M68: Guns N' Roses GAMETHREAD [hidden]

[brainbomb]

wow

[ghug]

So, let me get this straight, snowy.

Brainbomb shows that he's willing to paint narratives without actually reading what's going on, and you're content moving past the discussion?

ghug refuses to give you the one read you request, and you're content moving past the discussion?

What do you care about?

[President Eden]

##end

[ghug]

##VOTE worcej

Gotta stick with my top townread.

[damo666]

Ok. I've thunk. Or thinked.

We are probably 11 town roses v 3 maf guns or maybe 10r + 1g v 3g.

What scum with a gun is gonna claim it? I think we can either ignore the 'claims' or townread them.

Jamie's 'there must be at least 1 scum' is either very naive or blatant scum. I'll assume the latter unless he admits his naivety.

PE also looks dodgy imo.

##vote Jamie

I am not necessarily negating your argument, only to correct some misunderstandings:

1. There can be up to 2 town guns
2. Jamiet's argument is reliant on the conceit that scum would not claim at all, merely that brainbomb "outed" himself in a pre-game discourse which I did not personally review, and that the additional information provided by
a) the GMs, saying there are 9-11 town roses
b) Chaqa's medium-rare gun claim and ghug's alleged soft claim (2 total)

identifies brainbomb as scum.

I personally think, regardless of whether brainbomb is scum, that this merely identifies jamiet as a poor thinker, but I am not really willing to stake a position on this line yet.

1. Note the word 'probably'.

[rdrivera2005]

It is interesting to me that of food's 3 strong townreads, 2 are currently voting for him. [rdrivera, snowy (me!)]

The other two are null [Hamilton] and slight scum [brainbomb]

Why do you think seemingly town players have chosen to be voting for you at this time? I mean that in the sense that how do you interpret my and rdrivera's justifications, and see it as being part of town play?

rdr misunderstood why I was voting for brainbomb. He'll figure it out eventually (someone already pointed out he probably didn't pay attention to the signup thread where brain hardclaimed gun, which is what I glommed onto + the ratios meaning brain has great equity to be scum).

I'm actually not sure why you're voting for me.

I'm not basing my reads of either of you off your reads of me. If you are town, there's really no relationship between me being town and you being town and you voting for me. That just happens.

I didn't misunderstood why you were voting BB, I just don't get why people believe in a hard claim in a pre-game thread. I agree with BB that pre-game thread isn't part of the game.

Vecna made clear, even in the role PM that town should be aware on choosing rose that I can't believe anyone is really surprised with the number of roses.

[Jamiet99uk]

@Snowy:

Jamiet99uk
Snowy
Brainbomb
Ghug
Chaqa
President Eden
Damo
Worcej
Emc
Rdrivera
Jonathan Large Horse
Hamilton Brian
Macca
Foodcost
Dargorygel
Vecna

Do I win?

@ghug?

That's not a reads list.
I was responding to Snowy's Bozo-style task.

[snowy801]

So, let me get this straight, snowy.

Brainbomb shows that he's willing to paint narratives without actually reading what's going on, and you're content moving past the discussion?

ghug refuses to give you the one read you request, and you're content moving past the discussion?

What do you care about?

Ah, game philosophy:

To repeat myself,

Many of our fellow players have no issues with presenting themselves to the known wide world, and their actions will not generally interest me except in the form of small notes I'm taking until we near the end of the phase, where I can consider the evidence in full. I will always tend to attempt to coax more pieces out of the unknowns.

It is not to my interest to go on for 3 pages about how brainbomb failed to recognize what is and is not a reads list. He posted it, you denied it, someone noted that brainbomb is failing to recognize context, and that is sufficient. You ask me what I am interested in, and to that I would say, "that this happened."

What I am not interested in is spending effort trying to convince brainbomb that his statements were wrong, nor take 2 pages of accusations on why brainbomb is certainly scum and that we should all vote him which is where that conversation was going. He will still have made those comments 20 hours from now, and that state is immutable.

Likewise, I asked you your opinion on a rather open ended question because you were here, I didn't have a strong opinion of you, and I feel you have been somewhat reticent in giving your opinions on all but a small subset of the group.

You declined. That is response of inherent value, and you seem to be dismissing it as not.

I am not so conceited as to believe that I can force people to speak on topics that they are not inclined to. I could scream until my lungs run out that [to take a safe example] Oztra speak more than 3 memes per day, but that doesn't mean he will change his pattern. The best I can do is identify the dark holes of information we have in this day and encourage communication from them. Some people shy away from venturing their opinions uninvited. No idea why such people play games like these, but to each their own.

People like you, brainbomb and jamiet do not need encouragement to speak. I actually tend to discourage such speech, as it clutters the discussion. Why you think comments like "I think I'm town" is valuable to this game, I do not know, but neither can I change the person that you are.

[worcej]

were into the point of the game where people generate lists of where they view every player in the game with zero explanation as to why.

gonna say at least 3 of the ppl who posted forced reads lists are scum here

Another good townie post.

[ghug]

So, let me get this straight, snowy.

Brainbomb shows that he's willing to paint narratives without actually reading what's going on, and you're content moving past the discussion?

ghug refuses to give you the one read you request, and you're content moving past the discussion?

What do you care about?

Ah, game philosophy:

To repeat myself,

Many of our fellow players have no issues with presenting themselves to the known wide world, and their actions will not generally interest me except in the form of small notes I'm taking until we near the end of the phase, where I can consider the evidence in full. I will always tend to attempt to coax more pieces out of the unknowns.

It is not to my interest to go on for 3 pages about how brainbomb failed to recognize what is and is not a reads list. He posted it, you denied it, someone noted that brainbomb is failing to recognize context, and that is sufficient. You ask me what I am interested in, and to that I would say, "that this happened."

What I am not interested in is spending effort trying to convince brainbomb that his statements were wrong, nor take 2 pages of accusations on why brainbomb is certainly scum and that we should all vote him which is where that conversation was going. He will still have made those comments 20 hours from now, and that state is immutable.

Likewise, I asked you your opinion on a rather open ended question because you were here, I didn't have a strong opinion of you, and I feel you have been somewhat reticent in giving your opinions on all but a small subset of the group.

You declined. That is response of inherent value, and you seem to be dismissing it as not.

I am not so conceited as to believe that I can force people to speak on topics that they are not inclined to. I could scream until my lungs run out that [to take a safe example] Oztra speak more than 3 memes per day, but that doesn't mean he will change his pattern. The best I can do is identify the dark holes of information we have in this day and encourage communication from them. Some people shy away from venturing their opinions uninvited. No idea why such people play games like these, but to each their own.

People like you, brainbomb and jamiet do not need encouragement to speak. I actually tend to discourage such speech, as it clutters the discussion. Why you think comments like "I think I'm town" is valuable to this game, I do not know, but neither can I change the person that you are.

Adequate answer in about a thousand too many words.

I don't think I've been especially reticent to reveal my reads. I've vocally supported wagoning brain. I've expressed suspicion of food and Johnny, though the latter has acquitted himself well. I've townread Chaqa. I just complained about you.

[ghug]

were into the point of the game where people generate lists of where they view every player in the game with zero explanation as to why.

gonna say at least 3 of the ppl who posted forced reads lists are scum here

Another good townie post.

Are you joking?

[snowy801]

Ok. I've thunk. Or thinked.

We are probably 11 town roses v 3 maf guns or maybe 10r + 1g v 3g.

What scum with a gun is gonna claim it? I think we can either ignore the 'claims' or townread them.

Jamie's 'there must be at least 1 scum' is either very naive or blatant scum. I'll assume the latter unless he admits his naivety.

PE also looks dodgy imo.

##vote Jamie

I am not necessarily negating your argument, only to correct some misunderstandings:

1. There can be up to 2 town guns
2. Jamiet's argument is reliant on the conceit that scum would not claim at all, merely that brainbomb "outed" himself in a pre-game discourse which I did not personally review, and that the additional information provided by
a) the GMs, saying there are 9-11 town roses
b) Chaqa's medium-rare gun claim and ghug's alleged soft claim (2 total)

identifies brainbomb as scum.

I personally think, regardless of whether brainbomb is scum, that this merely identifies jamiet as a poor thinker, but I am not really willing to stake a position on this line yet.

1. Note the word 'probably'.

I see your point, but would counter that your first sentence can be construed as misleading as it portrays a probability space that says (higher probability of 11 rose + lower probability of 10 rose) = 1, when there could be 9 roses as well. All I wanted to say, but if you were aware of that then no big.

[worcej]

food, eden, probably not ghug, and likely not snowy but if snowy is scum thatd be a real interesting game

snowy making a list makes sense to me being someone who hasn't been here for awhile and wants to communicate their thought process.

Also, the list had enough context to get a sense of actual effort and paying attention.

[snowy801]

Adequate answer in about a thousand too many words.

I don't think I've been especially reticent to reveal my reads. I've vocally supported wagoning brain. I've expressed suspicion of food and Johnny, though the latter has acquitted himself well. I've townread Chaqa. I just complained about you.

You may be right. The impression I have of your play in my head does not necessarily reflect the reality of it. I'm just telling you my motivations at the time since you asked.

[brainbomb]

Not that you wanna hear me talk any further snowy but our friend oztra actually got banned for being a multi account.

your example is quite comparable to macca and emc. Macca who has progressed lately as vt to a more active meta which not only was energetic, they had moved forward to accuracy as well.

I dont feel particularly wowed by 5 posts; one of which was to call jamie scummy scum scum and then to mostly disappear.

emc is serially like oztra; disengaged; occasionally pops in for long enough to make a few posts; hasnt been scum in ages so its hard to tell what their slight changes would look like in a container of 8 posts or less

[brainbomb]

Snowy we no longer use the term lynch on this forum in an effort to move away from the connotations it is associated with in history.

[snowy801]

I am happy to hear you brainbomb. I assure you I pay attention to every post you make.

I just don't want to hear your thoughts about yourself, and you seem more interested in that than talking about the game.

I did not know about that lynching thing, and will adjust accordingly.

I have attempted to draw attention to emc, damo and macca. But I think some people just have two timeframes they can set aside in a 48 hour period which is fine - we just have to make the most of it. There are standing invitations to speak for each of them (not just from myself), and I think there's no point in badgering in the issue until some reason to think otherwise emerges.

[brainbomb]

As for why Eden is scum, I think in every single version of my view of gamestate I end up with Eden as scum with foodcoats.

Eden seems like scum because I feel like the only reasoning he has produced so far on how to scum hunt has been to start by paint by numbers. His immediate item claim and activation time seems really weird. The act of calling town Bitchmade for mass selecting roses also seems totally disjointed. I don't see how town is bitchmade for playing best play, or why this would be hilarious. So far I haven't been able to find a post by Eden where I see a town thought process.

Foodcoats does vote jump as town. he does throw pressure around a fair amount as town. But here it seems more like he isn't voting people who could be scum-- it seems like he is voting people he can get away with voting. The whole vote on me, the end hammer, and then asking damo to validate his reasoning. The horribly scummy forced reads list which is totally out of character for what his town game has been in recent examples. All of this leads me to conclude foodcoats is scum, wether with eden or not.

[brainbomb]

My third scum read is e.m.c because I do think that his playstyle of taking a few snapshots of gamestate is way too easy to replicate. And here the snapshots is exclusively about only Jamie and myself. which if jamie and I were scum that would be great. But I know Im not, and I doubt jamie is; so to me It looks like he just laid down some early observations to stoke an argument with myself and Jamie. It could be to just make light of that jamie and I were arguing but this seems to be a popular scum rambling point is to claim there is going to be a game long fued between jamie and myself. Worcej did this as well, claiming he needed popcorn and that this was entertainment. But I think worcej graduated from that mindset quickly and moved on to actual content. Hence the big difference between a player like worcej and emc in this situation. It isn't so much the content as it is the lack of any other actual observations of the game which tends to be a signature of a emc town game with nothing to be ashamed of.

[President Eden]

The act of calling town Bitchmade for mass selecting roses also seems totally disjointed. I don't see how town is bitchmade for playing best play, or why this would be hilarious. So far I haven't been able to find a post by Eden where I see a town thought process.

could you be more obviously butthurt caught mafia