MAFIA 66: The Battle for Olympus - Game Thread [hidden]

[Chaqa]

What is it that you're seeing? isn't a very compelling argument.

That whole reads list just read poorly. No exact detail.

Well that's incredibly lazy and makes me think you're setting up a way to jump onto a wagon that has momentum.

##Vote celaph

[kgray]

Yes. Damo I am pretty sure. Maniac somehow improved a bit, so maybe he is town. But your readlist and an opportunistic vote on me while also buddying Brain so you can jump on Celaph wagon if needed made me have a pretty solid scumread of you.
Flum I really don´t know, he got a pass from bein a sub, but done nothing today. Great candidate to be shot if somehow there is a gun or to be cop scanned.

This is almost exactly how I feel about Bona right now. Doesn't hurt that he can't explain his townread of my biggest scumread, and is avoiding questions about it.

##vote bona

I think kgray is town and all but I don't like the move from one vanity wagon to another. Looks fake.

I'd rather it not be a vanity wagon. Want to join me?

[dargorygel]

I don't get why you would ever waste the RB on someome you're killing.

One reason: to stop the target from using a power before they die.

Hmm...

I have a theory now.

What if they intended to Janitor Vecna, and their Janitor got roleblocked?

Jamie or Damo

Yeah... Pretty sure that's been suggested.

[kgray]

That whole reads list just read poorly. No exact detail.

Well that's incredibly lazy and makes me think you're setting up a way to jump onto a wagon that has momentum.

##Vote celaph

Oh wow, he did that thing that I said would be scummy, no way scum ever does this! town!chaqa confirmed.

[Chaqa]

One reason: to stop the target from using a power before they die.

Hmm...

I have a theory now.

What if they intended to Janitor Vecna, and their Janitor got roleblocked?

Jamie or Damo

Yeah... Pretty sure that's been suggested.

Pfooey.

[damo666]

Surely scumManiac would have claimed missingPR rather than VT?

Only discussing Jamie wrt to RB claim and not me is odd. Possible explanations are:

i) Maniac is scum and was therefore conscious of Jamie being RBd
ii) Maniac is town but only noticed Jamie's claim and not mine (possible as he seems obsessed with J for some reason).

Perhaps Town RBer should say who they role blocked. If they roleblocked Jamie that gets rid of option i) above

You want a PR to claim over this??

It's up to the Town RBer.

The role can be as harmful to town as to scum unless they have any knowledge. Looks like they used it by guesswork last night (assuming J not lying).

[Chaqa]

Well that's incredibly lazy and makes me think you're setting up a way to jump onto a wagon that has momentum.

##Vote celaph

Oh wow, he did that thing that I said would be scummy, no way scum ever does this! town!chaqa confirmed.

We might need to play down our scum theater this time, Cagey-Ray, there's no way it would work a second time!!!

[dargorygel]

Hmm...

I have a theory now.

What if they intended to Janitor Vecna, and their Janitor got roleblocked?

Jamie or Damo

Yeah... Pretty sure that's been suggested.

Pfooey.

Possibility, though.

[Chaqa]

Surely scumManiac would have claimed missingPR rather than VT?

Only discussing Jamie wrt to RB claim and not me is odd. Possible explanations are:

i) Maniac is scum and was therefore conscious of Jamie being RBd
ii) Maniac is town but only noticed Jamie's claim and not mine (possible as he seems obsessed with J for some reason).

Perhaps Town RBer should say who they role blocked. If they roleblocked Jamie that gets rid of option i) above

You want a PR to claim over this??

It's up to the Town RBer.

The role can be as harmful to town as to scum unless they have any knowledge. Looks like they used it by guesswork last night (assuming J not lying).

Claims are doubly dangerous in this setup.

Right now, the limited number of claims gives the Watcher, Doctor, etc. the ability to focus on those who have claimed, which will shut down the Werewolf and mafia's ability to kill clears.

If we get more clears, they can begin strategically picking people off.

Claiming is a bad idea.

[brainbomb]

##Call GM

in a hypothetical where a werewolf guessed a kill but the kill was driven, do they have to guess correctly on target A? and the result would kill target B? or would it fail.

Suppose werewolf guesses VT on A
and B actually is a VT but A isnt, the guess would kill B right?

[ghug]

Ghug, what did you pick up on in your interaction with Celaph to make you switch from Maniac to Celaph? Unless it was following brain who had the initial vote.

Brain, you said you explained it already so I won't belabour you to go over it again.

He was asking shitty questions.

[ghug]

I'm not going to have time before deadline to actually read whats going on. The weekend ill be around a bit more.

Can someone tell me if the Maniac wagon shrinking down makes sense?

He made one long and relatively bland post, so no.

[Hellenic Riot]

##Call GM

in a hypothetical where a werewolf guessed a kill but the kill was driven, do they have to guess correctly on target A? and the result would kill target B? or would it fail.

Suppose werewolf guesses VT on A
and B actually is a VT but A isnt, the guess would kill B right?

##GM Note:

From the Setup Document:

Driver + Werewolf:
Werewolves are misunderstood creatures who have a deep inbuilt fear of cars. As a result, a werewolf’s consumption guess CANNOT be driven onto another player. Actions that may target a werewolf will however be driven as usual.

[ghug]

Not interested in taking over this thread again, so here's where I'm at after catching up this morning:

I don't love that Maniac hasn't yet made a post that I've read and hated, because I think he's done that every time he's been town. Otherwise I don't really know what's been so scummy about him. His analysis of the kak vs Hamilton wagons was very similar to what I was thinking about them, but I don't think I get the feeling that he's just mimicking me. But really weird that he addressed Jamie claiming RB but not damo, as others mentioned.

Damo continues to fly below the radar, and I think that's pretty standard scum!damo.

I can't get over Yav's refusal to join Demon's wagon but them him scumreading Rivera for voting *with him* on Hamilton.

Bona's disappeared entirely, and so has my townread of him.

I'm absolutely convinced worcej is scum, and if you just go back and read it's very obvious how he's intentionally manipulating what I said and lying about what happened just to start stuff and distract from the fact that he has (basically) no reads. I was going to try to calmly lay out a case but I can't read through that again atm, and I doubt anyone else wants me to keep talking about it anyway. Plus it seems like his tactic of getting aggressive to get himself townread has worked, so he's not getting traction today regardless.

Brain and kak are clearly town.

Celaph is obviously town, since scum would *never* advise sheeping me. But really, I'm not getting scumvibes from celaph. He was so obviously scummy to me when he was scum and I'm not seeing that here. Also, @brain, I see what you're saying about him feeling like he had to bus Demon when I voted him, but I think it's also possible he just thought I was right? And being hedgy isn't scummy.

I really doubt Macca would stubbornly vote for darg after brain tells them darg's the cop if they're scum. I don't remember them ever really going against the grain as scum, they were generally too timid to even put reads out.

Celaph was obviously scum to you when you were scum? What?

I think Maniac's unobjectionability is excellent evidence on its own that he's scum.

[ghug]

reason to bus increases with value of role. ghug and I have experimented with bussing our best scum roles to mess with towns thought process. it worked great. we both died, and lost badly.

thus ghugs gambit is not yet a common gambit imo. far more common that scum stash their power roles and seek to get cred for them the best

It worked great when I did it to summit.

[Chaqa]

##Call GM

in a hypothetical where a werewolf guessed a kill but the kill was driven, do they have to guess correctly on target A? and the result would kill target B? or would it fail.

Suppose werewolf guesses VT on A
and B actually is a VT but A isnt, the guess would kill B right?

##GM Note:

From the Setup Document:

Driver + Werewolf:
Werewolves are misunderstood creatures who have a deep inbuilt fear of cars. As a result, a werewolf’s consumption guess CANNOT be driven onto another player. Actions that may target a werewolf will however be driven as usual.

So, this makes it seem like there's potential for scum to assist the Werewolf. That's not ideal.

[ghug]

@bona, what are your reads at the moment?

Townread worcej, for having the actually solid idea that darg had to have read the setup and all that
Townread macca off of vibes
brain - eager but wrong in townie ways

scumreading food, for being smart in a very weird way and dumb in a very weird way.
scumreading HR for mushing his group with Chaqa's? Kinda weird since the groups themselves were fine. If HR is scum then there are two or three towns in the smaller group he named (worcej, RDR, macca)
soft scumreading rdr for just not seeming as sly in the way he did in previous games
soft scumreading kgray just for seeming off-beat even though I agree with her on a lot of things. VCA also isn't great.

not sure:
I go back and forth on ghug cause he makes some good points but then goes and does something that makes him look really bad to me. If he's not dead in a while I'm calling this scum.
Chaqa seems different from his last game, but I suppose he'd be like that in all circumstances. Leantown, but if he's not dked soon leanscum
I dunno about kak. The gun business was townie but asking "oh why would I do this if I was scum i'm so town" set off a lot of alarm bells for me.

Stop putting links in posts.

[Chaqa]

What's wrong with links in posts? I like it, it helps find the relevant post more easily.

@Bona - I was the one who said that about Darg and the setup, not worcej.

[kgray]

Celaph was obviously scum to you when you were scum? What?

I think Maniac's unobjectionability is excellent evidence on its own that he's scum.

Yeah Bona already called me on that, I should have specified pre-EoD2-buddying.

How sure are you about Maniac?

[foodcoats]

This is almost exactly how I feel about Bona right now. Doesn't hurt that he can't explain his townread of my biggest scumread, and is avoiding questions about it.

##vote bona

I think kgray is town and all but I don't like the move from one vanity wagon to another. Looks fake.

I'd rather it not be a vanity wagon. Want to join me?

Ha! Well, I don't think it will get there in 3.5 hours with the state of the wagons. We'll see.

(... and there's still just enough doubt in my mind that if I could only DK one of them, it would be celaph over bona. And damo over bona, as well.)