MAFIA XXXVII: THE WHEEL OF WEB-TIME

[teacher2]

Talk to me about self-voting? (I know this is the third time, sorry if you think youve answered, I just havent understood it yet).

[flash2015]

Issue #5
Its day 2 and people are hammering and tunneling. Theres 15 ppl alive. Multiple scum. How does hammering me improve towns odds? How does policy lynching liars make the game fun and creative? Good people lie.

If you lie
Lie about your money
If you cheat
Cheat the system
If you steal
Steal someones heart

How would everyone lying improve town odds?

[teacher2]

Long Reactions post. First quote is from an old game explaining what this is for those who haven’t played with me before.

I do two general styles of substantive posts, a reads post (like from earlier today) and a reactions post (like the below, pulling quotes and responding). These two styles are the ones I spend time on, thinking/drafting/editing.

And off the the races with the very long wall. Sorry in advance. Hopefully the quotes at least break things up?

Jamie just scumslipped

If you elaborated on where, I missed it. Where? The rejection of your SK claim?

If BB is mafia, then him being such a big target from D1 would motivate him to SK claim. If he is SK, then the only incentive to keep him around is if he makes kills based on what the town wants.

It seems in this post you had narrowed Brain to anti-town (mafia or SK) roles from the SK gambit. But your earlier readslist was only a slight scum. Explain the evolution?

Can someone reiterate why Peterlund both became a wagon and evaporated?

This makes me suspicious of teacher who abandoned this to join me on yav.

1. Vecna and I both pushed him, and he became the consensus anti-brain wagon.

2. He evaporated because DrCJG and I both town-read his response to being wagonned and looked for another consensus anti-brain target.

3. For the second time, I never went to Yav. Can you please stop making shit up.

snip - wagon analysis

This and the post before it are quite good questions. I view them as WIFOM, but wanted to call them out because they are good if Brain is town and regardless am surprised that nobody (Except Jamie a little) discussed them.

I personally believe that the reasoning for peter to be scum was slim...but I don't believe that once on the wagon Peter not panicking was enough to now decide he wasn't scum (I am sure he has played enough games to know not to panic) and choose another $RANDOM target.

This is truly fair enough. My read on Peter was weak. And my impulse to get off Peter is pure meta from M36, where his reaction (as town) to being the leading wagon felt the exact same, so I trusted my internal radar's score of genuine motivation rather than strategic reaction. I went back to M36, but actually didnt see a similar post from Peter, just similar actual play -- here is the best thing I found:

Bozo and teacher both vote Peter, bringing the vote from 4-3 to 4-5. Peter responds by voting Jamie. This shows minimal concern for his own predicament, which gives me town vibes, but could also be an attempt to get away from scum v scum.

This was what initially bothered me. An early gamblers fallacy anchor vote.

Do you not believe in RVS? I mean, I dont write it off entirely, but from your several comments it seems like you take it at full weight?

Observations = unique

Worcej's only unique observation was the scumread on DrCJG. And it was because DrCJG can powerwolf, so it was effectively a townread with meta. Dont see this as good enough to support your townread there. Do you have more?

If I'm killed this night, I want to see teacher on gallows.

I know you said gut. Was it the defense of Brain or?

Maybe to the person thats claiming that he's shooting Yavuz?

But I thought you were confident that BB is town?

I want to +1 this. Very inconsistent from Vecna.

This is a pretty awesome interchange from everybody involved. Vecna, you answered in 728 and 729 but can you now give the more direct answer given the gamestate?

--sk claiming is not a rules violation--

I don’t have your (or Jaime’s) meta history. But a SK actually claiming SK D/N1 should be a rules vio, because it makes it functionally impossible for SK to obtain SK’s wincon. However, I take it from the snowy/PE history that my intuition about what the rules SHOULD be is not how they ARE. Story of my life.

FOR THE RECORD!!!!

Called it - DrCJG was 'scum' three games in a row!

Probably makes you town

Weak, but agree. Feels like genuine pleasure.

Interesting nightkills. Not sure why Dr would have been NKd. I can definitely see mafia taking out Ike, but Dr? If BB was SK, then he should have taken out Yav like he said he would. If he's not SK, then I thought the real SK would have targeted Yav to make it look like BB was actually SK, thus giving themselves some cover. I don't think BB is SK anymore. And I'm not sure why a town would claim to be scum like he has been. It just doesn't help the town at all. I think it's a good idea to lynch BB, but a pile on of him would mean very little information gained this phase.
##vote brain
However, I plan on doing some more thorough reads and post some actual cases rather than gut feelings as soon as I fix our WiFi so I can go on my laptop and not on mobile. Hopefully we can get some genuine concrete discussion going on who besides BB could be scum. I like the in-depth reads Teacher posted, although some of the things he said about the players don't match his reads. One example: on doubting Thomas he talks about a couple scummy things , then posts solid null. Why not scumlean? And that wasn't the only time I felt like he did that.

1. Night Kill Analysis- I disagree with you. I cant tell who did which kill. Both Ike and Dr were generally townread, so make sense as scumkill. Why do you not see maf on Dr? This is not necessarily directed just at Squigs, since this is the consensus reaction. Since I see/saw both as relatively townie, Im also trying to figure out the implications of that for the sk.

2. The contradictions in my readslist (which you mentioned in another post too): I had a special paragraph before the reads talking about Damo, Doubting, and Bismarck for this reason. Its both theory and personal bias. For theory, the three easiest things to mix up are newbs, scums, and PRs, since they all seem more nervous/guarded than town. For personal bias, I generally want to go lightly on newbs. So I listed my real reaction, but described them as null because they are pretty far down on my list of willing to lynch.

---Fake PM---

Is this humor? Lying - even as humor - seems antitown in this gamestate. What was your thinking?

As much as the Brain Jamie fighting bores me I suspect they are both town so I think we just have to put up with them. I would like to see a lynch of one of the surviving Dip lynchers. I'm leaning towards worcej or Peter.

Talk to me more about your Brain townread.

##vote PeterLund

such a deja vu. maybe people will sheep me again on d4 when im dead.

Quite a lot has happened since your previous explanation. What is it now?

I know worcej is town, his push on drcjgc is never a bus. People just dont do that sort of thing.

This is a crap post considering scum doesn’t know who traitor is so it cant be a bus either way. (you caught yourself on this in 826, but Im just noting it because I reacted to it.)

----AND THATS ALL FOLKS. Good night. Im going to be low access tomorrow during the day as well-----

[BismarckAlive]

Just a current situation post (facts):

Town Left: 11
Mafia Left: 3
Serial Killer: Alive

So, if we lynch someone, the probability of lynching someone we do want dead is: 4/15 or 26.7%. This deteriorated after 3 deaths because the original ratio (5/18 or 27.8%) was affected by the loss of two townspeople to the one mafia so far. This is just mathematical fact.

Since Ninja and SK are still alive, then those two did the killing last night. Assuming Roleblocker tried blocking someone, then we don't know who was blocked yet (Brain's claim was debunked). I also assume Veteran and JOAT did not do anything N1.

[brainbomb]

Issue #5
Its day 2 and people are hammering and tunneling. Theres 15 ppl alive. Multiple scum. How does hammering me improve towns odds? How does policy lynching liars make the game fun and creative? Good people lie.

If you lie
Lie about your money
If you cheat
Cheat the system
If you steal
Steal someones heart

How would everyone lying improve town odds?

How does everyone tryharding help town oddz

[brainbomb]

Long Reactions post. First quote is from an old game explaining what this is for those who haven’t played with me before.

I do two general styles of substantive posts, a reads post (like from earlier today) and a reactions post (like the below, pulling quotes and responding). These two styles are the ones I spend time on, thinking/drafting/editing.

And off the the races with the very long wall. Sorry in advance. Hopefully the quotes at least break things up?

Jamie just scumslipped

If you elaborated on where, I missed it. Where? The rejection of your SK claim?

If BB is mafia, then him being such a big target from D1 would motivate him to SK claim. If he is SK, then the only incentive to keep him around is if he makes kills based on what the town wants.

It seems in this post you had narrowed Brain to anti-town (mafia or SK) roles from the SK gambit. But your earlier readslist was only a slight scum. Explain the evolution?

Can someone reiterate why Peterlund both became a wagon and evaporated?

This makes me suspicious of teacher who abandoned this to join me on yav.

1. Vecna and I both pushed him, and he became the consensus anti-brain wagon.

2. He evaporated because DrCJG and I both town-read his response to being wagonned and looked for another consensus anti-brain target.

3. For the second time, I never went to Yav. Can you please stop making shit up.

snip - wagon analysis

This and the post before it are quite good questions. I view them as WIFOM, but wanted to call them out because they are good if Brain is town and regardless am surprised that nobody (Except Jamie a little) discussed them.

I personally believe that the reasoning for peter to be scum was slim...but I don't believe that once on the wagon Peter not panicking was enough to now decide he wasn't scum (I am sure he has played enough games to know not to panic) and choose another $RANDOM target.

This is truly fair enough. My read on Peter was weak. And my impulse to get off Peter is pure meta from M36, where his reaction (as town) to being the leading wagon felt the exact same, so I trusted my internal radar's score of genuine motivation rather than strategic reaction. I went back to M36, but actually didnt see a similar post from Peter, just similar actual play -- here is the best thing I found:

Bozo and teacher both vote Peter, bringing the vote from 4-3 to 4-5. Peter responds by voting Jamie. This shows minimal concern for his own predicament, which gives me town vibes, but could also be an attempt to get away from scum v scum.

This was what initially bothered me. An early gamblers fallacy anchor vote.

Do you not believe in RVS? I mean, I dont write it off entirely, but from your several comments it seems like you take it at full weight?

Observations = unique

Worcej's only unique observation was the scumread on DrCJG. And it was because DrCJG can powerwolf, so it was effectively a townread with meta. Dont see this as good enough to support your townread there. Do you have more?

If I'm killed this night, I want to see teacher on gallows.

I know you said gut. Was it the defense of Brain or?

But I thought you were confident that BB is town?

I want to +1 this. Very inconsistent from Vecna.

This is a pretty awesome interchange from everybody involved. Vecna, you answered in 728 and 729 but can you now give the more direct answer given the gamestate?

--sk claiming is not a rules violation--

I don’t have your (or Jaime’s) meta history. But a SK actually claiming SK D/N1 should be a rules vio, because it makes it functionally impossible for SK to obtain SK’s wincon. However, I take it from the snowy/PE history that my intuition about what the rules SHOULD be is not how they ARE. Story of my life.

FOR THE RECORD!!!!

Called it - DrCJG was 'scum' three games in a row!

Probably makes you town

Weak, but agree. Feels like genuine pleasure.

Interesting nightkills. Not sure why Dr would have been NKd. I can definitely see mafia taking out Ike, but Dr? If BB was SK, then he should have taken out Yav like he said he would. If he's not SK, then I thought the real SK would have targeted Yav to make it look like BB was actually SK, thus giving themselves some cover. I don't think BB is SK anymore. And I'm not sure why a town would claim to be scum like he has been. It just doesn't help the town at all. I think it's a good idea to lynch BB, but a pile on of him would mean very little information gained this phase.
##vote brain
However, I plan on doing some more thorough reads and post some actual cases rather than gut feelings as soon as I fix our WiFi so I can go on my laptop and not on mobile. Hopefully we can get some genuine concrete discussion going on who besides BB could be scum. I like the in-depth reads Teacher posted, although some of the things he said about the players don't match his reads. One example: on doubting Thomas he talks about a couple scummy things , then posts solid null. Why not scumlean? And that wasn't the only time I felt like he did that.

1. Night Kill Analysis- I disagree with you. I cant tell who did which kill. Both Ike and Dr were generally townread, so make sense as scumkill. Why do you not see maf on Dr? This is not necessarily directed just at Squigs, since this is the consensus reaction. Since I see/saw both as relatively townie, Im also trying to figure out the implications of that for the sk.

2. The contradictions in my readslist (which you mentioned in another post too): I had a special paragraph before the reads talking about Damo, Doubting, and Bismarck for this reason. Its both theory and personal bias. For theory, the three easiest things to mix up are newbs, scums, and PRs, since they all seem more nervous/guarded than town. For personal bias, I generally want to go lightly on newbs. So I listed my real reaction, but described them as null because they are pretty far down on my list of willing to lynch.

---Fake PM---

Is this humor? Lying - even as humor - seems antitown in this gamestate. What was your thinking?

As much as the Brain Jamie fighting bores me I suspect they are both town so I think we just have to put up with them. I would like to see a lynch of one of the surviving Dip lynchers. I'm leaning towards worcej or Peter.

Talk to me more about your Brain townread.

##vote PeterLund

such a deja vu. maybe people will sheep me again on d4 when im dead.

Quite a lot has happened since your previous explanation. What is it now?

I know worcej is town, his push on drcjgc is never a bus. People just dont do that sort of thing.

This is a crap post considering scum doesn’t know who traitor is so it cant be a bus either way. (you caught yourself on this in 826, but Im just noting it because I reacted to it.)

----AND THATS ALL FOLKS. Good night. Im going to be low access tomorrow during the day as well-----

So... a scum who voted someone is being listed in your reasons why your pushes are justified?

You should realize the good doctor wasnt good.

And his certification to practice medicine should be highly questioned

[brainbomb]

Talk to me about self-voting? (I know this is the third time, sorry if you think youve answered, I just havent understood it yet).

Oh, Well lets see, self voting to illustrate a point at midday is somehow being conflated to scum indicative. What youre arguing is timing of a self vote and not an act of self vote.

Lets say its tied 4 to 4
30 secconds left

Im vt
My top or read is up to die
Fuck ya id kill myself in a heartbeat

You people are weak ass bitches. These argumentz are terrible man

[brainbomb]

Long Reactions post. First quote is from an old game explaining what this is for those who haven’t played with me before.

I do two general styles of substantive posts, a reads post (like from earlier today) and a reactions post (like the below, pulling quotes and responding). These two styles are the ones I spend time on, thinking/drafting/editing.

And off the the races with the very long wall. Sorry in advance. Hopefully the quotes at least break things up?

Jamie just scumslipped

If you elaborated on where, I missed it. Where? The rejection of your SK claim?

If BB is mafia, then him being such a big target from D1 would motivate him to SK claim. If he is SK, then the only incentive to keep him around is if he makes kills based on what the town wants.

It seems in this post you had narrowed Brain to anti-town (mafia or SK) roles from the SK gambit. But your earlier readslist was only a slight scum. Explain the evolution?

Can someone reiterate why Peterlund both became a wagon and evaporated?

This makes me suspicious of teacher who abandoned this to join me on yav.

1. Vecna and I both pushed him, and he became the consensus anti-brain wagon.

2. He evaporated because DrCJG and I both town-read his response to being wagonned and looked for another consensus anti-brain target.

3. For the second time, I never went to Yav. Can you please stop making shit up.

snip - wagon analysis

This and the post before it are quite good questions. I view them as WIFOM, but wanted to call them out because they are good if Brain is town and regardless am surprised that nobody (Except Jamie a little) discussed them.

I personally believe that the reasoning for peter to be scum was slim...but I don't believe that once on the wagon Peter not panicking was enough to now decide he wasn't scum (I am sure he has played enough games to know not to panic) and choose another $RANDOM target.

This is truly fair enough. My read on Peter was weak. And my impulse to get off Peter is pure meta from M36, where his reaction (as town) to being the leading wagon felt the exact same, so I trusted my internal radar's score of genuine motivation rather than strategic reaction. I went back to M36, but actually didnt see a similar post from Peter, just similar actual play -- here is the best thing I found:

Bozo and teacher both vote Peter, bringing the vote from 4-3 to 4-5. Peter responds by voting Jamie. This shows minimal concern for his own predicament, which gives me town vibes, but could also be an attempt to get away from scum v scum.

This was what initially bothered me. An early gamblers fallacy anchor vote.

Do you not believe in RVS? I mean, I dont write it off entirely, but from your several comments it seems like you take it at full weight?

Observations = unique

Worcej's only unique observation was the scumread on DrCJG. And it was because DrCJG can powerwolf, so it was effectively a townread with meta. Dont see this as good enough to support your townread there. Do you have more?

If I'm killed this night, I want to see teacher on gallows.

I know you said gut. Was it the defense of Brain or?

But I thought you were confident that BB is town?

I want to +1 this. Very inconsistent from Vecna.

This is a pretty awesome interchange from everybody involved. Vecna, you answered in 728 and 729 but can you now give the more direct answer given the gamestate?

--sk claiming is not a rules violation--

I don’t have your (or Jaime’s) meta history. But a SK actually claiming SK D/N1 should be a rules vio, because it makes it functionally impossible for SK to obtain SK’s wincon. However, I take it from the snowy/PE history that my intuition about what the rules SHOULD be is not how they ARE. Story of my life.

FOR THE RECORD!!!!

Called it - DrCJG was 'scum' three games in a row!

Probably makes you town

Weak, but agree. Feels like genuine pleasure.

Interesting nightkills. Not sure why Dr would have been NKd. I can definitely see mafia taking out Ike, but Dr? If BB was SK, then he should have taken out Yav like he said he would. If he's not SK, then I thought the real SK would have targeted Yav to make it look like BB was actually SK, thus giving themselves some cover. I don't think BB is SK anymore. And I'm not sure why a town would claim to be scum like he has been. It just doesn't help the town at all. I think it's a good idea to lynch BB, but a pile on of him would mean very little information gained this phase.
##vote brain
However, I plan on doing some more thorough reads and post some actual cases rather than gut feelings as soon as I fix our WiFi so I can go on my laptop and not on mobile. Hopefully we can get some genuine concrete discussion going on who besides BB could be scum. I like the in-depth reads Teacher posted, although some of the things he said about the players don't match his reads. One example: on doubting Thomas he talks about a couple scummy things , then posts solid null. Why not scumlean? And that wasn't the only time I felt like he did that.

1. Night Kill Analysis- I disagree with you. I cant tell who did which kill. Both Ike and Dr were generally townread, so make sense as scumkill. Why do you not see maf on Dr? This is not necessarily directed just at Squigs, since this is the consensus reaction. Since I see/saw both as relatively townie, Im also trying to figure out the implications of that for the sk.

2. The contradictions in my readslist (which you mentioned in another post too): I had a special paragraph before the reads talking about Damo, Doubting, and Bismarck for this reason. Its both theory and personal bias. For theory, the three easiest things to mix up are newbs, scums, and PRs, since they all seem more nervous/guarded than town. For personal bias, I generally want to go lightly on newbs. So I listed my real reaction, but described them as null because they are pretty far down on my list of willing to lynch.

---Fake PM---

Is this humor? Lying - even as humor - seems antitown in this gamestate. What was your thinking?

As much as the Brain Jamie fighting bores me I suspect they are both town so I think we just have to put up with them. I would like to see a lynch of one of the surviving Dip lynchers. I'm leaning towards worcej or Peter.

Talk to me more about your Brain townread.

##vote PeterLund

such a deja vu. maybe people will sheep me again on d4 when im dead.

Quite a lot has happened since your previous explanation. What is it now?

I know worcej is town, his push on drcjgc is never a bus. People just dont do that sort of thing.

This is a crap post considering scum doesn’t know who traitor is so it cant be a bus either way. (you caught yourself on this in 826, but Im just noting it because I reacted to it.)

----AND THATS ALL FOLKS. Good night. Im going to be low access tomorrow during the day as well-----

Snowy801 asked the gms in m33 if he could claim.sk day 1 as sk unprompted and it was not a rule vio
Stop micromanaging

[brainbomb]

Okay. This is by far the dumbest game in webdip history. The sk is the only reason weve killed scum. Or even more hilarious the scumteam is even more retarded than town and is shooting itself.

What a time to be alive.

Worcej is 100000% town and if you ever kill her yer a cumstain on a mattress at best at mafia

[brainbomb]

Teachers post feels very desperate to look solvy. Hes just highlighting a bunch of hot gossip topics that have already been debated if not debunked. Its like watching tosh.o but no one laughs because the arguments are dry and desperate.

Grow a pair my friend and go fuck yourself

[brainbomb]

If youd like to ask me why rdrivera is scum, or why yavuz is blatantly scum, or why vecna is very town im happy to answer. But if you disagree you probably dont care about my reason why

[brainbomb]

Have you noticed that im being lynched for not answering questions but ive actually had more consistent and persistent effirt than anyone? The things im being lynched for are things that only very low level town players care about, and only decent scum players use as alibis

[teacher2]

Teachers post feels very desperate to look solvy. Hes just highlighting a bunch of hot gossip topics that have already been debated if not debunked. Its like watching tosh.o but no one laughs because the arguments are dry and desperate.

Grow a pair my friend and go fuck yourself

1. I cant tell what half your posts above were responding to in the long wall. But it looks like it doesnt matter because our earlier civil discourse looks like its at its end.

2. Stop making shit up. If you can show me where people "debated" or "debunked" your wagon analysis that I called out, or answered your PeterLund questions, or questioned Vecna, I will eat crow. I was 10 pages behind so read it all at once and didnt see it, hence the post.

[teacher2]

If youd like to ask me why rdrivera is scum, or why yavuz is blatantly scum, or why vecna is very town im happy to answer. But if you disagree you probably dont care about my reason why

I mean I have a crackpot theory based on the nks and the difference from meta that yavuz is the serial killer, but Im glad to talk with you about them. I agree with all of your reads there (hence my readslist). But same reads does not mean same alignment.

[brainbomb]

Its a good idea to be aware of your own stupidity.
Know thyself.
Embarassing yourself when meta is at work is sad.

But 63 hours into a game
80 hours in
A player should have more than 1 scumread
Town never have 1 scumread day 2
Simply doesnt exist

Ive got alot who can alllll die
Bozo maybe is null now.

Jamie
Yav
Teacher
Thomas
Rivera


Id say squiggs and damo are town
Flash is just... this hothead lunatic. Probably town?

Therez no world where teacher and yav are both town

[flash2015]

Okay. This is by far the dumbest game in webdip history. The sk is the only reason weve killed scum. Or even more hilarious the scumteam is even more retarded than town and is shooting itself.

What a time to be alive.

Worcej is 100000% town and if you ever kill her yer a cumstain on a mattress at best at mafia

If you believe this game is "the dumbest game in webdip history" you sound like you are obviously not enjoying this game...and I can probably say with some confidence that I am not alone in not enjoying interacting with you. Perhaps it is best for everyone if you ask the mods if you can be replaced?

[brainbomb]

Teachers post feels very desperate to look solvy. Hes just highlighting a bunch of hot gossip topics that have already been debated if not debunked. Its like watching tosh.o but no one laughs because the arguments are dry and desperate.

Grow a pair my friend and go fuck yourself

1. I cant tell what half your posts above were responding to in the long wall. But it looks like it doesnt matter because our earlier civil discourse looks like its at its end.

2. Stop making shit up. If you can show me where people "debated" or "debunked" your wagon analysis that I called out, or answered your PeterLund questions, or questioned Vecna, I will eat crow. I was 10 pages behind so read it all at once and didnt see it, hence the post.

Then just read the game dude
My wagon analysis wasnt properly debated at all
Itd be great if it was

All ive seen so far is lynching worcej which is my strongest no no no

[brainbomb]

Okay. This is by far the dumbest game in webdip history. The sk is the only reason weve killed scum. Or even more hilarious the scumteam is even more retarded than town and is shooting itself.

What a time to be alive.

Worcej is 100000% town and if you ever kill her yer a cumstain on a mattress at best at mafia

If you believe this game is "the dumbest game in webdip history" you sound like you are obviously not enjoying this game...and I can probably say with some confidence that I am not alone in not enjoying interacting with you. Perhaps it is best for everyone if you ask the mods if you can be replaced?

Maybe its in the mods best interest if you stfu and not play anymore then

[brainbomb]

Was I supposed to be your friend and be all n8ce and polite as you lube up and try to assram me into the god qt?

[brainbomb]

Maybe you dont understand how substance players feel. Theres a reason you cant name my team.

Because I dont have one.