M69: Trapped in the Chipotle R&D Lab [HIDDEN]

[bozotheclown]

Bozo is highly suspicious. Look at this:

u-uwu?

snowy only posts this early when he is mafia.

##VOTE snowy

Worcej already feeling pretty scummy with just his few initial posting.

Possible, and Jamie could be his teammate.

I think worcej and Jamie are my top scum suspects after snowy.

My early vote for snowy was a reference to M1017. However, in M1017 snowy questioned everyone who voted for him D1, and him not doing the same here makes me think it is possible he is scum this time.

So here we see an early vote for Snowy apparently based on meta from a previous game. After this vote, on Page 7 Bozo continues to describe Snowy as his top scumread, and a few pages later he again repeats his scumread on Snowy, where his vote had remained.

Contrast this with Bozo's early posts mentioning Foodcoats, of which there are only two very short ones both on page 11:

I’m lost

Bona who are you voting

It is uncharacteristic for you to be "lost".

Actually I’ll sheep snowy instead

##VOTE Vecna

Baah baah

Why snowy? It looks like you are trying to pocket him.

And then not long after that, we had Bozo's survey / reads ranking list which was on page 14:

Here is a survey/challenge for everyone: see how good your initial reads are by ranking all 17 players from town to scum. It is only 12 hours into the game, but I think this will be tougher for the mafia than the town.

Here is my list:

1. bozo
2. Kakarroto
3. BobMcBob
4. cel​aph
5. Bonatogether
6. Vecna
7. ghug
8. HB
9. lfischl
10. damo
11. rdrivera
12. Macca
13. snowy
​14. Maniac
15. Jamie
16. foodcoats
17. worcej

So suddenly in the space of just a few pages, Snowy has dropped from Bozo's #1 scumread to his #5 scumread, while somehow Foodcoats is now Bozo's second-highest scumread, for reasons which were not clear at all, and whilst Bozo's vote remained on Snowy. Bozo then hardly mentioned Foodcoats again the whole of D1, despite Food apparently being Bozo's second-highest scumread (yeah right).

I remain of the view that Bozo's list was fake and was simply an attempt to give the impression of Bozo's normal meta as "that guy that does pointless surveys on D1".

Highly suspicious.

Bozo is scum.

I have stated why I voted for snowy, and you have ignored it and misrepresented my reason here. Regardless, I voted for snowy over 10 hours before posting that list, and I had not changed my vote since my initial vote. You, Maniac, foodcoats, and worcej, who were the bottom 4 on my list, had 0 combined posts at the time I voted for snowy. Considering this, do you still find it inconsistent that I posted that list without changing my vote to one of the 4 players below snowy, and if so, why?

[bozotheclown]

i cant spot where the question for bozo is, but i agree

What do you agree with, specifically?

[bozotheclown]

There was not much participation in my survey request. The mafia have a good reason to avoid going on record with a full reads ranking, but too many town ignored my request and let the mafia off the hook.

Here was my list:

1. bozo
2. Kakarroto
3. BobMcBob
4. cel​aph
5. Bonatogether
6. Vecna
7. ghug
8. HB
9. lfischl
10. damo
11. rdrivera
12. Macca
13. snowy
​14. Maniac
15. Jamie
16. foodcoats
17. worcej

Numbers 14, 15, and 17 all started scum reading me after I posted this list, I don't think that was a coincidence.

Bozo, can you explain the reasons why your townread on Kakarroto is so strong?

How come Damo is null? He has done quite a lot you can read into.

Why did I not move whatsoever ever since your first list, even though I participated quite a lot in between?

That list was 12 hours into the game, so none of my reads were particularly "strong", but I liked Kakarroto initial post.

I reposted my list N1 to make a point, it was not an updated list. The point I was making was that 3 of my top scum reads ended up voting of me D1 after I posted that list. I was not saying this reinforced my scum read of them, but pointing out that, since some or all may be town, that town players tend to scum read players that scum read them. This was an example of why the mafia would prefer to avoid putting out that kind of list 12 hours into the game.

[bozotheclown]

I find it implausible that 11 hours into the game, Bozo had good reason to believe that Bona was townier than Vecna, that Damo was scummier than Lfischl, or that Rdrivera was townier than Macca (etcetera).

His Page 14 "town to scum" ranking was as fake as a £9 note. The way Foodcoats just became one of Bozo's biggest scumreads on the basis of one or two short posts is deeply sus. His reasoning for making Worcej his top scumread over Snowy and Foodcoats, whilst still voting for Snowy, seemed almost non-existent.

Fake fake fake fake fake.

If you had different read 12 hours into the game, I would like to have seen you post them then. damo and rdrivera had not posted yet when I posted that list, the players above them were town reads and the players below them were scum reads. Criticizing my initial reads a day later, specifically about damo and rdrivera now that they have posted, does not make any sense.

[Jamiet99uk]

I find it implausible that 11 hours into the game, Bozo had good reason to believe that Bona was townier than Vecna, that Damo was scummier than Lfischl, or that Rdrivera was townier than Macca (etcetera).

His Page 14 "town to scum" ranking was as fake as a £9 note. The way Foodcoats just became one of Bozo's biggest scumreads on the basis of one or two short posts is deeply sus. His reasoning for making Worcej his top scumread over Snowy and Foodcoats, whilst still voting for Snowy, seemed almost non-existent.

Fake fake fake fake fake.

If you had different read 12 hours into the game, I would like to have seen you post them then. damo and rdrivera had not posted yet when I posted that list, the players above them were town reads and the players below them were scum reads. Criticizing my initial reads a day later, specifically about damo and rdrivera now that they have posted, does not make any sense.

No Bozo, that's the point though, isn't it.

At 12 hours into the game, when some people had not done anything of substance, there was no basis on which to rank every single player from town to scum. There was not sufficient information to meaningfully do so.

Yet you purported to be able to do so.
You demanded everyone else produce a similar ranked list.
And, you criticised anyone else who did not immediately follow suit.

Now you are admitting, apparently, that it was not a very meaningful task and that your own list was a load of trash.

Your list was fake. Your task was fake. You are fake. You are scum.

[Jamiet99uk]

I have stated why I voted for snowy, and you have ignored it and misrepresented my reason here. Regardless, I voted for snowy over 10 hours before posting that list, and I had not changed my vote since my initial vote. You, Maniac, foodcoats, and worcej, who were the bottom 4 on my list, had 0 combined posts at the time I voted for snowy. Considering this, do you still find it inconsistent that I posted that list without changing my vote to one of the 4 players below snowy, and if so, why?

Yes.

Your list told us that you had four scumreads above Snowy. Foodcoats in particular had become your #2 scumread on the basis of very little, it appears, and Worcej was your #1 scumread but you'd only made one clear post saying why your suspected him at all (at that point). It seems very strange that you had not updated your vote as your reads had, apparently, significantly changed since you had cast it.

[bozotheclown]

I find it implausible that 11 hours into the game, Bozo had good reason to believe that Bona was townier than Vecna, that Damo was scummier than Lfischl, or that Rdrivera was townier than Macca (etcetera).

His Page 14 "town to scum" ranking was as fake as a £9 note. The way Foodcoats just became one of Bozo's biggest scumreads on the basis of one or two short posts is deeply sus. His reasoning for making Worcej his top scumread over Snowy and Foodcoats, whilst still voting for Snowy, seemed almost non-existent.

Fake fake fake fake fake.

If you had different read 12 hours into the game, I would like to have seen you post them then. damo and rdrivera had not posted yet when I posted that list, the players above them were town reads and the players below them were scum reads. Criticizing my initial reads a day later, specifically about damo and rdrivera now that they have posted, does not make any sense.

No Bozo, that's the point though, isn't it.

At 12 hours into the game, when some people had not done anything of substance, there was no basis on which to rank every single player from town to scum. There was not sufficient information to meaningfully do so.

Yet you purported to be able to do so.
You demanded everyone else produce a similar ranked list.
And, you criticised anyone else who did not immediately follow suit.

Now you are admitting, apparently, that it was not a very meaningful task and that your own list was a load of trash.

Your list was fake. Your task was fake. You are fake. You are scum.

I did not say anything like that about my list, they were my reads at the time I posted them.

I think it could have been useful if more players participated. It may still prove to be useful, it certainly provoked a reaction from you.

[Jamiet99uk]

Jamiet appears eager to push wagons, rather than looking to see where to vote. His presentation comes off as someone looking to convince others, rather than himself.

False.

I am convinced that Bozo is scum and I think that Ghug is, too (that is, either 3P or Mafia).

[bozotheclown]

I have stated why I voted for snowy, and you have ignored it and misrepresented my reason here. Regardless, I voted for snowy over 10 hours before posting that list, and I had not changed my vote since my initial vote. You, Maniac, foodcoats, and worcej, who were the bottom 4 on my list, had 0 combined posts at the time I voted for snowy. Considering this, do you still find it inconsistent that I posted that list without changing my vote to one of the 4 players below snowy, and if so, why?

Yes.

Your list told us that you had four scumreads above Snowy. Foodcoats in particular had become your #2 scumread on the basis of very little, it appears, and Worcej was your #1 scumread but you'd only made one clear post saying why your suspected him at all (at that point). It seems very strange that you had not updated your vote as your reads had, apparently, significantly changed since you had cast it.

I don't move my vote around so that it always represents my top scum read, and I do not think anyone else does that either, including you.

[bozotheclown]

Why is that the question you ask jamiet? You have reasons to think Ghug is 3P specifically?

Seems like a pretty strange jump to straight away think of it interupting an item theft...

Ok I guess it's time for me to explain.

Ghug made an item claim which I can verify was a definite lie.

My guess is that he's the Third Party and was looking for reactions so he knew who to target to go after the items he needs.

Are you saying here that ghug claimed an item you have?

[BobMcBob]

i think it should be noted at this point, because currently i am the only one with access to this information, that macca is in fact spending time working on an assignments (something i have thoroughly neglected thus far

it is wholly out of character, but they were being honest

[ghug]

Jamiet appears eager to push wagons, rather than looking to see where to vote. His presentation comes off as someone looking to convince others, rather than himself.

False.

I am convinced that Bozo is scum and I think that Ghug is, too (that is, either 3P or Mafia).

Why did you specifically think I was third party when the day started?

Why didn't you respond to my minifesto proclaiming your scumminess?

[BobMcBob]

i cant spot where the question for bozo is, but i agree

What do you agree with, specifically?

the bit where youre scum
i mainly had other reasons, and i think jamie was a little too enthusiastic, but he makes decent points about your reads being strange

[bozotheclown]

I reviewed celaph's D1 posts to see if he crumbed anything that would get him NKed, and in his first post he seemed to be using "E. coli" to represent all mafia, even though "E. coli" is just the GF:

Flavor is incredibly hype. Time to eradicate some E. coli.

Also, just an FYI but I can't reliably be on for EoD as I'll be at work.

He also does it again later:

...
I missed my message

To Jamiet:

From that I infer that you did intend to vote for ghug. What made you choose him, of the 16 people left in the game?

"Left"?

Who has already been eliminated?

Anyway I think it's usually a good idea to vote for Ghug on D1 unless someone is obviously lurking.

Can you speak to your thought process on the last line?

Even if ghug merits a D1 fear kill (I don't think he does), having such a default position makes it really easy for e coli to get away with being lazy.

In the item descriptions, only the cop and JOAT items refer to "E. coli", and only the cop item refers to the "E. coli" mafia member. This could have been a cop crumb or a mistake celaph made because he had just read the cop item description. In any case, we need to keep in mind that celaph could have been the cop, so someone claiming cop could be mafia. If the mafia have the cop item, they could even have a scum claim a guilty on another scum to try to get a false town clear.

[bozotheclown]

i cant spot where the question for bozo is, but i agree

What do you agree with, specifically?

the bit where youre scum
i mainly had other reasons, and i think jamie was a little too enthusiastic, but he makes decent points about your reads being strange

What reads of mine did you find strange?

[Maniac]

The Jamie/Ghug thing is interesting.

If I understand it correctly Ghug softed/joked he had chicken. Jamie has chicken and deduced from that that Ghug is 3P.

Jamie thinks 3P!Ghug would fake claim an item he needs so that the real holder of that item will CC and Ghug can then snatch it. I disagree with this. 3P!Ghug would I believe be much more patient and wait for people to start claiming items further down the track.

What’s interesting is why Jamie appears to be 3P hunting so early and also his ‘error’ in forgetting that the 3P can’t be NK. It’s common for 3Ps to have NK immunity so I simply don’t believe that Town!Jamie would make such an error which points to Jamie being scum.

Whilst I don’t buy into Ghug being 3P perhaps if Jamie is scum and they believe Ghug is 3P then the roadblock makes sense. And Ghug did end up on Bona perhaps to catch their item even though Ghug was scum reading me (the counter wagon).

I already scum read Jamie so quite happy to ##vote Jamie.

@Ghug, if Jamie’s wagon runs away would you be prepared to step off it. On the off chance Scum!Jamie is right and you’re the 3P.

[BobMcBob]

There was not much participation in my survey request. The mafia have a good reason to avoid going on record with a full reads ranking, but too many town ignored my request and let the mafia off the hook.

Here was my list:

1. bozo
2. Kakarroto
3. BobMcBob
4. cel​aph
5. Bonatogether
6. Vecna
7. ghug
8. HB
9. lfischl
10. damo
11. rdrivera
12. Macca
13. snowy
​14. Maniac
15. Jamie
16. foodcoats
17. worcej

Numbers 14, 15, and 17 all started scum reading me after I posted this list, I don't think that was a coincidence.

Bozo, can you explain the reasons why your townread on Kakarroto is so strong?

How come Damo is null? He has done quite a lot you can read into.

Why did I not move whatsoever ever since your first list, even though I participated quite a lot in between?

That list was 12 hours into the game, so none of my reads were particularly "strong", but I liked Kakarroto initial post.

I reposted my list N1 to make a point, it was not an updated list. The point I was making was that 3 of my top scum reads ended up voting of me D1 after I posted that list. I was not saying this reinforced my scum read of them, but pointing out that, since some or all may be town, that town players tend to scum read players that scum read them. This was an example of why the mafia would prefer to avoid putting out that kind of list 12 hours into the game.

this stood out to me
i was about to post a long and overly critical post about it but toward the end i realised id missed a rather crucial line and my post was mostly moot

[BobMcBob]

What do you agree with, specifically?

the bit where youre scum
i mainly had other reasons, and i think jamie was a little too enthusiastic, but he makes decent points about your reads being strange

What reads of mine did you find strange?

were talking about this in the context of a post jamie made entirely about your reads being strange, have a guess

[BobMcBob]

What do you agree with, specifically?

the bit where youre scum
i mainly had other reasons, and i think jamie was a little too enthusiastic, but he makes decent points about your reads being strange

What reads of mine did you find strange?

were talking about this in the context of a post jamie made entirely about your reads being strange, have a guess

[BobMcBob]

whoops, i dont think ive managed to double post on the forum before...