Mini Mafia 1018 - Race with the Devil [hidden]

[Jamiet99uk]

Does anyone want to tell the class why I'm obvtown or do I get to be a D3 wagon?

I'm more inclined to flip Jamie D2 to get an idea on your alignment.

Why do you think Ghug's alignment will be revealed by my flip?

[worcej]

Side note: I do find it rather notable that Bona was absent for the 80 minutes before EoD and then appeared rather quickly after the results were shared.

NAI imo - players usually (unless obscure time zone issues) check in on phase changes and make themselves available around that time.

[Jamiet99uk]

@Worcej:

Come here and participate. It is no longer the weekend.

You have made 10 posts in the entire game so far.

Four of those 10 posts accuse me and Ghug of being scum together, without providing any reasoning for this view. Please would you explain why you hold this (incorrect) position?

And please can you answer this question from earlier?

Thanks Jim.

[worcej]

I'd say a combination of this and because his comments and questions are often surface level, direct, and not insightful giving him the appearance of not trying to solve.

weird post
why point this out?
why do an actual analysis on this chain of posts?

Because I'm not sold on Bona's argument that lfischl is impossible to read. And it's not just because he posts so little. He has had a couple town games with many more posts where he still ends up getting killed quite quickly. I had a theory about his behavior being indicative of a normal, town, lfischl. Obviously I was wrong.

Statements that someone is 'impossible' to read are usually fake in my experience.

[worcej]

@Worcej:

Come here and participate. It is no longer the weekend.

You have made 10 posts in the entire game so far.

Four of those 10 posts accuse me and Ghug of being scum together, without providing any reasoning for this view. Please would you explain why you hold this (incorrect) position?

And please can you answer this question from earlier?

Thanks Jim.

Wait. Your. Turn.

[Foxcastle]

@Foxcastle: What is your current read on Ghug and Vecna, and why, in each case?

They are pretty even. I think it's hard to untangle the motives for Vecna not being around much, which could be because he's busy and it was a weekend, or because he's trying to keep his head down as scum, or because he's keeping his head down because he's tired of being killed by the mafia on N1.

I have been liking ghug's play and it looks very towny (which is of course what scum want!). I'm not sure how much I should read into lfischl's interactions with ghug. They have a couple of very anodyne exchanges that you could imagine scummates making, and then lfischl asserts that you and ghug are on the same team, and I could see that being very scum motivated if ghug is also scum (assuming he'd know you'd flip town, if you flip first, lfischl's has a long-standing premise that you and ghug are on the same team that gives him reason to townread ghug, or if ghug flips first and is scum, he could move directly to you). Or was lfischl just making up an opinion on two loud townies, because it's safer to just not mention your teammates?

[worcej]

Kak is so scummy here and I don't know why others aren't seeing it.

that wouldve looked a lot worse if worcej was scum
as it stands it doesnt look too bad now
i think

Why would it have looked worse if Worcej is scum? I feel like Jamie looks decent for calling out Kak's move to lfischl.
As is, I feel like it looks alright, but mostly because I don't expect that scum Jamie there is in the mindset there of accusing Kak knowing Kak is right.

Recency-bias also would warrant that Kak can bus as needed.

[ghug]

Side note: I do find it rather notable that Bona was absent for the 80 minutes before EoD and then appeared rather quickly after the results were shared.

OMGUS is a good look on celaph

[ghug]

This is another example of Jamie making out comments to be strongly-held reads in an attempt to discredit the commenters.

I am not making any "attempts to discredit". That's your style, Ghug. I'm town and I'm responding to things as I see them.

You are really starting to test my patience with your zealous tunnelling.

To expand on this since Ghug and I don't communicate well, let me be really clear:

1. I accused Bona of trying to earn town brownie points in a suspicious way.

2. Bob said he "really doubted" that this had been Bona's intention.

3. I interpreted this to mean that Bob had a solid townread on Bona (otherwise why would he be so sure that Bona's intentions were pure?). I was interested in this so I responded to Bob, outlining my reaction.

4. This wasn't exactly what Bob had meant, so he clarified his view further, which is absolutely fine.

5. Ghug called me scum.

Yeah, my issue is with 3. You can have an opinion on a specific action district from your opinion on the person who took that action. Bob took issue with your assessment of that post because it was inaccurate, and your reframed it as Bob strongly townreading bona. That's a huge logical leap that ends up muddying the conversation.

[Kakarroto]

[...]

@Kak, you said you was unsmart to think lfischl would have been modkillwd, but on page 21 (that I was re-reading now), you explicitly considered he could be replaced for not voting. Why this doesn't seems to fit? It looks a good way to keep an open door for a teammate to save his ass.

[...]

Hmm, I actually said that. Wow, I'm more big unsmart than I first thought. I guess that thought (modkill) somehow put itself into my mind after I tried to rethink the situation with the stale wagons, rethinking possible mafteams and the situation at EoD.

I concede that, from your perspective (well if you are town), it might look like a mafmove. I can just say that most likely in that situation to reset my thoughts of the situation that change somewhere in my brain happened. I honestly thought of that modkill (instead of replacement) scenario at the time shortly before EoD.

Ah well, guess I have to find out which of my different internal personas I have to blame and punish later.

[ghug]

i saw some questions directed at me at this page. Ill catch up if im still alive tomorrow.

@scum; you may now kill me to negate my hot takes

Something is wrong with Vecna.

[Kakarroto]

Ghug and Jamie super scum.

Dumb worcej town worcej.

It's true.

- but what about low posting worcej?

Does anyone want to tell the class why I'm obvtown or do I get to be a D3 wagon?

I'm more inclined to flip Jamie D2 to get an idea on your alignment.

- I'm not keen on a jamie flip next, but why do you think that would tell us more about ghug? Is this somehow connected to lfischl?

[Maniac]

But since you are here:

Why do you think this? Day one scum kills almost always involve a big bus.

@ Bona - The whole wagon happened in the last 10mins

@ghug - especially if someone is likely to be modkilled anyway. Scum can gain towncred without really losing much at all.

With regard to your second point here, Maniac, which of the Lfischl voters do you most suspect, in that context?

I don't think any of them are good kills tomorrow, maybe as more info becomes available we can reassess. I'm in two minds about of anyone bussed. Sure Ifischl was close to missing min requirements, but we have plenty of subs and so early in the game the subs can come in without having to read hundreds of pages. maybe it an all town kill.

[ghug]

@Foxcastle: What is your current read on Ghug and Vecna, and why, in each case?

They are pretty even. I think it's hard to untangle the motives for Vecna not being around much, which could be because he's busy and it was a weekend, or because he's trying to keep his head down as scum, or because he's keeping his head down because he's tired of being killed by the mafia on N1.

I have been liking ghug's play and it looks very towny (which is of course what scum want!). I'm not sure how much I should read into lfischl's interactions with ghug. They have a couple of very anodyne exchanges that you could imagine scummates making, and then lfischl asserts that you and ghug are on the same team, and I could see that being very scum motivated if ghug is also scum (assuming he'd know you'd flip town, if you flip first, lfischl's has a long-standing premise that you and ghug are on the same team that gives him reason to townread ghug, or if ghug flips first and is scum, he could move directly to you). Or was lfischl just making up an opinion on two loud townies, because it's safer to just not mention your teammates?

Does this mean you think Jamie's more likely to be town than I am?

[Foxcastle]

@Foxcastle: What is your current read on Ghug and Vecna, and why, in each case?

They are pretty even. I think it's hard to untangle the motives for Vecna not being around much, which could be because he's busy and it was a weekend, or because he's trying to keep his head down as scum, or because he's keeping his head down because he's tired of being killed by the mafia on N1.

I have been liking ghug's play and it looks very towny (which is of course what scum want!). I'm not sure how much I should read into lfischl's interactions with ghug. They have a couple of very anodyne exchanges that you could imagine scummates making, and then lfischl asserts that you and ghug are on the same team, and I could see that being very scum motivated if ghug is also scum (assuming he'd know you'd flip town, if you flip first, lfischl's has a long-standing premise that you and ghug are on the same team that gives him reason to townread ghug, or if ghug flips first and is scum, he could move directly to you). Or was lfischl just making up an opinion on two loud townies, because it's safer to just not mention your teammates?

Does this mean you think Jamie's more likely to be town than I am?

I do think that, yes. The logic on lfischl works both directions, though. I don't know lfischl's play well enough to judge, but I think a small interaction with a teammate (asking about your push on Vecna) feels more natural than a random assertion about teammate (claiming Jamie and you are aligned).

[worcej]

@Worcej:


Come here and participate. It is no longer the weekend.

You have made 10 posts in the entire game so far.

Four of those 10 posts accuse me and Ghug of being scum together, without providing any reasoning for this view. Please would you explain why you hold this (incorrect) position?

Now it's your turn.

Anyways - ghug being semi-chum with people he's annoyed with is a personal scum-tell since I've experienced it first hand post our own drama. You two were being overly cordial and I think it was -inducing and reminiscent of that.

Of note, most of your arguments I've seen are 'you're wrong' and nothing much else. Your questions seem to be detracting from ongoing dialogue and are your typical 'fishing for a scumtell'.

[worcej]

[...]
What would you have learned from my flip?

Do you think me lurking on D1, which was over a weekend (when I am almost always a not posting much), is a scumtell for me?

-) your role and stuff

-) that depends, have you been lurking or have you been just absent?

I didn't know the game started until Saturday, primarily because my fantasy football league (that I am commish for) drafted on Friday night and I was hammered.

And then yes, weekends I am notoriously not around for because I struggle to get ample time to work on reading and posting.

[worcej]

[...]
What would you have learned from my flip?

Do you think me lurking on D1, which was over a weekend (when I am almost always a not posting much), is a scumtell for me?

-) your role and stuff

-) that depends, have you been lurking or have you been just absent?

This is a silly post.

What player is going to come out and say "oh yes I have been lurking on purpose!" ?

I mean, technically I was lurking on purpose.

It's just real life purposes.

[ghug]

@Worcej:


Come here and participate. It is no longer the weekend.

You have made 10 posts in the entire game so far.

Four of those 10 posts accuse me and Ghug of being scum together, without providing any reasoning for this view. Please would you explain why you hold this (incorrect) position?

Now it's your turn.

Anyways - ghug being semi-chum with people he's annoyed with is a personal scum-tell since I've experienced it first hand post our own drama. You two were being overly cordial and I think it was -inducing and reminiscent of that.

Of note, most of your arguments I've seen are 'you're wrong' and nothing much else. Your questions seem to be detracting from ongoing dialogue and are your typical 'fishing for a scumtell'.

We weren't being cordial. Jamie was behaving intentionally over the top in the hope of getting me to bite, and I was refusing to bite.

[worcej]

Side note: I do find it rather notable that Bona was absent for the 80 minutes before EoD and then appeared rather quickly after the results were shared.

kinda like lfischl ...

hmmmm

But would two mafia do that exact thing?

Again, NAI - people will make time to look at phase results.