Mini Mafia 1018 - Race with the Devil [hidden]

[worcej]

So, I've been thinking (no, please, sit down again, no need to flee the building). Why would mafia choose to nk fox?

1) He is a very good player and mafia is afraid of him.
2) He had someone in his reads/pushes that is mafia and they want to eliminate people voting for that person.
3) He had someone in his reads/pushes that is town and they want to miskill someone by obfuscating that.
4) Mafia read his behaviour as PR and prioritised him over others.
5) Mafia threw a coin or dice and it landed fox.
6) Mafia are a bunch of animal/furry hater.
7) More than one of the above. (please with further information)
8) Other than any of the above. (please with further information)
9) Kak you should stop you know exactly why we did it.

Other than that, I would also like to hear your ideas of why mafia would choose fox over yourself.

4 more than anything.

As a member of town, I was picking up 'Fox is a PR or scum' vibes based on how he was playing. He's fairly easy to read for me.

Can you point towards where you got those vibes? I'm curious what I missed.

Not to give away my secret, but VT!Fox pushes cases. When I don't see much case pushing and more treading water, Fox has been PR or Scum.

[Kakarroto]

Flavour jokes aside, celaph and Bob not voting until now kinda makes me wonder. Don't they want to give any information away? Why wait so long? Did they copy from lfischls book?

[Kakarroto]

Hmm, celaph said he wants to sleep over it, even gave some reads. Bob is in an Australian timezone, right?

Would any of them miss a Day shift to Night?

[Kakarroto]

I don't see Bob as someone who would vote as late as we have now. Am I wrong in this assessment? Celaph on the other hand isn't as votefriendly and takes his time, if I remember correctly? At least D1 votes tell the same story.

Am I being paranoid here? I get the feeling Bob is goon and tries to stall out to not give any more information.

[ghug]

I'm bored. ##VOTE Vecna

The fact youre voting me, instead of even considering Bob - while you have stated plenty of time youre weirded out by things, just shows youre only looking for opportunities and give zero fucks about actually solving.

Yow'ch - that was a good counter punch right here!

No it wasn't.

[Bonatogether]

Would you say that Bona is tunneling celaph too hard? Do you feel any maliciousness behind the case(s) he makes?

Bona's argument on me is stupid and annoying, but I suspect that it comes from a towny place. In our early games together he consistently scumread me when we were both town. He also knows that I've historically been my most alignment indicative when I've been pressured. Thus, I can see him being motivated to try and drum up support for my wagon.

The only scum Bona line I'm considering is whether he is intentionally acting less sharp as there have been points that he seems to have missed that I would expect him to have picked up on.

when has town bona ever been sharp

[celaph]

One of Vecna and Bob is scum.

Rivera or Worcej, probably as well.

Feeling more towny on Ghug. Not sure why.

Celaph and Bona town for sure.

Why is bob scum?

Why is Ghug more towny suddenly, while all he has done pretty much is interact with me, and you think im suddenly scum now?

This just feels a bit too lacking of a process, to jump towards the commonly accepted readslists.

nah

Why aren't you willing to speak to your ideas and instead just go dismiss the accusation?

[celaph]

Also, Worcej, I would advise you to be a bit more sparkling if youre town, because atm, you have roughly 6 hours and 16 minutes remaining untill a flash wagon puts you in the ground.

Tbh, this sounds more like Jamie style rhetoric than I normally associate from Vecna. Not sure what to think of it.

[Chaqa]

Why is bob scum?

Why is Ghug more towny suddenly, while all he has done pretty much is interact with me, and you think im suddenly scum now?

This just feels a bit too lacking of a process, to jump towards the commonly accepted readslists.

nah

Why aren't you willing to speak to your ideas and instead just go dismiss the accusation?

Keep reading

[celaph]

Still kinda Sus of Kak moving off fish

I see that, but presumably he gets slaughtered if he actually caused a tie and especially after lfischl flips later. From that mindset I don't know why scum would risk it when he's well positioned to get bussing credit.

[Chaqa]

Still kinda Sus of Kak moving off fish

I see that, but presumably he gets slaughtered if he actually caused a tie and especially after lfischl flips later. From that mindset I don't know why scum would risk it when he's well positioned to get bussing credit.

By that logic, then our PoE is pretty narrow. Here's where I'm at:

Don't vote:
- Bona
- celaph
- ghug

Probably not vote today:
- Bob
- Maniac
- Kakarot

That only leaves worcej, rivera, and Vecna.

[celaph]

I'll share because I want to: ghug, Chaqa, rdr, Bona.

Rdr I can see, but I would be against voting him out soon. I've gotten good vibes from some of his posts and nothing overly scummy.

Would you say you're good at reading Rd?

Historically I think I've been decent at it. There have been a game or two where he was my strongest townread by a mile for simply saying everything I was thinking. This isn't one of those games. That said, I didn't really catch him M67 until he tipped his hand by bussing Vecna though partly that was because of your posts.

See my follow up post on the matter. The part that most reminds me of M67 is that he hasn't been that towny and done a ton on his own so far. It's a little hard to pull out from his lower than average activity, but I can see myself voting for him.

[celaph]

@Bob
@celaph

can you come here and vote for maniac please?

I presume you want me to vote for Maniac's sake and not vote for Maniac, the latter of which I will not do.

##vote rdr

[celaph]

4 hours to go and voting is very close.

Things that interest me:
1 - quite a dew people are scum reading worcej but no one is voting for him
2 - Bona is voting for celaph, but apart from that there is no appetite to make him a wagon today (IMHO for good reasons)
3 - Bona is townreading both the lead wagons, Chaqa and ghug
4 - Bona voting for ghug early on whilst admitting he had no case against him is odd
5 - Chaqa seems resigned to being killed because he just hasn't put any effort into finding scum.

People I won't vote for today: Bob, Celaph, Kakarroto, Rdrivera,
People I would vote for: Chaqa, WorceJ
People I could vote for at a push: Ghug, vecna, Bona,
People I think are handsome: Maniac

Why aren't you willing to vote for Rdr?

[ghug]

Still kinda Sus of Kak moving off fish

I see that, but presumably he gets slaughtered if he actually caused a tie and especially after lfischl flips later. From that mindset I don't know why scum would risk it when he's well positioned to get bussing credit.

By that logic, then our PoE is pretty narrow. Here's where I'm at:

Don't vote:
- Bona
- celaph
- ghug

Probably not vote today:
- Bob
- Maniac
- Kakarot

That only leaves worcej, rivera, and Vecna.

Bookmarking this list for later.

[celaph]

Scum are almost certainly going to wind up on my wagon. Keep that in mind.

Additionally, I'm realizing that scum probably wouldn't have second guessed bussing Fishtown at all, so probably we can't clear Bob, Maniac, or celaph.

Makes me think either Bob or Maniac is a busser.

Can I ask you why you think scum would wind up on your wagon?

I also struggle to see the willingness for Bob or Maniac to force a bus on Sharky when there were easy options to push at the time.

The argument for Bob that I'm mulling over is whether he voted lfischl without expecting him to be the final wagon given the context he voted in.

[ghug]

Scum are almost certainly going to wind up on my wagon. Keep that in mind.

Additionally, I'm realizing that scum probably wouldn't have second guessed bussing Fishtown at all, so probably we can't clear Bob, Maniac, or celaph.

Makes me think either Bob or Maniac is a busser.

Can I ask you why you think scum would wind up on your wagon?

I also struggle to see the willingness for Bob or Maniac to force a bus on Sharky when there were easy options to push at the time.

The argument for Bob that I'm mulling over is whether he voted lfischl without expecting him to be the final wagon given the context he voted in.

The vote put him into a tie for the lead, so I do think it's pretty meaningful, but it also reads very awkwardly.

[celaph]

I posted a TL;DR already but I town Maniac, celaph, and yourself via VCA from D1. If any of you were scum, you could've easily just planted a vote on my slot and flipped me over bussing the shark.

Why am I on this list? I was definitely pushing you over lfischl towards the end. It's certainly a poor look to have missed that, though it doesn't come off as that scummy. I wouldn't expect scum to be looking to give out free town points.

You had the opportunity to stick on me yet didn't. If you want me to look at it the opposite way, that you jumped on Sharky right at the end because you couldn't coordinate a vote-move with your counterpart then let's go for it and find out.

##vote celaph

If you're scum, you're clearly scum with either Bob or rdr.

Well that's also not true. I'm more curious why the fact that my vote lfischl was so late slipped passed you especially after Bona and I yapped about it all night.

[ghug]

celaph (or anyone else who cares to answer), if Chaqa's scum, how likely do you think it is that he lists only townies in his pool of potential votes?

[celaph]

@Bob
@celaph

can you come here and vote for maniac please?

@Vecna
@Bona

would you change your vote to rd? Or if that's not possible, Vecna could you change your vote to celaph?

That way we would have 5 strong players all tied with 2 votes. Lets play a game of chicken and race those wagons into the direction of the cliff! Ohh, the wagonomics!

Why on Earth youy want a wagon on Maniac?

Also, why do you think having 5 different wagons in a small game is better for town?

The thought behind it was, if we take the (probably) 5 strongest players and put them up against each other, put a time limit on it, we will then see how things develop and might catch a mafia with how the voting goes. I mean, that would be quite the juicy menu, don't you think?

Since we are on Day 2 and could use some gut reactions to see where people really stand and don't just talk about things. And also it would kinda fit the theme with the thread and the chicken game of wagons. But it looks like it's not going to happen anyway.

Oh wait, you actually wanted me to vote for Maniac??? That sounds like an awful idea.