M68: Guns N' Roses GAMETHREAD [hidden]

[Hamilton Brian]

@HB when would you made the shift from "let me just stay on food for luls" to "I actually think this man is scum", and what was the impetus for that change, if it existed?

Decent question. I think it may have rested there softly, and throughout the day I was trying to see if a vote would go anywhere else. I did come out toward the beginning and suggested bb and chaqa would not be optimal kills to me. For food, just not sure; a lot of uncertainty. Wondering about their analysis; is there some sound analysis? And then they didn't seem overly concerned about themselves being a wagon. So, for a D1 flip, it's unfortunate for food, but there will be something gained by it by looking at the voting (maybe).

What made you lean hard against PE to then come around to "ghug is scum?"

[brainbomb]

I dont think being tedious and complex are valid reasons to scumread content. That seems like an argument that didnt land. But nobody is expecting johnny to display reasoning because of how new he is. So I think our bar is just set so low that nobody cares whether johnny is openly scummy or not

[rdrivera2005]

Here is a few questions id like every person to answer before night expires

A. does Johnny seem coached in his game awareness as of N1, and if so, by whom? whose posts do his resemble?


B. Does Johnny day 1 seem the same as Johnny N1


C. Are the contradictory statements and clear omissions in Johnnys play a newb side effect or are they potentially just scum being openly scummy.

I will state my opinion and I would probably be bashed about it but I don't care.

If any town have a gun he should shoot Johnny. If he is scum it's a dangerous deep threat and if he is town he is a huge liability as scum will never NK him and him at Milo will be scum dream scenario.

[snowy801]

I will state my opinion and I would probably be bashed about it but I don't care.

If any town have a gun he should shoot Johnny. If he is scum it's a dangerous deep threat and if he is town he is a huge liability as scum will never NK him and him at Milo will be scum dream scenario.

Would you argue, rdrivera, that Johnny is more of a liability than emc or macca, assuming they are town, or a deep threat if not?

What makes Johnny more dangerous in that regard?

@bb I do like your "town" catch. I have some thoughts on that, but I'd rather hear what Johnny has to say about it. Johnny?

[brainbomb]

Also if I were a mafia this night, I don't think I would be spending time complaining about how much you talk. My time would be much better served predicting who has the rose which night, though I had thought to myself pre-game that if optimal play for town is to take rose, they would probably do it early, and so the best play for scum would be to take gun n3. These things are hard to predict, but just a gut hunch.

I do not believe scum would be complaining.
rather that they may be EXPLAINING, LAMENTING, or SAVORING. which is more why I thought Johnny might be reading his teams discussion and decided yes, bb is very anti town, thats a great way to justify my vote which previously had not articulated properly the reasoning.

[snowy801]

What made you lean hard against PE to then come around to "ghug is scum?"

I never really thought ghug is scum, I was just sheeping Eden, as Jamiet so elegantly puts.

I think my elaboration on why I thought PE is scum needs no further detail.

[brainbomb]

the nuance you just described is very deep in answering the distinction between johnnys opinion of my play and of jamies play being high in volume. Why would johnny be of your opinion on a matter like this?

[ghug]

And the D1 vote was either TvT or TvS. And I am leaning more toward it was T v S with Eden playing a candid role in shifting votes off of you.

Are you scum? Possibly?
If you are, is Eden? Hmm...
And if Eden is, does that make snowy who followed PE to ghug?

Yeah, it's not gonna be that easy.

Not that easy why?
Are you convinced those two top wagons were T v T?

Not convinced, but I believe it. Even if they weren't, catching scum isn't going to be that straightforward.

[snowy801]

the nuance you just described is very deep in answering the distinction between johnnys opinion of my play and of jamies play being high in volume. Why would johnny be of your opinion on a matter like this?

Because it's true, I presume, if Johnny does indeed feel as I do.

[brainbomb]

I do believe what may potentially put off someone from you rather than Jamiet is that Jamiet is almost always responding to someone else, where you tend to go on a soliloquy. I don't think you'll find many instances where Jamiet has more than two posts stringed together in a row.

Why would johnny think that both myself and jamie were scum and there is little to no documented explanation as to why he scumreads jamie? before we get carried away he accused jamie at one point of not reading the setup when it was actually ME who hadnt read the setup.

I ppondered at that point if pregame the maf team had directed johnny to stay focused on players like jamie who are easy to agitate and derail. or if johnny was told that bussing is fine and its a good idea to bus occasionally.

[brainbomb]

the nuance you just described is very deep in answering the distinction between johnnys opinion of my play and of jamies play being high in volume. Why would johnny be of your opinion on a matter like this?

Because it's true, I presume, if Johnny does indeed feel as I do.

I see absolutely no reason why Johnny would feel exactly the same way you do on this matter.

[snowy801]

Why would johnny think that both myself and jamie were scum and there is little to no documented explanation as to why he scumreads jamie? before we get carried away he accused jamie at one point of not reading the setup when it was actually ME who hadnt read the setup.

I ppondered at that point if pregame the maf team had directed johnny to stay focused on players like jamie who are easy to agitate and derail. or if johnny was told that bussing is fine and its a good idea to bus occasionally.

I don't know if that was a question for me, but I think at this point you're more thinking to yourself? I can't necessarily speak to Johnny's inner thoughts and I think this question is best answered by him.

[ghug]

I don't know who to shoot.

I want to appeal to you, since I believe you have a gun, once more: shoot e.m.c

It may be tempting to be the hero. To catch the bad guy with his pants down - wham, bam, thank you m'am.

But at the end of the day, I think we will all agree that we simply do not have any degree of certainty on who scum is (though once I say this a dozen geniuses will emerge into the woodwork on how them and them alone have the answers to our woes and everyone else who is equally certain as them is wrong)

So then our best shot is the one which best illuminates town. Three comes to mind:

e.m.c. - we said we'd shoot him if he did exactly what he did, and we should follow through
brainbomb - gives us certainty on the nature of the top wagons d1
macca - just a third possibility similar to e.m.c, though less egregious

I want to discourage the brainbomb shot as I think he is town. I don't know about macca really but if the criterion for being shot is nonparticipation surely e.m.c deserves it more.

Let your shot not be one of death and hatred, but of illumination and possibility.

I second this.

[brainbomb]

I think my scumteam just became snowy, jamie and johnny.

[brainbomb]

Why would johnny think that both myself and jamie were scum and there is little to no documented explanation as to why he scumreads jamie? before we get carried away he accused jamie at one point of not reading the setup when it was actually ME who hadnt read the setup.

I ppondered at that point if pregame the maf team had directed johnny to stay focused on players like jamie who are easy to agitate and derail. or if johnny was told that bussing is fine and its a good idea to bus occasionally.

I don't know if that was a question for me, but I think at this point you're more thinking to yourself? I can't necessarily speak to Johnny's inner thoughts and I think this question is best answered by him.

I dont buy that answer given the dialogue we have just had about this topic. And I think you are hard defending him from what might actually be scumtells.

[snowy801]

I see absolutely no reason why Johnny would feel exactly the same way you do on this matter.

Okay, well that does explain why you persist in your behavior. You do know your mafia game posting habits is a nuisance, right?

That is the last comment I will offer on this subject as from here there is only the derail, and I see it coming.

[ghug]

Here is a few questions id like every person to answer before night expires

A. does Johnny seem coached in his game awareness as of N1, and if so, by whom? whose posts do his resemble?


B. Does Johnny day 1 seem the same as Johnny N1


C. Are the contradictory statements and clear omissions in Johnnys play a newb side effect or are they potentially just scum being openly scummy.

I will state my opinion and I would probably be bashed about it but I don't care.

If any town have a gun he should shoot Johnny. If he is scum it's a dangerous deep threat and if he is town he is a huge liability as scum will never NK him and him at Milo will be scum dream scenario.

Just because he's new? He seems pretty competent for a new player.

[ghug]

What made you lean hard against PE to then come around to "ghug is scum?"

I never really thought ghug is scum, I was just sheeping Eden, as Jamiet so elegantly puts.

I think my elaboration on why I thought PE is scum needs no further detail.

Why would you sheep him if you thought PE was scum and didn't think I was?

[brainbomb]

FROM the PREGAME PLANNING CHAT

johnny: okay how do i play? what should I do.

Jamie: act natural, act newbish, and dont be afraid to bus either of us, just dont bus us for real reasons.

Johnny: bus?

Snowy: its where you vote one of us for a fraudulent reason.

Johnny: Oh okay I think i got it. so its like in avalon where you throw a mission as a bad guy and make one of your partners look bad so you look good.

Jamie: yes, what the hell is avalon. I need to go jerk off to some death metal now.

Johnny; who should i push then?

Snowy: I can tell you who you wont need to push. brainbomb. hes anti town and talks a lot so he will drown out the whole game. you can vote him if you want, but we dont want to all be oon the same wagon usually.

[snowy801]

Why would you sheep him if you thought PE was scum and didn't think I was?

I stopped thinking he was scum. In fact, as of this moment he is my 2nd strongest town read (after chaqa, in case anyone is curious)