Mini Mafia 1018 - Race with the Devil [hidden]

[BobMcBob]

Bob, you're being all too reasonable. I might need to unvote you lol

I feel like Maniac, Kak, and RDR should all be able to read through this and come to the same conclusions you are, so hopefully we can stop with this nonsense of voting me.

yeah im really not sold on you being scum here
i dont think it works except as some kind of crazy suicide play which i do not expect
i honestly half expect someone to come along later and tear this completely to shreds and put up a good case for you but really not feeling it right now

I'm wondering if it might be ghug-bona at this moment.

Bona was reciprocally townreading me until the night time. I wonder if his teammate (ghug or not) could have told him to start scumreading me to help set up for a miskill with the double whammy NK on Vecna.

bona is a wildcard
but i really feel like other than maybe rdr bona is the one im least convinced is town
bona has felt a lot like bona this game, but i think thats normally the case
and he has had some pretty hectic reads on celaph and such, plus that roleblock kill post that literally half the game called out
i havent looked into interactions but bona is a pretty good candidate for scum

[BobMcBob]

that said, ##vote ghug for now

[Maniac]

Bob, you're being all too reasonable. I might need to unvote you lol

I feel like Maniac, Kak, and RDR should all be able to read through this and come to the same conclusions you are, so hopefully we can stop with this nonsense of voting me.

yeah im really not sold on you being scum here
i dont think it works except as some kind of crazy suicide play which i do not expect
i honestly half expect someone to come along later and tear this completely to shreds and put up a good case for you but really not feeling it right now

I'm wondering if it might be ghug-bona at this moment.

Bona was reciprocally townreading me until the night time. I wonder if his teammate (ghug or not) could have told him to start scumreading me to help set up for a miskill with the double whammy NK on Vecna.

It does seem odd that Bona had a firm towmread on you then switched to a vague ‘I scumread chaqa for lots of reasons’.

[Chaqa]

If the Cop has a guilty, claim it.

Open question: should the Cop claim with an inno scan? I think only if their scan target looks to be the daykill?

Maybe we should pretend EoD is one hour earlier and allow that window for the cop to claim, with a vote freeze for the last bit? I'm worried about miskills here.

[Maniac]

With a godfather in play the value of the innocent scan is only 50% whereas the cop will then 100% die tonight.

Cop getting one more scan in tonight and then I think they have to claim as we are at kill correct or lose. A guilty would be great but three innocent scans really reduce our pool for next daykill.

Obv we could have less than 3 innocent scans depending on if scanned people have been killed and/or cop has been roleblocked.

[Chaqa]

With a godfather in play the value of the innocent scan is only 50% whereas the cop will then 100% die tonight.

Cop getting one more scan in tonight and then I think they have to claim as we are at kill correct or lose. A guilty would be great but three innocent scans really reduce our pool for next daykill.

Obv we could have less than 3 innocent scans depending on if scanned people have been killed and/or cop has been roleblocked.

Okay okay, bear with me here.

We have 8 people left with a 6-2 spread.

Miskill puts us to 4-2.

What if we decide to vote no-kill today? This doesn't lose us a day, simply delays the decision, but tomorrow we would be at 5-2 with two added benefits:

1. There's no chance we accidentally wagon and reveal the cop today.
2. The cop has an additional night to scan someone

We could all even say that, barring a guilty scan, we would vote for XYZ, which would give the cop maximum knowledge on who to scan.

Say everyone is willing to make me one of the two flips we have. Fine, then, the Cop shouldn't scan me because I'm being flipped regardless, and therefore it would be a waste of a scan.

I really like this idea.

##Vote no-kill

[rdrivera2005]

With a godfather in play the value of the innocent scan is only 50% whereas the cop will then 100% die tonight.

Cop getting one more scan in tonight and then I think they have to claim as we are at kill correct or lose. A guilty would be great but three innocent scans really reduce our pool for next daykill.

Obv we could have less than 3 innocent scans depending on if scanned people have been killed and/or cop has been roleblocked.

Okay okay, bear with me here.

We have 8 people left with a 6-2 spread.

Miskill puts us to 4-2.

What if we decide to vote no-kill today? This doesn't lose us a day, simply delays the decision, but tomorrow we would be at 5-2 with two added benefits:

1. There's no chance we accidentally wagon and reveal the cop today.
2. The cop has an additional night to scan someone

We could all even say that, barring a guilty scan, we would vote for XYZ, which would give the cop maximum knowledge on who to scan.

Say everyone is willing to make me one of the two flips we have. Fine, then, the Cop shouldn't scan me because I'm being flipped regardless, and therefore it would be a waste of a scan.

I really like this idea.

##Vote no-kill

No, we should do this if we get to 4-2 not at 6-2. We should have a regular voting day today and if we miskill we still have a chance of a cop scan.

And cop shouldn't claim with an inno.

[Chaqa]

With a godfather in play the value of the innocent scan is only 50% whereas the cop will then 100% die tonight.

Cop getting one more scan in tonight and then I think they have to claim as we are at kill correct or lose. A guilty would be great but three innocent scans really reduce our pool for next daykill.

Obv we could have less than 3 innocent scans depending on if scanned people have been killed and/or cop has been roleblocked.

Okay okay, bear with me here.

We have 8 people left with a 6-2 spread.

Miskill puts us to 4-2.

What if we decide to vote no-kill today? This doesn't lose us a day, simply delays the decision, but tomorrow we would be at 5-2 with two added benefits:

1. There's no chance we accidentally wagon and reveal the cop today.
2. The cop has an additional night to scan someone

We could all even say that, barring a guilty scan, we would vote for XYZ, which would give the cop maximum knowledge on who to scan.

Say everyone is willing to make me one of the two flips we have. Fine, then, the Cop shouldn't scan me because I'm being flipped regardless, and therefore it would be a waste of a scan.

I really like this idea.

##Vote no-kill

No, we should do this if we get to 4-2 not at 6-2. We should have a regular voting day today and if we miskill we still have a chance of a cop scan.

And cop shouldn't claim with an inno.

I strongly disagree.

Unless I take the bullet here and let you all flip me, there is a decent chance we hit the cop with a wagon today and fore them to claim to save themselves. If that happens, the cop dies with no additional scan.

If we no-kill, we guarantee this does not happen, and guarantee scum has to try to hunt them down tonight. They can post their two scans at EoN and reveal third tomorrow.

It makes no sense to vote no kill at 4-2. Then scum is 40% of the vote and cop is likely outted and dead already.

We do it now, scum is only 2/7 (28.5%) of the vote, and cop should be guaranteed to get a third scan, and most importantly, one on someone who NEEDS to be scanned like ghug, bona, or you.

I'm actually so certain this is the right play, I will not move my vote even under threat of death.

[Chaqa]

I'm basically offering an ultimatum to you all.

You can vote no kill, and make the right play for protecting the cop, or you can flip me, and then at least the Cop is also not being wagoned and revealed today, and likely it's the same as voting no kill, except you've lost a VT.

[Chaqa]

It would also keep the option of a no-kill alive for tomorrow, I suppose, which could be valuable.

[ghug]

cause there's a cop out there? unless they are reasonably certain that celaph is cop, there's no value to roleblocking him repeatedly, but if they know he's cop, why not kill him????

Right. RBing the kill has no purpose, since the only PR left is the cop, and they won't get a scan off anyway if they're dead. RBing celaph makes a lot of sense in that scenario, because it doesn't create a new softclear and gives two shots at preventing a scan.

I have the luxury of knowing that the Vecna kill was not cop hunting, as I was his only consistent townread and I'm town. The fact that you're pushing the narrative that scum never kill to frame people because it doesn't work while also pushing to kill the people he scumread because he died is very strange.

you what exactly?
the person vecna was consistently scumreading says with authority scum was not cop because vecna townread him?
ghug what the heck is this post
was your intention to make bona look bad here?

i mean the post stands alone as not a good look for bona but this ghug post is... weird
i dont like it

Obviously it should say "scumread" and not townread. Then the whole thing makes sense.

[ghug]

With a godfather in play the value of the innocent scan is only 50% whereas the cop will then 100% die tonight.

Cop getting one more scan in tonight and then I think they have to claim as we are at kill correct or lose. A guilty would be great but three innocent scans really reduce our pool for next daykill.

Obv we could have less than 3 innocent scans depending on if scanned people have been killed and/or cop has been roleblocked.

Agreed. I think the cop has to just push against getting inno scans killed like they're normal townreads.

[rdrivera2005]

Okay okay, bear with me here.

We have 8 people left with a 6-2 spread.

Miskill puts us to 4-2.

What if we decide to vote no-kill today? This doesn't lose us a day, simply delays the decision, but tomorrow we would be at 5-2 with two added benefits:

1. There's no chance we accidentally wagon and reveal the cop today.
2. The cop has an additional night to scan someone

We could all even say that, barring a guilty scan, we would vote for XYZ, which would give the cop maximum knowledge on who to scan.

Say everyone is willing to make me one of the two flips we have. Fine, then, the Cop shouldn't scan me because I'm being flipped regardless, and therefore it would be a waste of a scan.

I really like this idea.

##Vote no-kill

No, we should do this if we get to 4-2 not at 6-2. We should have a regular voting day today and if we miskill we still have a chance of a cop scan.

And cop shouldn't claim with an inno.

I strongly disagree.

Unless I take the bullet here and let you all flip me, there is a decent chance we hit the cop with a wagon today and fore them to claim to save themselves. If that happens, the cop dies with no additional scan.

If we no-kill, we guarantee this does not happen, and guarantee scum has to try to hunt them down tonight. They can post their two scans at EoN and reveal third tomorrow.

It makes no sense to vote no kill at 4-2. Then scum is 40% of the vote and cop is likely outted and dead already.

We do it now, scum is only 2/7 (28.5%) of the vote, and cop should be guaranteed to get a third scan, and most importantly, one on someone who NEEDS to be scanned like ghug, bona, or you.

I'm actually so certain this is the right play, I will not move my vote even under threat of death.

Well, maybe Chaqa is just bad town.

Back to ##vote Ghug

[ghug]

Okay okay, bear with me here.

We have 8 people left with a 6-2 spread.

Miskill puts us to 4-2.

What if we decide to vote no-kill today? This doesn't lose us a day, simply delays the decision, but tomorrow we would be at 5-2 with two added benefits:

1. There's no chance we accidentally wagon and reveal the cop today.
2. The cop has an additional night to scan someone

We could all even say that, barring a guilty scan, we would vote for XYZ, which would give the cop maximum knowledge on who to scan.

Say everyone is willing to make me one of the two flips we have. Fine, then, the Cop shouldn't scan me because I'm being flipped regardless, and therefore it would be a waste of a scan.

I really like this idea.

##Vote no-kill

No, we should do this if we get to 4-2 not at 6-2. We should have a regular voting day today and if we miskill we still have a chance of a cop scan.

And cop shouldn't claim with an inno.

I strongly disagree.

Unless I take the bullet here and let you all flip me, there is a decent chance we hit the cop with a wagon today and fore them to claim to save themselves. If that happens, the cop dies with no additional scan.

If we no-kill, we guarantee this does not happen, and guarantee scum has to try to hunt them down tonight. They can post their two scans at EoN and reveal third tomorrow.

It makes no sense to vote no kill at 4-2. Then scum is 40% of the vote and cop is likely outted and dead already.

We do it now, scum is only 2/7 (28.5%) of the vote, and cop should be guaranteed to get a third scan, and most importantly, one on someone who NEEDS to be scanned like ghug, bona, or you.

I'm actually so certain this is the right play, I will not move my vote even under threat of death.

Oh God, I think I agree with Chaqa.

[rdrivera2005]

No, we should do this if we get to 4-2 not at 6-2. We should have a regular voting day today and if we miskill we still have a chance of a cop scan.

And cop shouldn't claim with an inno.

I strongly disagree.

Unless I take the bullet here and let you all flip me, there is a decent chance we hit the cop with a wagon today and fore them to claim to save themselves. If that happens, the cop dies with no additional scan.

If we no-kill, we guarantee this does not happen, and guarantee scum has to try to hunt them down tonight. They can post their two scans at EoN and reveal third tomorrow.

It makes no sense to vote no kill at 4-2. Then scum is 40% of the vote and cop is likely outted and dead already.

We do it now, scum is only 2/7 (28.5%) of the vote, and cop should be guaranteed to get a third scan, and most importantly, one on someone who NEEDS to be scanned like ghug, bona, or you.

I'm actually so certain this is the right play, I will not move my vote even under threat of death.

Oh God, I think I agree with Chaqa.

Why I am not surprised....

[ghug]

I strongly disagree.

Unless I take the bullet here and let you all flip me, there is a decent chance we hit the cop with a wagon today and fore them to claim to save themselves. If that happens, the cop dies with no additional scan.

If we no-kill, we guarantee this does not happen, and guarantee scum has to try to hunt them down tonight. They can post their two scans at EoN and reveal third tomorrow.

It makes no sense to vote no kill at 4-2. Then scum is 40% of the vote and cop is likely outted and dead already.

We do it now, scum is only 2/7 (28.5%) of the vote, and cop should be guaranteed to get a third scan, and most importantly, one on someone who NEEDS to be scanned like ghug, bona, or you.

I'm actually so certain this is the right play, I will not move my vote even under threat of death.

Oh God, I think I agree with Chaqa.

Why I am not surprised....

I'm swinging back towards thinking you're town, so you really need to come out of your ghug tunnel. When have I ever advocated bad process as scum?

[ghug]

I'm coming to the conclusion that Maniac is scum. He did the fun, weird Maniac thing early, but it's completely gone now, and we're left with a day one vote that could easily have been a bus and a bunch of railing on Chaqa with a read on me that flip flopped wildly in time with a nightkill and a whole lot of nothing outside of it. This isn't town Maniac.

[Chaqa]

Rivera, you’re just wrong about when to vote no kill.

If you want to vote someone today, vote me.

Do not vote ghug. He could be the cop, and if we wagon him that’s bad

I’m hardclaimed VT, if you want to flip someone, it should be me, but the optimal play is to no kill.

[Chaqa]

And I am in no way advocating for anyone to claim not cop. The more people in the mix for being cop, the better.

It’s already only 5/8 of the people. No need to narrow it down more.

[rdrivera2005]

Rivera, you’re just wrong about when to vote no kill.

If you want to vote someone today, vote me.

Do not vote ghug. He could be the cop, and if we wagon him that’s bad

I’m hardclaimed VT, if you want to flip someone, it should be me, but the optimal play is to no kill.

I can't follow your logic. Why today is better then tomorrow? And why didn't you advocate for a no-kill yesterday then?