MAFIA 66: The Battle for Olympus - Game Thread [hidden]

[damo666]

I just thought this was damo being damo

He typically moves his vote around a lot and uses it as a form to leverage response from people.

did you ask him why he didn't do his usual stuff?

@damo why didn't you do your usual stuff with voting many different people? is it actually your ususal stuff or is worcej misremembering/misleading?

I missed most of D1. Simple as that.

[damo666]

##vote rdr

[damo666]

Reasons for no gunshot

Vecna was RBd => Jamie lying scum
Gun not yet fired (most probable reason)
Vecna made something else?
Vecna failed to invent/give - can be ignored.

I hard claim no item.

[TheMadMonarch]

Ok, I'm back. There is about a hundred pages, so I probably won't be seen for a while. I might watch the most recent page, so @ me if you have a question.

This is my only report for now, from looking at the bot:
1. We got Demon. Yay!
2. We lost Venca. Not yay.
3. We get Flum. Maybe yay?

What makes you want to get Flum?

I meant that: We get to play with Flum, I think I remember him being good, and (based entirely on chance) he's probably town.

[celaph]

FWIW I will only vote from the following:

Yav
rdr
Karrot
Macca
worcej
Chaqa

Of these Chaqa stands out as the only one who was on Demon yesterday. Has your read of him changed from N1 when you had him as a cautious town lean?

I missed that
*looks at page 69 to damo's reads* ... "Chaqa - probtown but does like a bus so townlean with caution."

well, he actually mentioned the bus so I wouldn't think damo would think the way you describe it. Was this a try to throw shade? Do I interpret too much into that? It first looked like celaph trying to solve but the second look make me question that strongly.

Damo obviously thought Chaqa warranted a cautious townlean N1. He then includes Chaqa on a might kill list. My question, is if in the intermediate 50 or so pages, has his justification changed.

My bigger concern with Damo and the driving motivation behind the question is that he hasn't posted any reads outside that one list N1. The only thing has has done is the "I'll vote from these people" list that he posted today. (Side note: his more recent vote is on Maniac who wasn't on the list).

Secondly, the timing on his N1 reads list feels unnatural to me. He posted it 6 hours before EoN which seems odd given that he was active later that night. More interestingly, he also posted it less than an hour after responding to brain's criticism that he hadn't mentioned most of the people in the game and took care to respond to mention everyone (except flum) including people like Jamie and ghug on which he had nothing to say.

[celaph]

can some 5 people please vote macca who arent on these two lead wagons?

they needs to do something too

[celaph]

This may be a stupid question but do Mafia have a roleblock?

Also for those looking for a D1 busser, sure a busser could exist. The vote count at the end was DemonRHK 7, Kak 4, HB 3, so unless Kak and HB are scum then DemonRHK gets saved if there are two scum on his wagon.

So assuming 0 or 1 busser we have scum on demonRHK could be 1/6

And non-bussers mafia are 3 from the remaining twelve players. Much more chance of finding scum here even if we throw a dart.

We can find any bussers later.

I'm aware that you'll all think I'm saying this to save myself, but you should all know it makes sense. Ask yourselves what you'll do if I flip town? Will you keep going through DemonRHK voters?

This is interesting from Maniac. He has a decent point about one busser only. Also the way Maniac is acting, in particular seeming kind of excited and specifically entering saying he “had a reason to waste time” playing this game and is now kind of walking away and not fighting for his spot and says he DOESN’T have time, makes me think he is the WW. It seems like a particularly hard 3P that is actually just designed to prevent massclaim and I totally could see someone being frustrated by drawing it.

In my analysis then celaph was the busser, although he probably didn’t intend to and got stuck. damo is weirdly lurky, and in general I’m finding the conversation for the last few hours feels like town arguing with itself, so I’d say mafia is predominantly in lurk mode, possibly lacking confidence. damo is one other scum. HB would be a third, he’s said weird wishy washy nothingness. Not sure on the last.

Can you elaborate on why you think I was bussing, in particular why you think I didn't intend to and got stuck?

[rdrivera2005]

Feels good to not wake up dead.

So a few thoughts...

Firstly Jamie’s claim to have been roleblocked is interesting. The possibilities are:
(1) He is telling the truth and scum think he is a PR
(2) He is telling the truth and we have a Roleblocker who thinks Jamie is scum
(3) He is lying (and therefore likely scum).
Taking these in order on night one how usual is it for scum to RB the person they kill? They have clearly killed Vecna for a reason (assuming it’s not a freak werewolf kill) and that is likely to be that they suspect he was a PR. If they suspected him of being the inventor then they would almost certainly have RB him to ensure nothing useful fell into town hands. Unless one of vecna’s inventions gets claimed and used, I’m leaning towards option (1) being unlikely.

Jamie could’ve been blocked by the town roleblocker which would tell us two things (a) we have a town roleblocker and (b) scum have a janitor which raises the question why wasn’t vecna janitored? Maybe Jamie is the janitor but got roleblocked, maybe scum wanted to keep janitor hidden? I think keeping janitor hidden is unlikely, scum benefit massively from cleaning up the first nightkill. So this leaves us with the possibility that Jamie is telling the truth about being roleblocked and that increases the likelihood that he is the janitor.

If Jamie wasn’t roleblocked then he is lying scum. I doubt any town player lies about a roleblock when there is a high probability that we have a town roleblocker in play.

Tl:Dr on that bit – I think Jamie could be the janitor.

Looking now at some VCA.
For me the interesting move is DemonRHK’s vote on Kak. Yes it’s possible that DemonRHK, Kak and Hamilton Brian are all scum and three lead wagons going into the last half hour of D1, but that’s really unlikely scum would have allowed that to happen. So the likelihood is that DemonRHK got to choose between 2 townies or 1 town and 1 scum counter-wagons. Assuming Kak and HB are both town then why choose Kak? My instinct is that DemonRHK wants to save himself and would move to where he stood the best chance of survival. If I was scum I’d look at who else is voting for the counter=wagons. If the kak voters (demo, dargo, and BB) were dominated by scum, then I don’t think demonrhk joins that wagon as he couldn’t rely on other scum joining him. Likewise he would avoid the HB wagon if yav, worc and Rdriveria were dominated by scum. As it happens he did avoid the HB wagon which gives town points to Demo, Dargo and BB and scum points to yav, worce and rdriveria. (more scum points for Rdriveria for being the 3rd person on that wagon)

For now I’m town reading all the final DemonRHK voters. There will come a time when any remaining players will need looking at closely and the question asked why they are still alive late game, but for now they all get town cred.

The other two players not on the main wagons that haven’t already been mentioned are ghug and Macca. If they are scum they haven’t bussed or lifted a finger to save their scumbuddy. Both of these inactions could be scum indicators. I also have an aversion to people who don’t make decisions at EOD.
Jamie also gets a few scum points for announcing he wouldn’t be on EOD, could be a scum signal that he wasn’t to be relied on to save DemonRHK. I don’t mind Jamie being absent for his B’day (Happy belated B’day Jamie) but I didn’t like his announcement.

Whilst I’m giving all demonRHK voters a pass for now, Chaqa seems the most suspicios to me.

So putting all that together me scum ---town list is.
Rdriveria
Jamie
WorceJ
Yav
Ghug
Macca
BrainBomb
Dargorygel
Damo
Chaqa
Celaph
Bona
Kgray
Foodcoats
HB
Kak
Maniac

I know someone will say that I was scum reading BB last night. That was more to do with his position on Kak’s wagon, I’ve reassessed and now think that isn’t scum majorly scum indicative.

I don’t know where I’d place Flum in my list.

##vote Rdriveria

Oh by the way, I hardclaim VT and don’t mind dying. I seem to be better at solving the puzzle than convincing others that I’m right so killing me and then following my reads isn’t the worst play ever for town.

If I do die also consider who is voting for me. I haven’t been active and that allows lazy scum to jump on the ‘maniac is lazy lurking scum’ bandwagon. Treat my killers with utmost caution.

You are better then this, hardclaiming VT with a werewolf is utterly stupid.

Also, why you didn´t adrress Damo´s claim to also have been roleblocked on your Jamiet analisys? Are you scum mates and you missed this info?

[rdrivera2005]

##vote rdr

What a surprise.

[rdrivera2005]

##vote rdr

What a surprise.

[celaph]

celaph there is a reason I think you are scum. its actually very hard to explain but at one point you apologized to me for coming after me and I think it tells me that you feel guilty trying to discredit me because you like my play usually. And because you are scum it was a moment of wondering if you had gone too far.

I think the part of your play that I've liked the most is your tendency to fall over as scum really easily.

More seriously, why do you think I like your play usually? Because I enjoy playing with you, but I don't recall seeing a great bb game so far. I apologized because I was afraid of being mean and I know my tone hasn't always come across most clearly.

[foodcoats]

that's my main reason why I think there might be one lying about being roleblocked.

Also, if scum got a gun, optimal play seems to hold it for late game... no?

Yes, so if you believe this then do you think we should look at who Vecna was obv!towning?

... no? What, we’re we going to decide Vecna was DEFINITELY not RBd and DEFINITELY made a gun and DEFINITELY gave it someone he read as obvtown in the thread AND that person MUST be scum because no one has fired a shot yet?

I’m just saying we shouldn’t come to too many conclusions on an item that may or may not exist. As in, I’m saying the opposite thing from what you’re leaning at.

[worcej]

Reasons for no gunshot

Vecna was RBd => Jamie lying scum
Gun not yet fired (most probable reason)
Vecna made something else?
Vecna failed to invent/give - can be ignored.

I hard claim no item.

Which if these do you think is most likely?

[worcej]

Also, if scum got a gun, optimal play seems to hold it for late game... no?

Yes, so if you believe this then do you think we should look at who Vecna was obv!towning?

... no? What, we’re we going to decide Vecna was DEFINITELY not RBd and DEFINITELY made a gun and DEFINITELY gave it someone he read as obvtown in the thread AND that person MUST be scum because no one has fired a shot yet?

I’m just saying we shouldn’t come to too many conclusions on an item that may or may not exist. As in, I’m saying the opposite thing from what you’re leaning at.

Okay, I blame my tiredness for why I got this wrong.

[celaph]

@bona, what are your reads at the moment?

[Maniac]

Snip

You are better then this, hardclaiming VT with a werewolf is utterly stupid.

Also, why you didn´t adrress Damo´s claim to also have been roleblocked on your Jamiet analisys? Are you scum mates and you missed this info?

You’re right, off course, hard claiming is stupid. I was thinking in the context of me dying anyway, but I shouldn’t have gotten ahead of myself. I hereby retract my hard claim.

You’re also right that I haven’t considered Damo’s claim. My bad. I’ll reassess how that affects things.

The only thing you’re wrong about is that I’m scum. I’m not.

[foodcoats]

Feels good to not wake up dead.

So a few thoughts...

Firstly Jamie’s claim to have been roleblocked is interesting. The possibilities are:
(1) He is telling the truth and scum think he is a PR
(2) He is telling the truth and we have a Roleblocker who thinks Jamie is scum
(3) He is lying (and therefore likely scum).
Taking these in order on night one how usual is it for scum to RB the person they kill? They have clearly killed Vecna for a reason (assuming it’s not a freak werewolf kill) and that is likely to be that they suspect he was a PR. If they suspected him of being the inventor then they would almost certainly have RB him to ensure nothing useful fell into town hands. Unless one of vecna’s inventions gets claimed and used, I’m leaning towards option (1) being unlikely.

Jamie could’ve been blocked by the town roleblocker which would tell us two things (a) we have a town roleblocker and (b) scum have a janitor which raises the question why wasn’t vecna janitored? Maybe Jamie is the janitor but got roleblocked, maybe scum wanted to keep janitor hidden? I think keeping janitor hidden is unlikely, scum benefit massively from cleaning up the first nightkill. So this leaves us with the possibility that Jamie is telling the truth about being roleblocked and that increases the likelihood that he is the janitor.

If Jamie wasn’t roleblocked then he is lying scum. I doubt any town player lies about a roleblock when there is a high probability that we have a town roleblocker in play.

Tl:Dr on that bit – I think Jamie could be the janitor.

Looking now at some VCA.
For me the interesting move is DemonRHK’s vote on Kak. Yes it’s possible that DemonRHK, Kak and Hamilton Brian are all scum and three lead wagons going into the last half hour of D1, but that’s really unlikely scum would have allowed that to happen. So the likelihood is that DemonRHK got to choose between 2 townies or 1 town and 1 scum counter-wagons. Assuming Kak and HB are both town then why choose Kak? My instinct is that DemonRHK wants to save himself and would move to where he stood the best chance of survival. If I was scum I’d look at who else is voting for the counter=wagons. If the kak voters (demo, dargo, and BB) were dominated by scum, then I don’t think demonrhk joins that wagon as he couldn’t rely on other scum joining him. Likewise he would avoid the HB wagon if yav, worc and Rdriveria were dominated by scum. As it happens he did avoid the HB wagon which gives town points to Demo, Dargo and BB and scum points to yav, worce and rdriveria. (more scum points for Rdriveria for being the 3rd person on that wagon)

For now I’m town reading all the final DemonRHK voters. There will come a time when any remaining players will need looking at closely and the question asked why they are still alive late game, but for now they all get town cred.

The other two players not on the main wagons that haven’t already been mentioned are ghug and Macca. If they are scum they haven’t bussed or lifted a finger to save their scumbuddy. Both of these inactions could be scum indicators. I also have an aversion to people who don’t make decisions at EOD.
Jamie also gets a few scum points for announcing he wouldn’t be on EOD, could be a scum signal that he wasn’t to be relied on to save DemonRHK. I don’t mind Jamie being absent for his B’day (Happy belated B’day Jamie) but I didn’t like his announcement.

Whilst I’m giving all demonRHK voters a pass for now, Chaqa seems the most suspicios to me.

So putting all that together me scum ---town list is.
Rdriveria
Jamie
WorceJ
Yav
Ghug
Macca
BrainBomb
Dargorygel
Damo
Chaqa
Celaph
Bona
Kgray
Foodcoats
HB
Kak
Maniac

I know someone will say that I was scum reading BB last night. That was more to do with his position on Kak’s wagon, I’ve reassessed and now think that isn’t scum majorly scum indicative.

I don’t know where I’d place Flum in my list.

##vote Rdriveria

Oh by the way, I hardclaim VT and don’t mind dying. I seem to be better at solving the puzzle than convincing others that I’m right so killing me and then following my reads isn’t the worst play ever for town.

If I do die also consider who is voting for me. I haven’t been active and that allows lazy scum to jump on the ‘maniac is lazy lurking scum’ bandwagon. Treat my killers with utmost caution.

Interesting point that Jamie or damo could be Janitor who was RBd. Why don’t you consider it possible damo was the Janitor though Maniac? Why focus on Jamie?

This amount of work after so little reminds me exactly of how Demon behaved as his wagon amped up unfortunately.

[foodcoats]

I like celaph’s participation, he will at least be fun to play with. Damo usually has stronger play, seems to be making silly posts that don’t display any depth, rando unexplained rdr vote, and I believe he may be the Janitor and was blocked. Not just from Maniac’s argument but another clue on the text but don’t want to accidentally out anything yet.

Also interested to see what damo does if pressured.

##VOTE damo666

[brainbomb]

Man, working GY's lets me have more interaction with people I normally cannot live do it with.

I look forward to spewing with Vecna at some point tonight.

spew on little buddy

I do think worcej honestly was glad to work nights so he could interact with vecna

and vecna seemed to like worcej right away

[foodcoats]

@Maniac, if you really are VT, please keep playing and providing your reads and thoughts.