is mafia, then mafia roleblocked Maniac and killed celaph to maximize the coverage on the Cop.

@Maniac/Rivera: any additional thoughts about anything?