M69: Trapped in the Chipotle R&D Lab [HIDDEN]

[BobMcBob]

okay, read up and +1d
im probably gonna tap out now, but some more thoughts before i go
damo is my preferred kill
im gonna sit here and hopefully allow the wagon to remain viable
however id also be happy to see a flip on lfischl, bozo or jamie when i wake up
i would be extremely annoyed to see a vecna or macca flip
hb also seems like a bad plan
food and kak kinda lie in that null area where i dont really think they have much reason to be around, but there are better people to go after
unlisted people are not particularly relevant to flip discussions today imo

Why am I your preferred kill? Have you forgotten my RB claim?

because youre scummy?
your rb claim means something, but not that much really

[damo666]

How does that make any sense? We'd want to not kill them if we expected that

If we mk someone else and these 2 are both town we could lose 4 town by EON.

If we mk one of these at least we save a town modkill.

But then we miss the opportunity of multiple scum deaths.

Maybe your right. I dunno. I'm confused now.

I just wish I had a proper scumread to vote for.

You could always vote for my scumreada, Snowy? I'll be happy to swap back if you do.

No way I vote snowy today. I did earlier today I know but I'm pretty sure that was a mistake. Survival for another couple of days and my suspicions might rise.

[Jamiet99uk]

Chicken-Flavoured Vote Count:

Jamiet99uk (5) - ghug, Maniac, rdrivera2005, Vecna, worcej
bozotheclown (4) - damo666, Jamiet99uk, Jamiet99uk, Macca573
lfischl (2) - Hamilton Brian, Foodcoatings
Maniac (1) - Kakarroto
damo666 (1) - BobMcBob
Kakarroto (1) - snowy801

[Hamilton Brian]

Very much not a fan of the Jamie wagon. I especially dislike Worcej, who admittedly is on a tight travel schedule, having spent very little time here but then drops the vote there. It reeks of convenience.

[ghug]

I don't think I've ignored you at all.

Was there a specific actual question?

That was the question.

You came back to me and snowy both voicing suspicion of you, and you responded only to Snowy's points. This is part of what is now a pattern of being avoidant (see again my having to point out this question several times), though as Snowy points out, you've moved to avoiding by being intentionally obtuse rather than simply ignoring.

Sorry Ghug, I am not trying to be obtuse. But you are not being very clear, from my standpoint, about what you are asking me. The above post does not contain anything I can identify as a direct question.

I have replied to you numerous times and clearly I am not avoiding you. What are the questions or points that you want me to answer? Please can you express this in the form of a question??

Jesus fucking Christ, Jamie. Why did you respond to Snowy's points against you and not mine?

I directly posed the question twice. I pointed you to it again. I just explained why I was asking it and basically gave my own answer because you clearly couldn't be bothered. There's no way you're not aware what the question was at this point.

[damo666]

okay, read up and +1d
im probably gonna tap out now, but some more thoughts before i go
damo is my preferred kill
im gonna sit here and hopefully allow the wagon to remain viable
however id also be happy to see a flip on lfischl, bozo or jamie when i wake up
i would be extremely annoyed to see a vecna or macca flip
hb also seems like a bad plan
food and kak kinda lie in that null area where i dont really think they have much reason to be around, but there are better people to go after
unlisted people are not particularly relevant to flip discussions today imo

Why am I your preferred kill? Have you forgotten my RB claim?

You could have been roleblocked by town.

I realise that but unless townBob RBd me I think voting me is silly.

[Hamilton Brian]

And that’s after I said I’d follow Vecna until I die. Just not loving this.

[ghug]

Ghug is playing kinda like Scum HR plays. He's hounding me for not answering a question, yet despite me asking multiple times for clarification, he isn't asking me a clear question. Then each time I ask him to clarify, he accuses me of dodging him.

It's a clever strategy to try to make it look like your target is being evasive. But if you're town, Ghug, it's really unhelpful.

Jamiet appears eager to push wagons, rather than looking to see where to vote. His presentation comes off as someone looking to convince others, rather than himself.

False.

I am convinced that Bozo is scum and I think that Ghug is, too (that is, either 3P or Mafia).

Why did you specifically think I was third party when the day started?

Why didn't you respond to my minifesto proclaiming your scumminess?

Why's that?

You seem to be taking things seriously and looking carefully at the game state. Scum Ghug.... ehh, I don't know, can just seem less..... invested.

But I'm not sure whether your meta would be different as Third Party.

I'm on my phone on the train home so deep re-reading is hard, but I might have some questions for you in a while.

I have some questions for you that you still haven't answered:

False.

I am convinced that Bozo is scum and I think that Ghug is, too (that is, either 3P or Mafia).

Why did you specifically think I was third party when the day started?

Why didn't you respond to my minifesto proclaiming your scumminess?

You still haven't answered his question, Jamie.

You've now answered one of mine and not the other.

Sorry, what is your outstanding query for me?

Could you re-state it?

I'm on a train.

I asked you why you ignored my minifesto on you but responded to Snowy's suspicions.

I asked you why you ignored my minifesto on you but responded to Snowy's suspicions.

I don't think I've ignored you at all.

Was there a specific actual question?

That was the question.

You came back to me and snowy both voicing suspicion of you, and you responded only to Snowy's points. This is part of what is now a pattern of being avoidant (see again my having to point out this question several times), though as Snowy points out, you've moved to avoiding by being intentionally obtuse rather than simply ignoring.

I can only conclude that Jamie is trolling me.

[damo666]

And that’s after I said I’d follow Vecna until I die. Just not loving this.

Nor am I

[ghug]

Snowy, I get youre somewhat unfamiliair with me, but just take it from me....

This is my town game, and pretty much noone is going to scumread me this game, whatsoever. Trust their read. Im one of those chums whose scumgame suffers because my towngame overpowers it in every way possible.

Both of these things are woefully inaccurate.

So you scum read him?

I'm not sure, but the vibes are definitely south of good, and he's definitely not a bad scum player.

[TheMadMonarch]

That was the question.

You came back to me and snowy both voicing suspicion of you, and you responded only to Snowy's points. This is part of what is now a pattern of being avoidant (see again my having to point out this question several times), though as Snowy points out, you've moved to avoiding by being intentionally obtuse rather than simply ignoring.

Sorry Ghug, I am not trying to be obtuse. But you are not being very clear, from my standpoint, about what you are asking me. The above post does not contain anything I can identify as a direct question.

I have replied to you numerous times and clearly I am not avoiding you. What are the questions or points that you want me to answer? Please can you express this in the form of a question??

Jesus fucking Christ, Jamie. Why did you respond to Snowy's points against you and not mine?

I directly posed the question twice. I pointed you to it again. I just explained why I was asking it and basically gave my own answer because you clearly couldn't be bothered. There's no way you're not aware what the question was at this point.

If I remember rightly, he has responded, albeit indirectly.

Ghug is playing kinda like Scum HR plays. He's hounding me for not answering a question, yet despite me asking multiple times for clarification, he isn't asking me a clear question. Then each time I ask him to clarify, he accuses me of dodging him.

It's a clever strategy to try to make it look like your target is being evasive. But if you're town, Ghug, it's really unhelpful.

[damo666]

@HamB

What's your opinion on Bozo?

[Jamiet99uk]

Ghug is playing kinda like Scum HR plays. He's hounding me for not answering a question, yet despite me asking multiple times for clarification, he isn't asking me a clear question. Then each time I ask him to clarify, he accuses me of dodging him.

It's a clever strategy to try to make it look like your target is being evasive. But if you're town, Ghug, it's really unhelpful.

False.

I am convinced that Bozo is scum and I think that Ghug is, too (that is, either 3P or Mafia).

Why did you specifically think I was third party when the day started?

Why didn't you respond to my minifesto proclaiming your scumminess?

You seem to be taking things seriously and looking carefully at the game state. Scum Ghug.... ehh, I don't know, can just seem less..... invested.

But I'm not sure whether your meta would be different as Third Party.

I'm on my phone on the train home so deep re-reading is hard, but I might have some questions for you in a while.

I have some questions for you that you still haven't answered:

Why did you specifically think I was third party when the day started?

Why didn't you respond to my minifesto proclaiming your scumminess?

Sorry, what is your outstanding query for me?

Could you re-state it?

I'm on a train.

I asked you why you ignored my minifesto on you but responded to Snowy's suspicions.

I don't think I've ignored you at all.

Was there a specific actual question?

That was the question.

You came back to me and snowy both voicing suspicion of you, and you responded only to Snowy's points. This is part of what is now a pattern of being avoidant (see again my having to point out this question several times), though as Snowy points out, you've moved to avoiding by being intentionally obtuse rather than simply ignoring.

I can only conclude that Jamie is trolling me.

Oh, I'm sorry, so your question is simply, why did I think you were the Third Party?

I explained that already.

To repeat my explanation, I thought you were the third party because you made a fake item claim, and you specifically chose one of the items that the Third Party needs to steal. I had that item and knew you to be lying. I thought that you might be trying to get a reaction from the person with the item, to further your (3P) wincon.

I'm not trying to dodge your question - I had already answered it.

[Jamiet99uk]

Jesus fucking Christ, Jamie. Why did you respond to Snowy's points against you and not mine?

I have repeatedly responded to you, and I have engaged with you at length.

Please do not take the name of your Lord and Saviour in vain.

[ghug]

@ghug @Maniac @rdr

If you think lfischl would be a mk you should move off Jamie. With 3 votes n Jamie he is almost forced into voting lfischl.

I don't really mind a lurker dying if I can't get Jamie.

Why are you encouraging this sort of voting consideration this early in the day?

[TheMadMonarch]

Ghug is playing kinda like Scum HR plays. He's hounding me for not answering a question, yet despite me asking multiple times for clarification, he isn't asking me a clear question. Then each time I ask him to clarify, he accuses me of dodging him.

It's a clever strategy to try to make it look like your target is being evasive. But if you're town, Ghug, it's really unhelpful.

Why did you specifically think I was third party when the day started?

Why didn't you respond to my minifesto proclaiming your scumminess?

I have some questions for you that you still haven't answered:

I asked you why you ignored my minifesto on you but responded to Snowy's suspicions.

That was the question.

You came back to me and snowy both voicing suspicion of you, and you responded only to Snowy's points. This is part of what is now a pattern of being avoidant (see again my having to point out this question several times), though as Snowy points out, you've moved to avoiding by being intentionally obtuse rather than simply ignoring.

I can only conclude that Jamie is trolling me.

Oh, I'm sorry, so your question is simply, why did I think you were the Third Party?

I explained that already.

To repeat my explanation, I thought you were the third party because you made a fake item claim, and you specifically chose one of the items that the Third Party needs to steal. I had that item and knew you to be lying. I thought that you might be trying to get a reaction from the person with the item, to further your (3P) wincon.

I'm not trying to dodge your question - I had already answered it.

Yep, He said it!

Why is that the question you ask jamiet? You have reasons to think Ghug is 3P specifically?

Seems like a pretty strange jump to straight away think of it interupting an item theft...

Ok I guess it's time for me to explain.

Ghug made an item claim which I can verify was a definite lie.

My guess is that he's the Third Party and was looking for reactions so he knew who to target to go after the items he needs.

[ghug]

Fish wagon definitely is weak and comes off as people just voting lurkers.

Moving to Jamie voters next and this caught my attention.

Yeah, it's just too convenient.

Jamie softed that he knew I was "lying" about the chicken yesterday but he had no interest in fully claiming it. Suddenly the fact that I've claimed roleblocked is enough for him to claim, and he's all ready to explain the roleblock as scum also thinking I'm third party. That's not a logical thought progression.

On the other hand, ghug makes a joke about having Jamie's item as the game opens. Jamie believes I'm serious, for whatever reason, and thinks I'm third party fakeclaiming an item (even if you think I was serious, concluding I'm specifically 3P rather than just scum in general makes no sense unless you know something). His team roleblocks me, and then he helpfully volunteers this information to the town, but makes no case either way on whether i should be killed immediately or not.

The scum explanation makes significantly more sense.

##VOTE Jamie

@ghug - can you point me at when Jamie softs that he has chicken? The thought progression you present makes sense, contingent on this.

He called me a liar repeatedly day one, and when asked told me that I knew while refusing to tell anyone else. It was enough for me to suspect that he had the chicken at the time, and now it seems pretty clear that that's what he was getting at.

[ghug]

garbage logic
macca likely town
same with rdr actually
neither should be on the block today
maybe someone actually scummy like yourself?

I may be scummy (I don't think I am) but I an not scum.

Why is Macca likely town (other than you can say that of anyone). In other words why is the probability of Macca being town > 2/3?

ooh look at me im damo and im throwing math into places its not relevant to seem on brand
macca is likely town because their play looks very much like their towngame, and not much like their scumgame
it is very consistent with how town! macca would act
now why the heck did you need to throw in a random 2/3 in a simple question to ask me to expand on my read?

Why are you so scared of numbers? It's not like you're experiencing the American education system.

Why does Macca's play look like their towngame?

[Kakarroto]

that jamie-bozo dialog makes me even more dislike jamie in this game (to make it clear, I respect you as a person, but I think you are playing an evil faction this game). First I was thinking like in the game jamie was pr that my feeling is just off, but I can't see that with him having the chicken as an item. And if he is lying about that in a way that makes him bash heads with ghug right now, that is just anti-town.

The Jamie/Ghug thing is interesting.

If I understand it correctly Ghug softed/joked he had chicken. Jamie has chicken and deduced from that that Ghug is 3P.

Jamie thinks 3P!Ghug would fake claim an item he needs so that the real holder of that item will CC and Ghug can then snatch it. I disagree with this. 3P!Ghug would I believe be much more patient and wait for people to start claiming items further down the track.

What’s interesting is why Jamie appears to be 3P hunting so early and also his ‘error’ in forgetting that the 3P can’t be NK. It’s common for 3Ps to have NK immunity so I simply don’t believe that Town!Jamie would make such an error which points to Jamie being scum.

Whilst I don’t buy into Ghug being 3P perhaps if Jamie is scum and they believe Ghug is 3P then the roadblock makes sense. And Ghug did end up on Bona perhaps to catch their item even though Ghug was scum reading me (the counter wagon).

I already scum read Jamie so quite happy to ##vote Jamie.

@Ghug, if Jamie’s wagon runs away would you be prepared to step off it. On the off chance Scum!Jamie is right and you’re the 3P.

- why can I mostly only agree with this? why do you make so much sense here? where have you been? are you just trying to look useful again and go into rest-mode again?

The odd thing is, if the Scum also suspected Ghug was 3P, why only roleblock him, and not kill him?

Weird.

Theres also a roleblock item. Another very quick assumption.

Maybe jamiet is scum that is very worried that Ghug is 3p?

My first impression of the chicken claim was "ghug is probably trying to fuck with the 3P". Yet it was acted on by some people that really took it literally?

Iiiin-teresting

- Vecna growing more and more on me

i mean if vecnas seeing it too i see very little reason to hold off on a vote here
##vote jamie
im really vibing with vecna here
and the fact that he has notably different reasons for reaching the same result makes me feel better about it
either that or hes super good at pocketing me

- maybe I should just vote jamie here, looks like maniac isn't going to happen today and that last post made me doubt anyway. Well let's see first what the rest of the ... 30 pages brings. Oh my, I need to increase my speed.

[Jamiet99uk]

@ghug @Maniac @rdr

If you think lfischl would be a mk you should move off Jamie. With 3 votes n Jamie he is almost forced into voting lfischl.

I don't really mind a lurker dying if I can't get Jamie.

Why are you encouraging this sort of voting consideration this early in the day?

"This early in the day" ?

There are only a few hours left, Ghug. It's not early in the day at all whatsoever no no.