Mini Mafia 1018 - Race with the Devil [hidden]

[Kakarroto]

I havent read the last 28 pages, but the last scum are -obviously- ghug and bob

I'm just surprised you know we got a mafia when you haven't read the last 28 pages. Guess these are big flemish pages.

(And yes, this is a joke, I know you at least read EoD.)

[Kakarroto]

[...]

I mean, technically I was lurking on purpose.

It's just real life purposes.

I mean, technically, that's not lurking, it's just being absent.

"Lurking" is a more specific thing. [/quote]

*nods since Jamie absolutely got what I was asking*

[Kakarroto]

[...]
I hope you are not fooling me again....

Well I hope you don't fool me again, although, I guess for quite a while I have been wearing a fools hat.

[Kakarroto]

[...]
I mean, technically I was lurking on purpose.

It's just real life purposes.

I mean, technically, that's not lurking, it's just being absent.

"Lurking" is a more specific thing.

*nods since Jamie absolutely got what I was asking* *repaired quote edition*

[Kakarroto]

One more post and I got #666

[Kakarroto]

Race with the Devil *guitar solo*

[Bonatogether]

This keeps eating at me. What are you trying to say here? Saying it's a scummy vote because breaking the tie in lfischl's favor would appear townie is tautological, because a town celaph wouldn't know that to be the case. Celaph's point is that his vote wasn't ever going to get him any towncred, and thus should be NAI, not that his vote is townie.

On assumption celaph is town, he doesn't deserve anything for his vote. This is unverifiable immediately, so we must keep it in mind but not use it too much.

However, breaking the tie in this situation often will get the breaker towncred. Scum!celaph most likely knows this and therefore, we must consider scum!celaph voting scum!lfischl as for towncredit. If this were to be the case, then celaph would have fooled us. This is bad, and deserves caution. Therefore, this vote must be considered not-town.

Taking these two together (nothing, and not-town), on balance that was a not-town vote, which, given usual patterns of celaph's behavior, is scummy.

He didn't break the tie though? And voting for scum is town-indicative, as you're arguing elsewhere?

He doesn't get cred because he piled on to prevent a tie, so his vote wasn't meaningful.

you're missing the point, all you need to know i'm right

[Bonatogether]

i scumread celaph

yeah i was wondering if eod would change my pesrpective but nah
celaph looks pretty bad
alwhough i wonder if celaph would defend his teammate that blatantly

yes

[ghug]

On assumption celaph is town, he doesn't deserve anything for his vote. This is unverifiable immediately, so we must keep it in mind but not use it too much.

However, breaking the tie in this situation often will get the breaker towncred. Scum!celaph most likely knows this and therefore, we must consider scum!celaph voting scum!lfischl as for towncredit. If this were to be the case, then celaph would have fooled us. This is bad, and deserves caution. Therefore, this vote must be considered not-town.

Taking these two together (nothing, and not-town), on balance that was a not-town vote, which, given usual patterns of celaph's behavior, is scummy.

He didn't break the tie though? And voting for scum is town-indicative, as you're arguing elsewhere?

He doesn't get cred because he piled on to prevent a tie, so his vote wasn't meaningful.

you're missing the point, all you need to know i'm right

No u

[Bonatogether]

ghug
Fox
Kak
Maniac
Celaph
Bona
Bob
Rd
Worcej
Vecna
Jamie

is this one of those lists from last game that bozo was a fan of?

I dunno. It just helps me to put everyone down in order because I can adjust my expectations if I'm overtownreading or overscumreading.

bozo!ghug confirmed

[ghug]

What's the point I'm missing, bona?

[Bonatogether]

Fox, Jaime, Maniac, look good as early lfischl pushers

only those 3?
really?
im sad now

i townread you for other reasons

[Bonatogether]

i really doubt that was the goal there...

You seem convinced that Bona is town.

Interesting.

i think bona just says that stuff for fun

bob gets me

[Bonatogether]

so in that case nobody would be the busser?
or you dont really think anyone was bussing?

I'm a little doubtful having actually looked over the wagons. I kinda think you're all town, but odds are I'm wrong on at least one. Best bet is you.

what are your thoughts on celaph?
too scummy to be scum?

i dont believe town!celaph does that

[Bonatogether]

*Scum read me for defending him all day.

they were tepid and uninteresting defenses

You are right that it was more hedging that lfischl playing similarly to past games was TI than anything else. I'm still surprised you put more emphasis on the vote than my history of messages that make my lack of interest in the vote obvious.

messages can say whatever the fuck you want

with votes you have to act in the interest of your team

[Bonatogether]

Side note: I do find it rather notable that Bona was absent for the 80 minutes before EoD and then appeared rather quickly after the results were shared.

i was out dogsitting you clown

im dogsitting an old dog who has bladder issues so i have to visit 4 times per day (had to wake up at 9am )

last 2 visits were today :)

[ghug]

Side note: I do find it rather notable that Bona was absent for the 80 minutes before EoD and then appeared rather quickly after the results were shared.

i was out dogsitting you clown

im dogsitting an old dog who has bladder issues so i have to visit 4 times per day (had to wake up at 9am )

last 2 visits were today :)

"Visit"

He's crumbing cop.

[Bonatogether]

This keeps eating at me. What are you trying to say here? Saying it's a scummy vote because breaking the tie in lfischl's favor would appear townie is tautological, because a town celaph wouldn't know that to be the case. Celaph's point is that his vote wasn't ever going to get him any towncred, and thus should be NAI, not that his vote is townie.

On assumption celaph is town, he doesn't deserve anything for his vote. This is unverifiable immediately, so we must keep it in mind but not use it too much.

However, breaking the tie in this situation often will get the breaker towncred. Scum!celaph most likely knows this and therefore, we must consider scum!celaph voting scum!lfischl as for towncredit. If this were to be the case, then celaph would have fooled us. This is bad, and deserves caution. Therefore, this vote must be considered not-town.

Taking these two together (nothing, and not-town), on balance that was a not-town vote, which, given usual patterns of celaph's behavior, is scummy.

This post has a number of glaring flaws.
1. Looking at it for whether I deserve credit is a dumb way to look at it, I obviously don't.
2. The fact that you can't verify that I'm town doesn't give you blanket cover to avoid analyzing the situation.
Why don't you think that town celaph would vote like I did? As I mentioned earlier, I don't care how strongly incentivized scum would have been to vote there if town would have also voted there.
3. The alignment of a player has no relevance on whether or not their action was scummy or towny. Just because a town does something doesn't make that action towny and not all actions by scum are scummy.
You've discussed why scum are incentivized to vote there, but that doesn't mean that voting anti-town.
4. You can't just take "averages" of deserved credit, even if you derived it correctly, and use that to dictate how you act.

0) Your post has the glaring flaw of defending an incorrect position

1) All votes deserve some credit, one way or the other.

2) I did?

3) "You've discussed why scum are incentivized to vote there, but that doesn't mean that voting anti-town." Scum votes are presumably anti-town (or pro-scum) by definition?

4) But I am

[Bonatogether]

I'd say a combination of this and because his comments and questions are often surface level, direct, and not insightful giving him the appearance of not trying to solve.

weird post
why point this out?
why do an actual analysis on this chain of posts?

Because I'm not sold on Bona's argument that lfischl is impossible to read. And it's not just because he posts so little. He has had a couple town games with many more posts where he still ends up getting killed quite quickly. I had a theory about his behavior being indicative of a normal, town, lfischl. Obviously I was wrong.

lfischl being read has about a 50% correctness rate and often is a game of 'follow the leader'

[Jamiet99uk]

they were tepid and uninteresting defenses

You are right that it was more hedging that lfischl playing similarly to past games was TI than anything else. I'm still surprised you put more emphasis on the vote than my history of messages that make my lack of interest in the vote obvious.

messages can say whatever the fuck you want

with votes you have to act in the interest of your team

This is the purest thing ever said in this game.