MAFIA 66: The Battle for Olympus - Game Thread [hidden]

[Bonatogether]

Why is chat dead

[rdrivera2005]

I mean, bona just flubbed his story about why he was shading darg’s cop claim, and I’m pretty sure he’s offered no positive analysis the whole game?

Bona is also definitely scum.

What do you mean flubbed?

I mean that you gave a rash, ill-considered answer that contradicts your iso and is untownie.

Let's look at what happens. Jamie had asked as below, and you responded thusly:

Can you please explain your view on darg. With a sensible explanation you can become strongtown

I was trying to softclaim cop to get scum to kill me but then kak went and did the same thing but more.

So, when you finally answer what your position on darg was, you say you were softing cop to draw the NK - nothing more.

I then asked how that could make sense, given the way you attacked darg EOD1, where you made a case that suggested you were ignorant of there even being a cop - which obviously would tell the scum team you were NOT cop - and you responded thusly:

Bona, you were softing cop but you suggested there was no cop role?

I changed my position over time but didn't say it so I could draw the nk.

Okay, you changed your position over time. But how? Darg then asked about this to clarify, and you responded:

Ok. Bona... This has been a copclaim day. I was surprised that kak claimed, in the light of Maniac (and me.) I suppose it's the only game I town. I plan to ask kak his process of thought. Later.

But I can ask you now. Did you believe me at first? When did you? When did you start to plan this? Can you help me understand?

a) No.

b) End of night 3 I think.

c) I just thought "hey this would be good since a bunch of PRs have bitten the dust."

So, what happens EON3/start of D4? The last thing you say on N3 about darg is:

No, I'm all for that.

It's because 999,999 times out of a million, that's someone mindlessly saying the wrong thing, not slipping.

Even if darg is lying, he's been "the cop" for 75% of the time he's been the cop if he's the actual cop. It's equally engrained.

But he doesn't claim what you said here - he claims that it's a typo.

So at EON4, you are spewing that you are convinced darg is not cop because of a slip. This doesn't at all look like you are softing; it actually looks like you are hunting (just... not very well, because you are not considering anyone else's arguments about the scenario). So how did you expect scum to see you as "softing?"

Now, if we look at the beginning of D4, you say a bunch of things about how darg is scum - too many to include here, but I encourage all townies to look at Bona's D4. You do not in any way seem to be softing cop with any of the statements you make; rather, you make arguments about why darg is scum for claiming cop as he did on D1 and then for making a typo and writing "doc" instead of "cop." So in other words, you still seem to be hunting for scum - but you continue to ignore everyone else giving you reasons to believe darg is town.

My point is, it NEVER looks like you are softing cop. It looks like you are tunneled madly on darg. You also don't actually seem to evolve your position as you claim; rather, you just tunnel harder (while, again, ignoring contrary evidence).

So, why do I say you "flubbed" your case? I say that because Jamie and damo forced your hand to reply to a question you were avoiding, and you answered too quickly without looking back at what you had said and done - thus creating inconsistencies. You also answered in a totally untownie way; Jamie asked, "Can you please explain your view on darg. With a sensible explanation you can become strongtown;" and the ONLY thing you replied was that you were trying to draw the NK. If you were actually town, you would've seen what Jamie was actually asking and explain "At the end of N3, such-and-such evidence convinced me." Instead, you got defensive and came up with a bad answer that contradicts your ISO.

@Macca @celaph @rdr @yavu

Please tell us what you think of my case.

I think you are right and Bona is scum. I wasn't scumreading him because I didn't see much of a scum reason to challenge the cop claimant the way he did. But spending 3 days on it is a way to avoid doing any other thinking and this explanation he want to draw the NK is lame to say the least.

[rdrivera2005]

Scum have no day chat so multiple (3+) bussing seems highly unlikely.

Therefore we can assume AT LEAST 2 scum in

Jamie Macca Yav rdr

Voting outside this pool tomorrow would be suboptimal (44% v >= 50%).

People advocating voting outside this group should be viewed with great suspicion.

Jamie is likely town for the way he handled HB try, plus he has less chance to be scum, so he shouldn't be in this pool.

[rdrivera2005]

I get this nagging feeling food is the deep threat

I've been scumreading food since forever

If food is scum this game is over. I would never push his kill, he is the one doing most effort and it doesn't look like scum effort.

[rdrivera2005]

Because your d1 posts felt not town and they have barely improved since.

Okay, so let's say you're right.

In addition to me, who are the three remaining scum?

Can you please give us your four and your reasoning?

My POE (in no particular order) is you, kgray, celaph, Chaqa, rdr.

You for a persistent inability to be townie for more than 5 minutes at a time.

Kgray for bending over backwards to defend celaph in weird ways.

Kgray's defenses don't really make sense unless celaph is scum. Celaph also (as has been pointed out by others) hasn't put out the sort of reads that he did as town before. He did some d1 but not afterwards.

Chaqa has acted townie but I just can't get over the feeling that he might be scum. He fooled a lot of people last time as scum doing things not entirely dissimilar from what he's doing now.

rdr hasn't felt as probing or plain smart (I would say sharp but that is overused now) this game in a way similar to how Demon wasn't.

This read are so bad I don't know even where to start. How Kgray defending Celaph is an indication both are scum?

[Chaqa]

I don't see much reason to post at night. Just could give scum more ideas. Everyone put work into your cases and post them at EoN, I think

[rdrivera2005]

If a town member has bins suggest watching one of Macca Yav rdr.

If a town member has a healing crystal me or darg. Take your pick.

Why you think you are a town clear? D1 RB that could have been used on Vecna as no item was claimed?

[rdrivera2005]

Why is chat dead

Because scum are busy on his own QT.

[Bonatogether]

This read are so bad I don't know even where to start. How Kgray defending Celaph is an indication both are scum?

The fact of the defending wasn't the scummy thing but how she did it was.

[damo666]

Scum have no day chat so multiple (3+) bussing seems highly unlikely.

Therefore we can assume AT LEAST 2 scum in

Jamie Macca Yav rdr

Voting outside this pool tomorrow would be suboptimal (44% v >= 50%).

People advocating voting outside this group should be viewed with great suspicion.

Jamie is likely town for the way he handled HB try, plus he has less chance to be scum, so he shouldn't be in this pool.

Fair

[damo666]

If a town member has bins suggest watching one of Macca Yav rdr.

If a town member has a healing crystal me or darg. Take your pick.

Why you think you are a town clear? D1 RB that could have been used on Vecna as no item was claimed?

Ok

[celaph]

@food, I've seen your posts and in line with Chaqa's recommendation will respond at EoN.

[celaph]

I'm sorry for being awol everyone, I was playing Dip all day yesterday and the tourney kept me up until 4am. I did win though, so I am really not that apologetic

I was going to try to catch up before getting some things done today, but I see that Hamilton is the werewolf and today's vote seems decided, so I will do that this evening.

Congrats!

[celaph]

Scum have no day chat so multiple (3+) bussing seems highly unlikely.

Therefore we can assume AT LEAST 2 scum in

Jamie Macca Yav rdr

Voting outside this pool tomorrow would be suboptimal (44% v >= 50%).

People advocating voting outside this group should be viewed with great suspicion.

Jamie is likely town for the way he handled HB try, plus he has less chance to be scum, so he shouldn't be in this pool.

I agree with rdr on this point and I think he looks good for trying to narrow a pool that he's also in.

[celaph]

I get this nagging feeling food is the deep threat

I've been scumreading food since forever

If food is scum this game is over. I would never push his kill, he is the one doing most effort and it doesn't look like scum effort.

+1

[damo666]

Scum have no day chat so multiple (3+) bussing seems highly unlikely.

Therefore we can assume AT LEAST 2 scum in

Jamie Macca Yav rdr

Voting outside this pool tomorrow would be suboptimal (44% v >= 50%).

People advocating voting outside this group should be viewed with great suspicion.

Jamie is likely town for the way he handled HB try, plus he has less chance to be scum, so he shouldn't be in this pool.

I agree with rdr on this point and I think he looks good for trying to narrow a pool that he's also in.

So did I

[Jamiet99uk]

Dear scum room.
If you a) tell me who you want me to scan and b) do not roll lock me I will follow your advice.

So everyone tell me who to investigate.

Why would they do that?

[Jamiet99uk]

Why is chat dead

Nobody talking in your QT huh?

[Bonatogether]

Why is chat dead

Nobody talking in your QT huh?

Naw

[TheMadMonarch]

I think it certainly is a case, and one perhaps worthy of causing change in thought.



I started with a scumread on bona. This switched to town to to his ongoing handling of the darg claim. It took guts to go against the town like that, and I liked that someone had agreed with me.

To find out now that is was to "protect darg", is a bit of a let down.

I agree with your sentiment that it did not seem like he was softing cop. That came to appear when people kept asking him if he was secretly the cop, giving reason to his suspicion, but he flat out denies these claims.

I don't plan on claiming cop

From my perspective, this "I was trying to softclaim" comes of as weak and seeming to be trying to cover his back. All in all, I think less of him after than before.

TL;DR I would be willing to vote for Bona tomorrow.

I was trying to be coy about it >:(

Being blatant means scum wouldn't have believed me.

But you were so coy, that scum probably missed it.