Mini Mafia 1018 - Race with the Devil [hidden]

[celaph]

Also, celaph is giving me the same vibes now as when he was battling rdr in lylo

Can you tell me please, which game that was? Or which roles/factions they had at the time? Was it t-t or t-s?

M67. I was t and rdr was s. I could give more context if you want it, but I suspect that you'd get more from asking Vecna about what parts really spoke to him if your curious.

[rdrivera2005]

so just play a town-chaqa game instead of moping about buddy.

I am playing my town game. in a vacuum none of you would be voting me. Not my fault Jamie left me a dumpster fire.

Whilst Jamie is my top scum read, your reads seem genuine. I’d disagree that Bona is 100% town and I wouldn’t have Rdr is my pool of people to vote for today, but I sense you believe in your reads.

My problem is I know you to be so good at playing scum that I struggle to see past the fact you could be manipulating me. I know that given the poisoned chalice of scum!Jamie’s slot you’d just try and survive each day.

I feel that even if you’re town then scum keep you alive so we are forced to kill you at some point. The only way you can turn that around is finding scum and you’re not doing enough to convince me you’re really looking. If you want me to invite you, you have to make a solid case against someone. If you can do that in next 12 hours I will keep and open mind and give you some benefit of the doubt.

I agree at some extent, considering we still have a cop there is other possibilities, specially if we flip the GF.

Anyway, I feel that Ghug or Jamiet/Chaqa are the best choice for today. My other two in that exercise would be Bona and Vecna. I won't vote for anyone in lfischl wagon today and neither Kak.

[celaph]

However I don't like this Chaqa-bona absolute town reading each other. I mean, alright, I remember something of these two being quite fast to read each other, or at least Chaqa for Bona, for what I remember, but this development right now gives me kinda the creeps. Maybe I'm wrong, but that development doesn't feel natural.

I agree that it's obviously eye-catching, but I don't think it's particularly scummy. If they are both scum then they've called attention to themselves and their relationship which will get seriously questioned if either of them flip. We also know that they wouldn't have been able to plan for this as Chaqa wouldn't be able to have participated in the scum chat.

[celaph]

Would you say that Bona is tunneling celaph too hard? Do you feel any maliciousness behind the case(s) he makes?

Bona's argument on me is stupid and annoying, but I suspect that it comes from a towny place. In our early games together he consistently scumread me when we were both town. He also knows that I've historically been my most alignment indicative when I've been pressured. Thus, I can see him being motivated to try and drum up support for my wagon.

The only scum Bona line I'm considering is whether he is intentionally acting less sharp as there have been points that he seems to have missed that I would expect him to have picked up on.

[Vecna]

I am playing my town game. in a vacuum none of you would be voting me. Not my fault Jamie left me a dumpster fire.

Whilst Jamie is my top scum read, your reads seem genuine. I’d disagree that Bona is 100% town and I wouldn’t have Rdr is my pool of people to vote for today, but I sense you believe in your reads.

My problem is I know you to be so good at playing scum that I struggle to see past the fact you could be manipulating me. I know that given the poisoned chalice of scum!Jamie’s slot you’d just try and survive each day.

I feel that even if you’re town then scum keep you alive so we are forced to kill you at some point. The only way you can turn that around is finding scum and you’re not doing enough to convince me you’re really looking. If you want me to invite you, you have to make a solid case against someone. If you can do that in next 12 hours I will keep and open mind and give you some benefit of the doubt.

I agree at some extent, considering we still have a cop there is other possibilities, specially if we flip the GF.

Anyway, I feel that Ghug or Jamiet/Chaqa are the best choice for today. My other two in that exercise would be Bona and Vecna. I won't vote for anyone in lfischl wagon today and neither Kak.

Why do you think the GF wouldnt always bus lfischl in that spot?

[celaph]

I'm a bit lost. Thinking of the progress in the next days, we have only 2 misskills. So thinking from that point, we have 4 chances to catch mafia.

I would like everyone to think about that and ask you to visualise the 4 players you think are most likely mafia. You don't have to say that in the thread, you can keep that for yourself. I'm sure that some of these would change depending on who mafia is going to nk anyway.

Maybe you don't need this advice, but I'm currently big unsure about most of my reads and maybe that's just some advice for myself. But if that helps anyone, please, be my guest and use it. But I'm not feeling a good person to vote just right now and I feel like that's wasted time for town.

I'll share because I want to: ghug, Chaqa, rdr, Bona.

Rdr I can see, but I would be against voting him out soon. I've gotten good vibes from some of his posts and nothing overly scummy.

[celaph]

My problem is I know you to be so good at playing scum that I struggle to see past the fact you could be manipulating me. I know that given the poisoned chalice of scum!Jamie’s slot you’d just try and survive each day.

Would scum Maniac fake this level of paranoia? My guess is no.

[rdrivera2005]

Whilst Jamie is my top scum read, your reads seem genuine. I’d disagree that Bona is 100% town and I wouldn’t have Rdr is my pool of people to vote for today, but I sense you believe in your reads.

My problem is I know you to be so good at playing scum that I struggle to see past the fact you could be manipulating me. I know that given the poisoned chalice of scum!Jamie’s slot you’d just try and survive each day.

I feel that even if you’re town then scum keep you alive so we are forced to kill you at some point. The only way you can turn that around is finding scum and you’re not doing enough to convince me you’re really looking. If you want me to invite you, you have to make a solid case against someone. If you can do that in next 12 hours I will keep and open mind and give you some benefit of the doubt.

I agree at some extent, considering we still have a cop there is other possibilities, specially if we flip the GF.

Anyway, I feel that Ghug or Jamiet/Chaqa are the best choice for today. My other two in that exercise would be Bona and Vecna. I won't vote for anyone in lfischl wagon today and neither Kak.

Why do you think the GF wouldnt always bus lfischl in that spot?

I missed EOD, so I don't have an exact perception on how much lfischl is a sure thing. But for me look it was pretty easy for scum to have swinged the voting for a town (unless Worcej and Jamiet are the other two). In a mini where scum need 3 miskills to win I didn't expect they miss a chance. Obviously they could have been forced and lfischl not voting didn't help them, but I won't go after bussers today. And I also townread the 3 of them. Agree with you that if there is s busser Bob is the most likely, but I don't think we should go this way now.

By the way, I forgot Worcej on my last post, probably change Vecna for him in my 4 list.

[Chaqa]

Bona is my only strong townread at the moment.

Can you explain why? What parts of the game contributed to this?

Hard to explain. I’m very familiar with how he plays and I just generally have an easy time reading some people. I can go back and look for reasons why in a bit.

[BobMcBob]

GM NOTE
Jamie was replaced by me, he did not request a sub. I subbed him out rather than modkill.

Council has advised me that this information should be known.

Reinforces my read that he is scum.

Have GMs ever done this before?

My read of your earlier idea was that Jamie was scum because he planned his outbreak. This quite clearly suggests that he didn't plan it, at least didn't plan for this outcome. Can you clarify why this reinforces your opinion?

the outbreak absolutely couldve been planned
the reason why this makes it look worse (at least to me) is that he didnt ask to be subbed out
which makes a big difference

[Chaqa]

Chaqiet: Im still a little afraid I was being standard cocky Vecna townclearing him way too easily. Chaqa has been a solid solid dud thats playing exactly like his scumgame with no energy but saying just the right phrases where people go "aaaaaaw". I still think jamiet's play was mostly his towngame, but ive been burned before.

I don’t have a scum game, and if I did, this certainly isn’t it, simply by the fact that I’m town.

[Chaqa]

I dont know what it is about Chaqa that makes daykilling him seem like such an appealing proposition.

Every single game

This is fake Vecna.

##Vote Vecna

[celaph]

Celaph, how come you appear so certain im town?

What gives off the impression that I do? For including you in my argument that Fox's argument was bad? The selfless reason is that I just didn't want to see you die at that point particularly to a bad argument. The more selfish reason is that I think my counterargument was stronger when I made it person agnostic.

As for what I think of you currently, I have you as a moderate town read. When you have been active I've liked many of your takes (you've been correct on me which hasn't hurt ). The way that you caught up reminded me of past town Vecna. I suspect that the votes on you are driven by your inactivity yesterday which is a rather weak reason to vote someone as far as I'm concerned.

[Chaqa]

However I don't like this Chaqa-bona absolute town reading each other. I mean, alright, I remember something of these two being quite fast to read each other, or at least Chaqa for Bona, for what I remember, but this development right now gives me kinda the creeps. Maybe I'm wrong, but that development doesn't feel natural.

I agree that it's obviously eye-catching, but I don't think it's particularly scummy. If they are both scum then they've called attention to themselves and their relationship which will get seriously questioned if either of them flip. We also know that they wouldn't have been able to plan for this as Chaqa wouldn't be able to have participated in the scum chat.

Add Celaph to my lock town.

[celaph]

I dont feel Celaph is that much of a meme'r (in before I put him upto it).

[celaph]

I'm a bit lost. Thinking of the progress in the next days, we have only 2 misskills. So thinking from that point, we have 4 chances to catch mafia.

I would like everyone to think about that and ask you to visualise the 4 players you think are most likely mafia. You don't have to say that in the thread, you can keep that for yourself. I'm sure that some of these would change depending on who mafia is going to nk anyway.

Maybe you don't need this advice, but I'm currently big unsure about most of my reads and maybe that's just some advice for myself. But if that helps anyone, please, be my guest and use it. But I'm not feeling a good person to vote just right now and I feel like that's wasted time for town.

I'll share because I want to: ghug, Chaqa, rdr, Bona.

Rdr I can see, but I would be against voting him out soon. I've gotten good vibes from some of his posts and nothing overly scummy.

After further consideration I'll walk this post back a bit. I started trying to rank people and realized that there were too many people that I struggled to rank rdr as townier than to justify this defense.

[Chaqa]

One of Vecna and Bob is scum.

Rivera or Worcej, probably as well.

Feeling more towny on Ghug. Not sure why.

Celaph and Bona town for sure.

[celaph]

@bob @celaph - I note you both haven’t voted yet.

Who’s in your current scum pools?

I should really head to bed soon (ie 2 hours ago), but here are my current thoughts:

Maniac: Good voting history + I like the way that he approached the ghug wagon earlier today. I'd only really suspect him of being scum combined with a ghug GF. I also know from personal experience that Maniac has no problem bussing which is on the back of my mind, but I don't think is that likely atm.

Kak: I felt like Kak's hesitancy at EoD1 was genuine. I'm back to my earlier hypothesis that scum wouldn't tend to post fluff in the way he did D1 and he more generally doesn't seem that concerned with how he looks. His voting looks good as I believe him in that he wasn't wanting a no kill D1 (and frankly if he was scum getting that would have been a death sentence most likely).

Vecna: Spoke about him a moment ago.

Bona: Also touched on Bona earlier.

ghug: I think much of ghug's play has been decent though I think highly enough of his scum game that that alone only merits moderate towncred. His voting history is also quite meh which knocks him down a peg. And I feel like a lot of today has been tied to Jamie which I don't feel confident to speak on. I can certainly see him as scum, but am not eager to kill him.

Chaqa: I had a soft townread on Jamie partially because of how he was playing and partially because it didn't feel like anyone cared if he died. Chaqa has been a mixed bag for me. Not a fan of his Kak vote.

rdr: Has had some good insightful posts though has also had some posts that have just felt weird to me (ex. his post pardoning Kak's inconsistency had weird vibes). Nothing overly scummy and mostly here because of POE given his lack of content.

worcej: I feel similarly about worcej as I did about my earlier rdr statement. I don't think I was wrong in that he has some good posts, but he just doesn't have many and that's partly due to activity. That said, it makes me a little hesitant to hunt for scum here (or with rdr knowing how big of a factor activity is having).

Bob: There is very little here that I find impressive. His mid-D1 was awkward. His analysis has been lack luster. In many ways I find Bona to just be a townier version of Bob.

[celaph]

Atm I'd probably suggest killing from Chaqa down, but I want to sleep on it before I advocate killing lfischl voters (Bob).

[BobMcBob]

However I don't like this Chaqa-bona absolute town reading each other. I mean, alright, I remember something of these two being quite fast to read each other, or at least Chaqa for Bona, for what I remember, but this development right now gives me kinda the creeps. Maybe I'm wrong, but that development doesn't feel natural.

I agree that it's obviously eye-catching, but I don't think it's particularly scummy. If they are both scum then they've called attention to themselves and their relationship which will get seriously questioned if either of them flip. We also know that they wouldn't have been able to plan for this as Chaqa wouldn't be able to have participated in the scum chat.

Add Celaph to my lock town.

why so much for this?
i can see a pretty reasonable line of thought here from celaph, but nothing that screams this is town