Mini Mafia 1018 - Race with the Devil [hidden]

[Jamiet99uk]

@Jamie - the more you say ‘I’m not scum’ the more I want to vote for you.

You voted me for entirely spurious reasons today, why should tomorrow be any different?

[Jamiet99uk]

But since you are here:

I will claim that lfischl wagon was town driven and any scum on it are entirely in the last 5 or 10 minutes

Why do you think this? Day one scum kills almost always involve a big bus.

@ Bona - The whole wagon happened in the last 10mins

@ghug - especially if someone is likely to be modkilled anyway. Scum can gain towncred without really losing much at all.

With regard to your second point here, Maniac, which of the Lfischl voters do you most suspect, in that context?

[Jamiet99uk]

On assumption celaph is town, he doesn't deserve anything for his vote. This is unverifiable immediately, so we must keep it in mind but not use it too much.

However, breaking the tie in this situation often will get the breaker towncred. Scum!celaph most likely knows this and therefore, we must consider scum!celaph voting scum!lfischl as for towncredit. If this were to be the case, then celaph would have fooled us. This is bad, and deserves caution. Therefore, this vote must be considered not-town.

Taking these two together (nothing, and not-town), on balance that was a not-town vote, which, given usual patterns of celaph's behavior, is scummy.

Why do you think Celaph's vote broke the tie?

Celaph did not break a tie.

[Jamiet99uk]

@Worcej:


Come here and participate. It is no longer the weekend.

You have made 10 posts in the entire game so far.

Four of those 10 posts accuse me and Ghug of being scum together, without providing any reasoning for this view. Please would you explain why you hold this (incorrect) position?

[Jamiet99uk]

Vibe-o meter:

<other entrants>

BobMcBob: Not so great vibes

##vote Bobbles

(##vote bobMcbob)

@Vecna: On page 5 you indicated a scumlean on Bob because of "vibes".

On page 10 you voted for Bob without providing any further commentary.

You have otherwise not mentioned Bob at all.

Could you provide some more information on why you scumread Bob, if you still do?

Secondly, what do you think of Kak hopping on to Bob with you in the last few seconds of the phase when Bob was not a viable wagon?

[Jamiet99uk]

I hope that when I check in again in a few hours, I will see answers to the questions I have just posted. Thank you in advance.

[Kakarroto]

[...]
What would you have learned from my flip?

Do you think me lurking on D1, which was over a weekend (when I am almost always a not posting much), is a scumtell for me?

-) your role and stuff

-) that depends, have you been lurking or have you been just absent?

[Kakarroto]

@Kak, go look at lfischl's M67 where he was town. It strikes me as similarly unimpressive to his play today.

it strikes me as odd how many times celaph pointed out lfischls inactivity as normal
and wanted to kill specifically in the non-lfischl lurkers

- that might be a great observation, I'll guess I have to have a look at that on a reread, if it's true.

Hmm ... if Bob is actually mafia with lfischl here, he might also try to do a low key bus. In that case, would it be correct to go for Bob? Or lfischl?

if were both mafia either is correct
why did you think that was likely though?
and why did you think it likely enough to consider me over lfischl?

- well, I didn't see much from you at the end (ok, I totally blanked out timezones and stuff), other players presented some thoughts about you which made me consider you, I lack the information from last game for other roles so I'm much more unsure, if I'm mafia I would do something like that, lfischl is much more prone of lurking/low participating, also see following quote:

##vote BobMcBob

now lfischl either gets modkilled or he votes worcej

hmmm?
also why would there be a modkill with 3 subs on the board?

- I ... I ... I guess I was big unsmart at the time, I was under the impression lfischl would've been just modkilled if he doesn't vote and isn't the top votee ... very big unsmart ...

I just noticed we made detective's job much harder, can only find one mafia anymore. Ah well, that just means keep quiet until one positive match.

i dont... think thats actaully a bad thing kak

- yeah, thinking about it and having a night to sleep I can it see it now with another perspective. Guess I've put too much value in detective.

Why do you think this? Day one scum kills almost always involve a big bus.

do you think it was BobMcBob?

i get the impression kak really likes this theory...

- Lets just say, at the time, I wanted to explore this theory in my mind. In retrospect, it sounds like it's an easy situation and most of the time, those theories are wrong. Life isn't that easy, and mafia especially.

The only thing I really lament is, that we got not much information from lfischl.

there may be something to draw from what he said about ghug/jamie
does he make that dichotomy between two town, or town and a teammate?
i dont know
but i dont think we can get anything else out of lfischls posts
its better to search other peoples interactions with him or thoughts on him

- hmm ... reading his post again, I think he wants to flip one to get a miskill. If both are town, the first flip would be it, he would get 'credit' for stopping a second miskill. If one is town and one is maf, then if that reveals town, the other maf would be safe(r), if the first flip is maf, then it would be easier to flip the town. Well, it's possible if both are maf, that he wanted to go for towncred, but I don't think lfischl would've done that due to his voting behaviour.

Or am I wrong here?

[Jamiet99uk]

[...]
What would you have learned from my flip?

Do you think me lurking on D1, which was over a weekend (when I am almost always a not posting much), is a scumtell for me?

-) your role and stuff

-) that depends, have you been lurking or have you been just absent?

This is a silly post.

What player is going to come out and say "oh yes I have been lurking on purpose!" ?

[Kakarroto]

Side note: I do find it rather notable that Bona was absent for the 80 minutes before EoD and then appeared rather quickly after the results were shared.

kinda like lfischl ...

hmmmm

But would two mafia do that exact thing?

[BobMcBob]

##vote Kak for the fluff he was filler he was putting out.

@kak, you said that you were fishing for reactions yet a number of your posts so obviously contained no information that it makes me wonder what reaction you were expecting for besides being dismissed/ignored. What conclusions have you drawn from them?

I'm also partial to Maniac and Worcej wagons given their lack of content. lfischl also falls into this category, but his posts felt very normal and so I'm less inclined to vote for him.

maniac for lack of content?
really?
and not lfischl?

i disagree with kak reasoning but its at least fine and i could see someone thinking that

Yes, Maniac provided incredibly little content especially the latter half of that day.

As I noted above, I had commented on my reasons for not wanting to vote lfischl hence his exclusion here despite the obvious lack of content. Rdr is the other name that I didn't bring up mostly because I D1 bias rdr enough that I'm not inclined to kill him.

maniac not only provided more content than lfischl but also more towny content
i would hardly characterise maniac as lurking yesterday
why was your approach so inexplicably different?
why did lfischl get a free pass for lurking just because he always does that?

[BobMcBob]

Kak is so scummy here and I don't know why others aren't seeing it.

that wouldve looked a lot worse if worcej was scum
as it stands it doesnt look too bad now
i think

Why would it have looked worse if Worcej is scum? I feel like Jamie looks decent for calling out Kak's move to lfischl.
As is, I feel like it looks alright, but mostly because I don't expect that scum Jamie there is in the mindset there of accusing Kak knowing Kak is right.

this was saying kak wouldve looked awful if worcej was scum
which i stand by

[BobMcBob]

Maybe. Celaph's vote means nothing, but I think Bona agrees with that. I think you, Fox (partially for independent townread reasons), and Maniac have earned a little while at least.

so in that case nobody would be the busser?
or you dont really think anyone was bussing?

@bob, do you think anyone was bussing?

if anyone on the wagon was bussing it was you
and i dont think thats entirely unlikely

[BobMcBob]

Kak is so scummy here and I don't know why others aren't seeing it.

that wouldve looked a lot worse if worcej was scum
as it stands it doesnt look too bad now
i think

How do you know that Worcej is not scum?

if worcej flipped scum/is scum
was trying to communicate both at once

[Kakarroto]

@kak - could you explain your final vote. I’m assuming you x-posted with Celaph. It looks like you were happy to make it 3-2-2-2 and allow IfishL to then tie it. Why vote bib but suggest/encourage IfishL to vote WorceJ?

Well, I was very suspicious of lfischl being there, lurking in the group of anonyms for a while, waiting for placing his vote. Also, the 3-2-2-2 you are proclaiming wasn't how I saw it, it was 4-3-2 (or was it 4-3-2-2?) ... anyway, 4 on lfischl, 3 on worcej with me being on lfischl. I went down to make it a 3-3-2-2 (or more 2's), since lfischl didn't vote yet. If he doesn't vote, he will be modkilled (or so I was under the impression, totally forgot that he will just be replaced with one of three subs). If he votes in that situation, he could then either vote himself (most likely not), worcej (depending on flip information and I was half alright with flipping worcej at the time, though not preferred) or vote someone else to make it a triple tie.

If he made such a tie, that would pretty much condem lfischl and worcej as mafia, we might not get a flip at the time but very fine information. Though it didn't pan out as I had hoped, since there was only the option to tie with worcej or get the daykill for lfischl now.

Also, I was suspicious of the situation before the switch. You see, jamie was leading most of the time with 4 votes, celaph behind with 3 votes (me being the first to vote celaph) and the 4 voters unlikely to go down from jamie. Now in the time, I got the impression, that jamie isn't maf (or at least appears much less maf) than in my theories. If I had switched at the time, that would've produced a 4-2-2-something situation and jamie would've been a primary daykill target. Maybe that would've given us information, but that wagon felt also stale, sluggish, ... like standing there without getting somewhere, don't know if I describe that correctly but I hope you get the idea.

Also, as I said, I was also suspicious of Bob then, so the two options being two of my top mafia wagons and me trying to be super duper smart (and overlooking some simple stuff) voted for Bob at the situation.

I hope this few words are a sufficient explanation.

[BobMcBob]

(in response to kaks long post)
that makes sense, i can kinda see why you thought the way you did if a few things slipped your mind
also about lfischls jamie/ghug post, im finding it really hard to work out the motivation
if forced to pick id say it probably makes them both a bit more likely to be town
but i doubt lfischl put much thought into the goal of that message, and it was more of a kind of "i need an opinion" post
like i doubt he thought all the way through to how that would pass around cred and stuff, at least not much
which makes it a much harder post to analyse

[Kakarroto]

[...]
Conclusion: Town Lfischl seems to have no fear of voting. Today Lfischl seemed very reluctant to vote. Kak has observed that Lfischl was online a few minutes before EoD. Meanwhile in this game Lfischl lurked and was afraid to vote. This might suggest that either Worcej or Celaph is scum and Lfischl was worried about voting for his team-mate. It doesn't explain why he wouldn't just plonk a vote on me, though.

- just a quick correction: I've seen him shortly after the EoD, I think he went out of that hide mode you can do when browsing the forum.

[Kakarroto]

[...]
What would you have learned from my flip?

Do you think me lurking on D1, which was over a weekend (when I am almost always a not posting much), is a scumtell for me?

-) your role and stuff

-) that depends, have you been lurking or have you been just absent?

This is a silly post.

What player is going to come out and say "oh yes I have been lurking on purpose!" ?

I'm a silly man, doing silly stuff ...

[Vecna]

i saw some questions directed at me at this page. Ill catch up if im still alive tomorrow.

@scum; you may now kill me to negate my hot takes

[Kakarroto]

that wouldve looked a lot worse if worcej was scum
as it stands it doesnt look too bad now
i think

Why would it have looked worse if Worcej is scum? I feel like Jamie looks decent for calling out Kak's move to lfischl.
As is, I feel like it looks alright, but mostly because I don't expect that scum Jamie there is in the mindset there of accusing Kak knowing Kak is right.

this was saying kak wouldve looked awful if worcej was scum
which i stand by

*puts a picture of maniac in his passport* *shows it to bob* Say that again!