MAFIA 66: The Battle for Olympus - Game Thread [hidden]

[kgray]

Because you had that whole argument about how scum rb their kills? and you said Vecna is a good player, and all?

I never argued that scum normally RB their NK...? I talked about hypotheticals but I didn't say that was standard. I honestly have no idea if it is.

I didn't think Vecna was a surprising NK based on his reputation, but that doesn't have anything to do with a RB.

I checked and I was wrong about you saying that. However, I still think it's absolute bullshit that that you have no idea if that is the case. You've been playing since m54. You should know how the game is played.

This is a ridiculous argument. I haven't played in every game since then, and I've only been scum... 3 times? And I don't remember and am not going to check, but I don't think my scumteam has ever RB'd our NK. So saying that I'd convince my team here to do that makes no sense.

[damo666]

This makes me worried that we have it wrong and Damo wants us to end before we change our minds.

If I were scum would I be that daft?

It's a good tactic from townpov if you like at the current votes.

If Bona and Macca are both scum Bona could self vote, get a tie and a scum victory.

We need a minimum of 6 votes on one wagon excluding the top 2 wagons themselves.

My end vote is designed to concentrate minds, force the issue ad push scum into a corner.

It's 6-4 at the moment. After a tie and a NK we're at 5-4, still winnable.

Yep ok

[rdrivera2005]

Rip Dargo.

I think at this point I can hardly see a team without Macca. I have less confidence on Bona, but I understand the reasons to vote him. I am also willing to vote Yav.

My guess for the scum team is Macca, Yav, one of Bona or Celaph and one deep threat between Chaqa, Damo and Kgray. Right now I would bet on Damo that is holding just on his RB claim.

##vote Macca

I get this, and mostly agree, but the problem with "can't see a team without Macca" is that it's based on crossing "townie" people off of the POEs. And if we're wrong about those people being town, then defaulting to Macca just because they didn't make the "townreads" list could end with us losing. It just makes me uncomfortable and I've been tricked by similar situations before.

Did you disagree with my point about Damo caring about TvT wagons? Chaqa is my best guess for the deep threat.

I am completely torn on Damo. I really disliked his first days and some of the math posts that look like agenda oriented. But he had some towny posts that doesn't seem faked in the last days. About the T x T I don't fully agree with you, scum often get involved on T x T wagons exactly to get town credit, either by defending a towny or by pushing one of the wagons. Also, getting Flum killed over Maniac is a great outcome for scum, at least on my personal view.

[kgray]

When did I say (or imply) that I was using this game to inflate my VT words/day? I'm confused.

You said you have two data points after I acknowledged reasons you might exclude the two lower-posting games (your first and a mini game) but only listed one other VT game. So I assumed you were using this game as your "second data point." Did I misinterpret that?

No. I take issue with you saying that I'm somehow inflating the VT numbers, since I haven't claimed an increase in them due to this game.

That's exactly what you're doing though. You're saying that you have two cases of VT words/day, one of which is this game, and concluding that this game you're in your typical words/day of VT games. It's nonsense.

[kgray]

I've only played one scum game - in a set up that is not analogous to this, in that it had 2 scumteams and I could genuinely be hunting and do townie behaviors. People didn't account for that and so I was able to get by with a lot of scummy stuff because people said my hunting stuff was actually good and had effort. I have not played as scum in a one scum team vs town set up. Among Us is vaguely comparable to this but not really due to the much shorter rounds and the main sources of information not being publicly verifiable, such as locations and pathing. Here everyone has the same record of what was said, by who, and in a timestamped fashion.

This isn't accurate, you were townread because you were calling out PRs and predominantly voting based on creating tied wagons, and nobody thought you'd be bold enough to do such anti-town antics as scum.

[damo666]

I'm pretty sure we are currently in S v S territory wit Yav panicking any deepthreat ots.

[yavuzovic]

I'm pretty sure we are currently in S v S territory wit Yav panicking any deepthreat ots.

Anyone except Bona is bussing now then

[damo666]

I'm fairly convinced it's Macca Yav Bona and Chaqa/Jamie.

Can we not just kill Macca get a NK and proceed?

If Macca is town I don't care if we lose anyway. Won't be my fault.

[damo666]

Rip Dargo.

I think at this point I can hardly see a team without Macca. I have less confidence on Bona, but I understand the reasons to vote him. I am also willing to vote Yav.

My guess for the scum team is Macca, Yav, one of Bona or Celaph and one deep threat between Chaqa, Damo and Kgray. Right now I would bet on Damo that is holding just on his RB claim.

##vote Macca

I get this, and mostly agree, but the problem with "can't see a team without Macca" is that it's based on crossing "townie" people off of the POEs. And if we're wrong about those people being town, then defaulting to Macca just because they didn't make the "townreads" list could end with us losing. It just makes me uncomfortable and I've been tricked by similar situations before.

Did you disagree with my point about Damo caring about TvT wagons? Chaqa is my best guess for the deep threat.

I am completely torn on Damo. I really disliked his first days and some of the math posts that look like agenda oriented. But he had some towny posts that doesn't seem faked in the last days. About the T x T I don't fully agree with you, scum often get involved on T x T wagons exactly to get town credit, either by defending a towny or by pushing one of the wagons. Also, getting Flum killed over Maniac is a great outcome for scum, at least on my personal view.

rdr trust me, I'm as VT as VT VT

[yavuzovic]

@yavu would love to hear your thoughts on the state of affairs.

I'm trying to give opinions as I read. I think voting out of Macca is dangerous today. They haven't only been scummy, but also their wagon was saved multiple times. I defended them on D3 so it may not be something I have right to criticize. But I also started to find Bona scummy. I don't have a solid reason but his words seemed scummy. I would say they are both scum but this is highly unlikely. 40% of the voters are scum, their influence wouldn't let this. I will stcik with Macca I guess.

This is bad reasoning. I think today is the day where bussing and distancing makes more sense. It won't surprise me if both Macca and Bona are scum.

I don't know. Only if they can derail a single townie, they can miskill and win. It makes sense to stay low, and I don't think mafia are all on one wagon but they can easily make us miskill at EoD

[damo666]

I'm pretty sure we are currently in S v S territory wit Yav panicking any deepthreat ots.

Anyone except Bona is bussing now then

Everyone except Bona. Yes. Absolutely. You just confirmed it.

[kgray]

Least in favor of killing
food
kgray
damo
Jamie
rdr
Chaqa
yavu
Bona
Macca
Most in favor of killing

If Macca's town here I think we've just lost. There is no way I see them surviving 4 days. We have very little D1-2 to work off. Their catchup D3 was poor. Their push on Darg was bizarre. So little is town here.

For many of the reasons that myself and others have called out, I think Bona looks particularly suspect. The two parts that are sticking out for me are their interactions with Macca and their thought process around the cop soft claim.

Chaqa is falling on my list given the way he's defending Bona. It doesn't feel natural.

Rdr has steadily become townier as the game has gone on. I agree with kgray's argument that his play has felt really natural.

Jamie's looked a lot townier ever since the Maniac vote and I agree with Chaqa's comments here that his play regarding the ww felt both natural and towny, as if he had little to fear.

I'm pretty much here with my scumreads too. Not in that order, and Macca is there by default which I really don't like, but I can find more reasons to townread Rivera and damo so if they're scum instead of Macca then it's just too late. Why is damo so high on your list? Why am I?

[yavuzovic]

I confirmed? I only rephrased your claim

[kgray]

Least in favor of killing
food
kgray
damo
Jamie
rdr
Chaqa
yavu
Bona
Macca
Most in favor of killing

If Macca's town here I think we've just lost. There is no way I see them surviving 4 days. We have very little D1-2 to work off. Their catchup D3 was poor. Their push on Darg was bizarre. So little is town here.

For many of the reasons that myself and others have called out, I think Bona looks particularly suspect. The two parts that are sticking out for me are their interactions with Macca and their thought process around the cop soft claim.

Chaqa is falling on my list given the way he's defending Bona. It doesn't feel natural.

Rdr has steadily become townier as the game has gone on. I agree with kgray's argument that his play has felt really natural.

Jamie's looked a lot townier ever since the Maniac vote and I agree with Chaqa's comments here that his play regarding the ww felt both natural and towny, as if he had little to fear.

This is an excellent post.

In addition to Macca having to be scum for town to win I think food has to be town for us to win as his survival looks as inevitable as Macca's demise.

Town

Damo
Food celaph
rdr
Jamie
Kgray
Bona Chaqa
Yav
Macca

Mafia

I can't see Macca or Yav surviving so let's get rid of them first. We can sort the more dubious pair later.

If Macca or Yav are town then well played scum.

I think Bona may well be scum but I'm not convinced enough for him to be the right kill today. I will only vote Bona to save anybody above him in my list.

Wait celaph jumps up just like that? What about his post was so excellent that it brought him to food-levels of towniness?

[kgray]

Rip Dargo.

I think at this point I can hardly see a team without Macca. I have less confidence on Bona, but I understand the reasons to vote him. I am also willing to vote Yav.

My guess for the scum team is Macca, Yav, one of Bona or Celaph and one deep threat between Chaqa, Damo and Kgray. Right now I would bet on Damo that is holding just on his RB claim.

##vote Macca

I like this post. Except you are wrong about me rdr but I can understand where you are coming from.

Okay this is the second post damo has praised and from what I can tell it's because of the "Macca has to be scum because of POE" argument.

[damo666]

I confirmed? I only rephrased your claim

Your stating of the obvious is confirmatory evidence of your guilt.

[yavuzovic]

Other then exchanging N5 for N6, what is weird to me is Macca ignoring the most obvious reason for N4 (Janitor wasn't online on time). This post didn't make me change my mind.

Then we should look for a player who was inactive between Kak's claim and the ohase shift. Rivera, food, Bona, Chaqa are the players who posted between these two. If they had the time to post, they would have the time to set their janitorisation order.

[damo666]

Rip Dargo.

I think at this point I can hardly see a team without Macca. I have less confidence on Bona, but I understand the reasons to vote him. I am also willing to vote Yav.

My guess for the scum team is Macca, Yav, one of Bona or Celaph and one deep threat between Chaqa, Damo and Kgray. Right now I would bet on Damo that is holding just on his RB claim.

##vote Macca

I like this post. Except you are wrong about me rdr but I can understand where you are coming from.

Okay this is the second post damo has praised and from what I can tell it's because of the "Macca has to be scum because of POE" argument.

It was para 3 I was particularly agreeing with. I've hardly ever wavered from the Macca Yav line

[kgray]

I will soon come back and read the game. For now ##vote Macca
U don't know much about the Bona case but it seems scum motivated. Don't fall on a trap

Why do you think the Bona case is scum-motivated if you don't know much about it? Do you think me, Jamie, food and Macca are the scumteam? Why is Bona more likely a trap than Macca?

[kgray]

This makes me worried that we have it wrong and Damo wants us to end before we change our minds.

If I were scum would I be that daft?

It's a good tactic from townpov if you like at the current votes.

If Bona and Macca are both scum Bona could self vote, get a tie and a scum victory.

We need a minimum of 6 votes on one wagon excluding the top 2 wagons themselves.

My end vote is designed to concentrate minds, force the issue ad push scum into a corner.

Aren't we in mylo, not kylo?