M68: Guns N' Roses GAMETHREAD [hidden]

[ghug]

Doubling down on the shitty reads lists is a thing.

Continuing to think about the game is a thing.

Why don't you say hello to the Google Bot that's here?

I am the Google bot.

[foodcoats]

I liked worcej at the beginning, but Snowy was prodding worcej about not voting, which is interesting, because I think worcej is usually a pretty fun and loose voter... maybe I'm wrong? But it also does strike me as odd worcej didn't vote earlier in the day.

And then, this final post by worcej is super hedgy. I don't know that I've ever seen worcej be this hedgy. He basically concludes I am scum without quite saying it and he could've helped drive my wagon ahead of the PE or brain wagons, who he thinks are less scummy. And instead he sticks a policy vote... with the option to switch to... any of the three wagons!

WEAK. And very scummy and out of character for worcej, who is usually very adamant and strident and fixated, not waffly toffey.

I do not argue for or against worcej either way, but I did delve back into the past few games (worcej was in the past 3 in a row, I think, or 3/4) and he does in fact not vote until near end of day.

Not this close to near end of day, though, which is somewhat interesting. The times I vaguely recall before (don't quote me) were like 9 hours, 16 hours out of deadline.

Sorry, didn't mean to suggest you were scumreading or townreading worcej. It just caught my attention. But maybe I'm wrong about worcej's tendencies and I can't be arsed to look at the moment.

[snowy801]

ghug, when did you go from thinking brainbomb is scum to voting for his primary antagonist? Walk me through your thoughts please.

[President Eden]

Also I've clearly demonstrated a willingness to hunt. I've made my case multiple times based off evidence in the thread. Again, just because you personally don't like my case, doesn't mean I'm not doing that hunting. It is the height of arrogance to declare that people are not doing the work they do just because you personally disagree with their conclusions.

By contrast, while I think you are totally wrong about this game and that you are being an obstinate bonehead who is actively derailing town, it seems obvious to me that you're not mafia, you're simply wrong. You are actively digging and coming to conclusions, I just think they're essentially all wrong and not rooted in good reasoning but personal judgments about playstyle. I can separate both my personal dislike for your playing style and my belief that your conclusions are incorrect from my read of you.

[ghug]

It's patently absurd to suggest that I'm not thinking about the game. Even Eden's head isn't so far up his own ass that he can't see that.

[President Eden]

I have too many scums.

Suddenly I feel most confident in scumreading ghug.

I make my saving throw.

It's hard to talk about without giving mafia information for how to subvert a clean solution to the problem, but I think ghug is a better day 2 kill than day 1 kill. Even though he's clearly suspicious, there's not a lot of time left to push that, and I think trying to get wagons going on two mafia while they're getting one going on me will just end with them getting me voted off, popping off with guns tonight and causing enough chaos for their third to skate through.

[President Eden]

It's patently absurd to suggest that I'm not thinking about the game. Even Eden's head isn't so far up his own ass that he can't see that.

I think he was saying that he is continuing to think about the game, not that you aren't.

Although if I'm being honest, and knowing I'm speaking from a vested perspective as the target, your aloof potshots that (falsely) claim I am stirring the pot or faking things don't really lend themselves to the picture of someone who is thinking about the game. As best I can tell you're voting me for behavior that you well know is entirely within my normal range and making empty claims that I'm faking things to rationalize it.

[ghug]

ghug, when did you go from thinking brainbomb is scum to voting for his primary antagonist? Walk me through your thoughts please.

1. I'm not sure exactly how to describe the difference, but scum brain panic and town brain panic don't taste the same, and I'm getting hints of nutmeg on this one. His steadfast refusal to claim his item is one specific thing that comes to mind, as is the fact that he hasn't gone further off the rails and the fact that I can sort of see how the wheels are turning in there.
2. Eden's pricklier than usual, and there's something about the way he's presenting things that feels like he's trying to act how Eden would act rather than just doing what he wants.
3. This is a small enough games that I'm a little more inclined to think in terms of groups and interactions on day one. I like you. I like Johnny. I kinda like Chaqa. I'm leaning towards liking brain. I dislike food. It's first order thinking, but that shifts Eden to the bad pile based both on POE and on these people's reads of each other.

[snowy801]

I see.

Well, I guess.

##vote brainbomb

[ghug]

It's patently absurd to suggest that I'm not thinking about the game. Even Eden's head isn't so far up his own ass that he can't see that.

I think he was saying that he is continuing to think about the game, not that you aren't.

Although if I'm being honest, and knowing I'm speaking from a vested perspective as the target, your aloof potshots that (falsely) claim I am stirring the pot or faking things don't really lend themselves to the picture of someone who is thinking about the game. As best I can tell you're voting me for behavior that you well know is entirely within my normal range and making empty claims that I'm faking things to rationalize it.

Well no, he said I wasn't like a page ago, and the Google bot comment was a callback to that.

You're pissed off that I'm not giving you concrete things to argue against (this is an instinct that I can empathize with, rest assured). That doesn't mean I'm not thinking about the game (one must think about the game in order to find things to call fake, even if you don't think they are), and it strikes me as something that you wouldn't care about if you were town just trying to tell everyone I'm scum.

[ghug]

I see.

Well, I guess.

##vote brainbomb

boo

[President Eden]

If I seem pricklier than usual it's because I have an ongoing issue that started right around pregame that's been massively stressing me out. It hasn't helped that snowy's behavior is extremely reminiscent of the person at issue in it. I've slept maybe 10 hours since this game started including the 24h pregame, and half of that came before I got up and started posting in here.

I really don't think I've done anything differently from normal which is adding to the frustration. I'm playing the same way I always do.

[President Eden]

and it strikes me as something that you wouldn't care about if you were town just trying to tell everyone I'm scum.

I thought about that as I was writing and concluded that while I strongly suspect your specific raising these issues isn't in good faith, there are probably other town who genuinely agree, so it was worth addressing. Plus, in the chance I am wrong about you, it helps a lot to comment on it, and if I'm right, it doesn't really hurt.

[ghug]

and it strikes me as something that you wouldn't care about if you were town just trying to tell everyone I'm scum.

I thought about that as I was writing and concluded that while I strongly suspect your specific raising these issues isn't in good faith, there are probably other town who genuinely agree, so it was worth addressing. Plus, in the chance I am wrong about you, it helps a lot to comment on it, and if I'm right, it doesn't really hurt.

Sure, though I think I could argue you're doing the same thing here that you accuse snowy of. My playing style involves a lot of commenting on things that ping my gut. Your playing style involves a lot of trying to craft arguments that match your gut so that you can convince people of your reads. You don't like mine, and if you're town, you're reading it as scummy because it's not what you like.

[snowy801]

If I seem pricklier than usual it's because I have an ongoing issue that started right around pregame that's been massively stressing me out. It hasn't helped that snowy's behavior is extremely reminiscent of the person at issue in it. I've slept maybe 10 hours since this game started including the 24h pregame, and half of that came before I got up and started posting in here.

I really don't think I've done anything differently from normal which is adding to the frustration. I'm playing the same way I always do.

Not to accuse someone of faking a funeral again, but as I made the conscious determination that I would be at liberty to, perhaps, address you in a potentially unpleasant manner literally today after seeing that you are willing to act thus, I would deny any allegations that your prickly behavior is influenced by my own.

If you are attempting to tell me that my words and behavior towards you or anyone in particular before today caused you stress, I can only shrug.

[Jamiet99uk]

Who is confident that Brainbomb is town?

[Jamiet99uk]

@EMC you are spoiling yet another game with your non-participation.

[ghug]

Who is confident that Brainbomb is town?

I'm not confident of anyone's alignment but my own, but I feel somewhat strongly that he is.

[President Eden]

and it strikes me as something that you wouldn't care about if you were town just trying to tell everyone I'm scum.

I thought about that as I was writing and concluded that while I strongly suspect your specific raising these issues isn't in good faith, there are probably other town who genuinely agree, so it was worth addressing. Plus, in the chance I am wrong about you, it helps a lot to comment on it, and if I'm right, it doesn't really hurt.

Sure, though I think I could argue you're doing the same thing here that you accuse snowy of. My playing style involves a lot of commenting on things that ping my gut. Your playing style involves a lot of trying to craft arguments that match your gut so that you can convince people of your reads. You don't like mine, and if you're town, you're reading it as scummy because it's not what you like.

I don't think it's out of play style differences, but it's hard to say because by happenstance it's been a long time since I played a game where you were town. You told me in M64 this is just how you play, but I've only really seen what I think I'm seeing here in M64 and M67, and in both of them you were mafia. It's possible I am reading bad faith into your posts when it's just play style differences and I've simply gotten lucky both times, and that this is the game where you're town and my luck with that read runs out. But I hope you can see why I'm disinclined to believe that right now.

I don't think the comparison to snowy fits here because you and I have a few games together recently and a fairly lengthy history besides, so I'm at least operating from some historical basis. snowy met me like 2 days ago and has already decided he knows everything about me lol.

[President Eden]

If I seem pricklier than usual it's because I have an ongoing issue that started right around pregame that's been massively stressing me out. It hasn't helped that snowy's behavior is extremely reminiscent of the person at issue in it. I've slept maybe 10 hours since this game started including the 24h pregame, and half of that came before I got up and started posting in here.

I really don't think I've done anything differently from normal which is adding to the frustration. I'm playing the same way I always do.

Not to accuse someone of faking a funeral again, but as I made the conscious determination that I would be at liberty to, perhaps, address you in a potentially unpleasant manner literally today after seeing that you are willing to act thus, I would deny any allegations that your prickly behavior is influenced by my own.

If you are attempting to tell me that my words and behavior towards you or anyone in particular before today caused you stress, I can only shrug.

You couldn't have known and I'm not blaming you, just explaining.