Mafia 65: Dreamland II [Hidden]

[Jamiet99uk]

I suspect Jamie you want to play the town hero and think being clear somehow equates to being right. You’ve now delayed the game past the safe time to hammer and we have all the same issues that we had before. That is poor town play.

There were important questions being asked and/or discussed and you were absent from proceedings. Kindly refrain from being such a prick.

[Jamiet99uk]

Maniac thinks the best way to engage me and change my mind is to insult and belittle me.

##END

[Jamiet99uk]

@Ghug:
@Rdrivera:

Summarise why you think Maniac is town, in no more than 250 words, please.

[Jamiet99uk]

What??! You say that predicting the final four of Vecna/me/rdr/Ghug is implying Ghug is a town lean? Have a word with yourself Jamie. If you can’t read and understand what is on the page there is little point me writing.

Just to play this back - that wasn't what you said.

You worded it as "me/Vecna/Rdrivera and Ghug", not "me/Vecna/Rdrivera/Ghug".

That reads as if "me/Vecna/Rdrivera" is one grouping, and "Ghug" is another grouping on his own, so that at the finish line you were anticipating the last two townies would be Ghug, plus one of the other three people listed.

If you want people to read and understand you, you should learn to write well, instead of shouting rudely at people who misunderstand your sloppy writing.

[Jamiet99uk]

@Ghug: Looking back I notice that you did not mention Rdrivera at all, until today. That's rather odd. Comment?

[dargorygel]

The Counting of the Votes on Day 9, the second such counting.
Ghug (2) Maniac, rdrivera2005
Rdrivera2005 (1) ghug
Maniac (1) Jamiet99uk

Maniac and Jamiet99uk are endvoting, although for different candidates

Presently if you google ‘who is winning the vote count,’ the answer is ghug.

Just under ten hours left.

[Jamiet99uk]

So here is Ghug's opinion of Rdrivera:

rd's response is more what I'd expect here from scum. He's saying the right things about what we need to do and then waiting to see where things fall. When I look at the rest of his game, I see some milquetoast hunting in the first few days, a lot of back and forth with brain that mysteriously evaporated when brain fell off the wagon, a constant scumread of worcej, and no interactions at all with Bunny and thamrick. The worcej scumread is super weird, too. It's always second or third in a list, and there's never any elaboration, push, or questioning. It's a textbook lazy bus. There are things I do like from him, but he's entirely capable of competently fooling people, and he ends up undoing many of the bigger ones. The brain and worcej pushes fell flat when it actually came down to it, and his reaction to the whole thamrick scan was to push against killing him, which on the surface is something I think town are more likely to do. Once brain died, though, he was all on board the "thamrick must be the alien" train, and he spent time pushing Jamie to scan thamrick, which would have both preserved tham for a day while we waited and given him a good way to back out of that read and into a full townread.

Here is Maniac's opinion of Rdrivera:

Rdriveria took a decision at the start of the game that he couldn’t anticipate would have the significance I’m placing on it. I strongly feel in a game with an alien, scum day chat and random numbers in the satellite QT that any player rolling scum would either stay hidden and observe or retain their anonymity. Now I could be very wrong about that, of course I could. But I don’t think I am.

Rdriveria took a decision at the start of the game that he couldn’t anticipate would have the significance I’m placing on it. I strongly feel in a game with an alien, scum day chat and random numbers in the satellite QT that any player rolling scum would either stay hidden and observe or retain their anonymity. Now I could be very wrong about that, of course I could. But I don’t think I am.

Ghug's scumread of Rdrivera is based primarily on interactions with the other scum and his generally "lazy" play.

Maniac's townread of Rdrivera is based primarily on the fact that he identified himself in the walkie-talkie QT, which Maniac says he thinks scum would not do.

Hmm.

[Jamiet99uk]

Presently if you google ‘who is winning the vote count,’ the answer is ghug.

Actually the top Google result for that is "Joe Biden".

[Maniac]

What??! You say that predicting the final four of Vecna/me/rdr/Ghug is implying Ghug is a town lean? Have a word with yourself Jamie. If you can’t read and understand what is on the page there is little point me writing.

Just to play this back - that wasn't what you said.

You worded it as "me/Vecna/Rdrivera and Ghug", not "me/Vecna/Rdrivera/Ghug".

That reads as if "me/Vecna/Rdrivera" is one grouping, and "Ghug" is another grouping on his own, so that at the finish line you were anticipating the last two townies would be Ghug, plus one of the other three people listed.

If you want people to read and understand you, you should learn to write well, instead of shouting rudely at people who misunderstand your sloppy writing.

I haven't insulted anyone. One can point out bad play without that being an insult. You on the other hand have called me a prick.

Which ever way you cut it saying "me/vecna/Rdriveria and Ghug" in no way implies I think Ghug is town. If you think I'm putting him in a town group, why am I in the other group?

I'm telling you straight if you think the 'and' in my sentence is in anyway significant, you will rightly be laughed out of town. You are so far off the mark and can't see it, I don't know if that's because as a clear you're upset people won't sheep you or if hubris is clouding your judgement. IDK. I just know we are on the cusp of potentially winning and you ignore the big stuff to focus on the completely inconsequential.

[Jamiet99uk]

Once again Maniac paints a false narrative.

Where am I asking people to sheep me?

[Jamiet99uk]

I haven't insulted anyone. One can point out bad play without that being an insult. You on the other hand have called me a prick.

You are being arrogant and rude, as you often are.

You accused me of "bad town play" because we missed your "deadline" of 11pm last night. If you thought this deadline was so important, why did you disappear from the thread for an extended period of time, while debate was still very much ongoing?

Saying "oh hey it's really important we make a decision by this deadline" and then waltzing off and not contributing further to the discussion that might have helped town decide by that deadline is bad town play.

[Jamiet99uk]

For all Maniac's conceited attitude annoys me, there is some merit to his comments about Rdrivera.

Rdrivera often quite non-committal and slightly disengaged, as either alignment but particularly as scum. Indeed that's the general type of play Ghug is accusing him of here, as part of the reason for scumreading him. But then, in that case, why does disengaged, non-committal scum!Rdrivera confidently identify himself in the Walkie Talkie QT?

This is a fair question.

[Jamiet99uk]

For all Maniac's conceited attitude annoys me, there is some merit to his comments about Rdrivera.

Rdrivera is often quite non-committal and slightly disengaged, as either alignment but particularly as scum. Indeed that's the general type of play Ghug is accusing him of here, as part of the reason for scumreading him. But then, in that case, why does disengaged, non-committal scum!Rdrivera confidently identify himself in the Walkie Talkie QT?

This is a fair question.

EBWOP

[Jamiet99uk]

Very well.

Ghug, you invited me to re-consider Rdrivera.

I have done as you asked.

As a result I am going to eliminate Rdrivera from my suspicions.

It's either Maniac or Ghug.

[Maniac]

Very well.

Ghug, you invited me to re-consider Rdrivera.

I have done as you asked.

As a result I am going to eliminate Rdrivera from my suspicions.

It's either Maniac or Ghug.

This is really good progress. We now end up killing me and I can troll Jamie for awful play, or we kill Ghug and probably win.

@Jamie, now that you have discounted Rdriveria from your kill target, do you give more credence to his reads on me and Ghug?

[rdrivera2005]

@Ghug:
@Rdrivera:

Summarise why you think Maniac is town, in no more than 250 words, please.

I won't need or be able to use more then 250 words. My main reason is elimination, it's either him or Ghug and I don't have the usual feeling of town Ghug on this game. I first thought he was the Alien but I think now he is scum.

I had a townread on Maniac because of our QT and how he get upfront on identifying himself and making a voting block. I had some suspicion after Jasnah death and Brain telling she was Shaman. But after re-reading the QT and decoding messages written in some weird language I couldn't find any crumb. Also, Fox being Shamam made this a non sense. We are pretty set to have a 3 player block voting either Vecna or Fox, Maniac even suggested a code to define the target. Why scum Maniac would target Jasnah that night? It could be a brilliant plan but it's not what I see.

[Jamiet99uk]

@Jamie, now that you have discounted Rdriveria from your kill target, do you give more credence to his reads on me and Ghug?

Having just read Rdrivera's most recent post I can answer this question as follows:

No.

[Jamiet99uk]

So Maniac and Rdrivera are both townreading each other for things related to the Walkie Talkie QT.

Is this good reasoning or could there be buddying / Stockholm syndrome in play?

[Maniac]

So Maniac and Rdrivera are both townreading each other for things related to the Walkie Talkie QT.

Is this good reasoning or could there be buddying / Stockholm syndrome in play?

The walkie-talkie QT has 105 messages, 15 from admins, 32 were deleted. Early ones were messing around and late on rdriveria and I check in to see we are not camped. It’s a million miles form Stockholm syndrome which is in itself pseudoscience and would apply here anyway. I think both of us are taking it into account where it’s relevant.

[Maniac]

So Maniac and Rdrivera are both townreading each other for things related to the Walkie Talkie QT.

Is this good reasoning or could there be buddying / Stockholm syndrome in play?

The walkie-talkie QT has 105 messages, 15 from admins, 32 were deleted. Early ones were messing around and late on rdriveria and I check in to see we are not camped. It’s a million miles form Stockholm syndrome which is in itself pseudoscience and would apply here anyway. I think both of us are taking it into account where it’s relevant.

*wouldn’t apply