M69: Trapped in the Chipotle R&D Lab [HIDDEN]

[brainbomb]

As a community standard we are often stuck in a position of arguing that the way a person plays this game is problematic. I have seen numerous games where player x barely talks and this irritates people into saying a person should not play at all. this is a social deduction game and if a person enjoys playing but lacks time to play we allow this through post minimums.

What we do not police however is personality and thought process. This is a community which welcomes players from every continent on the globe other than antarctica, although there may be a penguin hiding around here

[ghug]

And I absolutely didn't "open the game with insults", you just became pissy because I made your name small.

Grow up.

I was ready to joke with you about making my name small and then you started saying shit like "I said I'd be calm and 'relatively' civil. I didn't say I'd show you any more respect than you deserve." I purport that this is just you being an asshole, and, again, it was a pattern that you repeated with other players throughout the game.

If that's the way you want to play, fine, but don't expect any more respect than you deserve either.

Condescending fuck.

[snowy801]

I would challenge you, Jamiet, to find a single post, or any series of posts, in which I was (consistently) rude to you.

You will fail.

You impose your attitude onto others and let it shape your world view. Very dangerous; you ought to work on fixing that.

[brainbomb]

Hello, let us go ahead and cease this toxic post game flaming we all appear to be engaged in. This is not a good look for our community and is soiling what was a very fun game for mostly all who played. please keep the discussion light and focus on positive topics

[President Eden]

Please take the personal grievances to DMs or, if you think the issue merits Kouncil attention, to the Kouncil for dispute resolution. The postgame thread is not the place for this discussion.

[rdrivera2005]

First, thanks for the GMs for a really fun game. I think it was a bit town side but it more on luck then any inherent flaw in thec stop.

Thanks for the remaining town for carrying me over.

[snowy801]

Insofar as balance goes, I'd say it is "swingy" more than any side favored.

This time, it swung in favor of town. Whether that's attributed to good luck or good play is up to you (probably both). Who knows how it'll go in the future?

[snowy801]

My main criticism of the setup would be in the way that it restricted voting as time passed.

The freedom to vote as you please should be a critical cornerstone of mafia, I think. In most games, it is all town (and therefore anyone pretending to be town) has.

[ghug]

My main criticism of the setup would be in the way that it restricted voting as time passed.

The freedom to vote as you please should be a critical cornerstone of mafia, I think. In most games, it is all town (and therefore anyone pretending to be town) has.

Yeah, I'd echo both of Snowy's posts. Emergent 3P mechanics got kind of icky, but the item madness in general seemed to work pretty well. Town got a bunch of clears, but they were largely due to docsaves and the like, which can happen in any game, and the mafia had at least the theoretical capacity to claim items they acquired, which put a lot of claims in doubt. Look how close Vecna got to falsely clearing himself.

[Chaqa]

The Hot Salsa was supposed to help counteract the 3P and item hoarding in general a bit. Between that the Item Copier, I thought it would be a longer game with more fog in what was happening, but the way the game flowed made it not so.

I think I would rework some things, but the 3P mechanics were pretty core to the setup. Maybe I would make it so that the 3P has a limited number of days they can steal items from wagons on, and also if their vote is negated they don't steal items or something.

[Jamiet99uk]

From a scum perspective it did feel as if the game was somewhat townsided because essentially every town player was a PR, and the large number of items created a situation in which several people were able to essentially clear themselves by the mid-game. Any setup that readily generates townclears is going to be hard for scum.

I do think I was slow in realising the extent to which it benefited the Mafia to keep the 3P around, and to maintain the risk of a sudden 3P victory as a distraction against town's hunt for us.

Ultimately our failure to get two of our NKs in the first few days was a significant setback (which, yes, could happen in any game with a Doctor).

On the other hand I must hold my hands up and say that town played really rather well.

[Jamiet99uk]

* first few nights, obv

[Jamiet99uk]

The Hot Salsa was supposed to help counteract the 3P and item hoarding in general a bit. Between that the Item Copier, I thought it would be a longer game with more fog in what was happening, but the way the game flowed made it not so.

I think I would rework some things, but the 3P mechanics were pretty core to the setup. Maybe I would make it so that the 3P has a limited number of days they can steal items from wagons on, and also if their vote is negated they don't steal items or something.

I actually felt the 3P mechanics were fine. I'd suggest keeping them the same if you run this again.

A couple of other setup comments:

Giving scum a straight-up Item Thief rather than an item copier might be a good tweak. It would also slightly counteract the 3P if you think the 3P to be slightly over-powered (because the item thief could rob the 3P).

The Scooping Chips seemed a very low-power item because it could not be used to recharge an item that was already used up. Perhaps an item that could give +1 charge to an item, even if that item was at 0 charges, would be better?

[Jamiet99uk]

My main criticism of the setup would be in the way that it restricted voting as time passed.

The freedom to vote as you please should be a critical cornerstone of mafia, I think. In most games, it is all town (and therefore anyone pretending to be town) has.

Was that a feature of the *setup*, or merely the outcome of the dynamics amongst the players?

[Chaqa]

The Hot Salsa was supposed to help counteract the 3P and item hoarding in general a bit. Between that the Item Copier, I thought it would be a longer game with more fog in what was happening, but the way the game flowed made it not so.

I think I would rework some things, but the 3P mechanics were pretty core to the setup. Maybe I would make it so that the 3P has a limited number of days they can steal items from wagons on, and also if their vote is negated they don't steal items or something.

I actually felt the 3P mechanics were fine. I'd suggest keeping them the same if you run this again.

A couple of other setup comments:

Giving scum a straight-up Item Thief rather than an item copier might be a good tweak. It would also slightly counteract the 3P if you think the 3P to be slightly over-powered (because the item thief could rob the 3P).

The Scooping Chips seemed a very low-power item because it could not be used to recharge an item that was already used up. Perhaps an item that could give +1 charge to an item, even if that item was at 0 charges, would be better?

Well, I also think mafia utilized the item pretty poorly.

That said, I might just remove/rework it completely. It was originally a different item but I did a few last-minute changes to the setup and replaced it with my backup replenishor item.

There was a fajita veggeis item that was doing that originally, but the setup cut down to 17 and the chips changed to it.

The godfather role also originally had a 1x poison ability that could only be healed by white rice that I removed because I was worried the mafia would be too strong. I also toyed with the Godfather being a Ninja as well, but it seemed too strong.

I think the 5 uses of doctor items were too much too.

[snowy801]

My main criticism of the setup would be in the way that it restricted voting as time passed.

The freedom to vote as you please should be a critical cornerstone of mafia, I think. In most games, it is all town (and therefore anyone pretending to be town) has.

Was that a feature of the *setup*, or merely the outcome of the dynamics amongst the players?

The former.

I am not sure what the solution is. Perhaps a parallel vote during the day to designate a specific player as a non-recipient of the items? But that would just be a bandaid solution...

[ghug]

My main criticism of the setup would be in the way that it restricted voting as time passed.

The freedom to vote as you please should be a critical cornerstone of mafia, I think. In most games, it is all town (and therefore anyone pretending to be town) has.

Was that a feature of the *setup*, or merely the outcome of the dynamics amongst the players?

The former.

I am not sure what the solution is. Perhaps a parallel vote during the day to designate a specific player as a non-recipient of the items? But that would just be a bandaid solution...

Maybe you just don't tie it to being on the wagon? Make the wincon slightly higher (or not exclusive with another team winning) and just put everyone in the pool of potential item recipients, with the 3P getting any of their items. Or make the wincon a little easier and have 3P specify a person during the night whose items they get if they're daykilled.

[Jamiet99uk]

Was that a feature of the *setup*, or merely the outcome of the dynamics amongst the players?

The former.

I am not sure what the solution is. Perhaps a parallel vote during the day to designate a specific player as a non-recipient of the items? But that would just be a bandaid solution...

Maybe you just don't tie it to being on the wagon? Make the wincon slightly higher (or not exclusive with another team winning) and just put everyone in the pool of potential item recipients, with the 3P getting any of their items. Or make the wincon a little easier and have 3P specify a person during the night whose items they get if they're daykilled.

Ah, I think that last one is a good idea.

[worcej]

I barely paid attention after subbing out, but clearly town played damn well to figure it out in the end. Kudos to you all.